Whose Side Are You On, God's Or That Of Morality?

[Faithofchristian]

What kind of question is this? Large reptilian creatures that roamed the planet hundreds of millions of years ago, those that died and were preserved and in various conditions survived to be unearthed later. You think they were put there?

I ask the question again, I'll make it a little more clear, at what time period of the earth history, did the dinosaur bones come from.

 

[sojourner]

So would you agree that there are some believers out there taking the bible's metaphors as fact. and then spreading those metaphors as facts.

I had a conversation a when I was back in the states, the conversation ended up talking about dinosaurs, and how this woman, had to delicately explain to her children how dinosaurs worked within "creation." About how they couldn't buy most books that had conflicting information with their version of the way the earth came to be.

Their kids are going to have a pretty rude awakening, unless hey stay off the internet, never leave their town, or never go to a library.

Yup. Makes me sick.

I’m a nice guy, quiet, respectful. I don’t drink or do drugs. When I was in college I had shoulder length hair. One day I had to run some documents over to the Christian radio station on the BBC campus (Jerry Falwell’s funny school). I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. I got lost; couldn’t find the radio station. There was this girl sitting on a bench reading a book. I approached her, said, “Excuse me, where’s the radio station?” She looked up, her eyes got real big, she stammered, jumped up, grabbed her books, and literally Ran. Away. from me.

These people are waaaay too sheltered and indoctrinated.

 

[sojourner]

Maybe you should understand, It's people who in slaved other people.
God just set down as to how a slave is to be treated.
Man makes a slave and that slave is for life.

But according to God's way, at the 7th year that slave is to set free.

If a person however sales themselves into slavery that's not God. But the person who sells themselves into slavery.

If you chose to sell yourself into slavery that's not God's fault, that's your fault.

If a Nation takes it's people and sells them into slavery, that's the fault of that nation and people for letting that nation sell it's people into slavery.
That's not God's fault, But the people of that nation for letting that nation sell them into slavery and that person for selling themselves into slavery.

But you seem to want to blame God, for everything that humans do.

So how is it God's fault, that a person sales themselves into slavery.

So, if a person murders someone, that’s not God, that’s that person. Yet the Bible has God condemn murder, not just give instructions on how the murder is to take place.

I’m on your side here, but this is a poor argument.

 

[sojourner]

I ask the question again, I'll make it a little more clear, at what time period of the earth history, did the dinosaur bones come from.

Way longer than the creationist’s 6000 years ago.

 

[Muffled]

I believe I am on God's side. Morality can be pretty bad.

 

[Muffled]

Shouldn't the OP title read "Jehovah" as the thread is specifically against that god rather than reading a generalized, non-descript "god" that can mean anything from Zeus to the universe?

Of course. I would be against Zeus. His morality is not so wonderful.

 

[Muffled]

I'm on God's side. I think we, as humans, tend to think way too much of ourselves, our own importance, our dignity and our "rights" than we should, most (if not all) of the time. Being allowed to stare our human selfishness in the face from time to time (along with the occasional genocide, natural disasters, and loss of our firstborn) help to keep things in perspective as to what we actually "deserve."

I believe I am not going to get what I deserve; thank God for His grace.

 

[Kapalika]

And further more by quoting just that sentence, and not the statements afterwards, you are taking it out of context, did I suggest we completely abandon these people? No, I did not. I said they should have zero say on policy they clearly have zero interest being informed on.

Perhaps it is too subtle for you, but I was implying that your statement resembled a 'cleansing' so to speak. I know what followed afterwards clarified it but that doesn't stop the metaphor itself from being problematic and broadly sweeping.

And everyone should have a say on policy but that doesn't mean everyone should have what they have to say be listened to.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So, if a person murders someone, that’s not God, that’s that person. Yet the Bible has God condemn murder, not just give instructions on how the murder is to take place.

I’m on your side here, but this is a poor argument.

No one said anything about murder, outside of you coming in the middle of the conversation, about slavery.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Way longer than the creationist’s 6000 years ago.

The creationists who say, that the earth is only 6000 years old, They listen to much to man's teachings.
There is no where in the bible that says or States or Confirm's the earth as being only 6000 years old.

 

[sojourner]

No one said anything about murder, outside of you coming in the middle of the conversation, about slavery.

The example shows the flaw in your logic.

 

[sojourner]

The creationists who say, that the earth is only 6000 years old, They listen to much to man's teachings.
There is no where in the bible that says or States or Confirm's the earth as being only 6000 years old.

I agree, although creationists will tell you that they derive the date from biblical clues, such as genealogies. Creationists then twist science to fit their “biblical” world view.

 

[Skwim]

I believe I am on God's side. Morality can be pretty bad.

And god can't? Oh, of course not. No matter what god does it's good because he's god. Christians have decided he can't do anything bad by default; therefore, keeping and beating slaves is moral because god condones it.

Q. God thinks owning slaves is A-Okay so why don't Christians of today own slaves? I know! I know!

In the USA it was that damn Lincoln fella who screwed it up for everyone. Abraham Lincoln, the god-denier. And to think they erected that huge monument to him in, of all places, America's capitol.

.

 

[Cacotopia]

Perhaps it is too subtle for you, but I was implying that your statement resembled a 'cleansing' so to speak. I know what followed afterwards clarified it but that doesn't stop the metaphor itself from being problematic and broadly sweeping.

And everyone should have a say on policy but that doesn't mean everyone should have what they have to say be listened to.

If so, they should have disclaimers said that they do not care enough to even learn about what policies they are trying to alter.

 

[Cacotopia]

Of course. I would be against Zeus. His morality is not so wonderful.

Zeus' morality is more "real" than a perfect god bending and breaking nearly every single rule it made and still maintaining this aura of perfection. Why follow anything or one that never abides by any law they set forth. The god of the bible is extremely Machiavellian, not a character deserving of any kind of respect only fear.

 

[Cacotopia]

I ask the question again, I'll make it a little more clear, at what time period of the earth history, did the dinosaur bones come from.

From Cretaceous and on, modern birds are considered dinosaurs.

 

[Cacotopia]

Yup. Makes me sick.

I’m a nice guy, quiet, respectful. I don’t drink or do drugs. When I was in college I had shoulder length hair. One day I had to run some documents over to the Christian radio station on the BBC campus (Jerry Falwell’s funny school). I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. I got lost; couldn’t find the radio station. There was this girl sitting on a bench reading a book. I approached her, said, “Excuse me, where’s the radio station?” She looked up, her eyes got real big, she stammered, jumped up, grabbed her books, and literally Ran. Away. from me.

These people are waaaay too sheltered and indoctrinated.

I too live and "edge" lifestyle, although i have chest length hair still, I barely drink and do no drugs. I don't understand un-curious people. "I don't need to know, it's not my business" While that statement can be true, they use it for everything that is not inside their small world. My girlfriend is like this, so I bore her with information about almost everything I read about, to try and drag her in to the world of gathering information and if some question randomly pops up while having a conversation, look it up!

Oh man this happens regularly, but she just stops there and never asks the question she, we have the internet, it's a wonderful time to live in where if you simply want information you can get it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again, i go back on its a regulation, a sign on the body saying the slave wants to remain with his master. All parties involved do in fact consent because they have it done. Even if they dont like it, they do go along with it.

You can't assume consent. If they don't like it, they probably didn't consent to it. Having it done doesn't mean it was consented to.

Remember i said slavery is still happening, it just takes on a different form?

Having a job isn't being a slave. It's nothing like it.

After the ear is pierced, it heals, and its a one time thing and everyone lives hapily ever after.

That's not the point. The point is the blatant and overt violation of bodily autonomy. And I also mentioned circumcision, and foreskins do not heal up like a pierced ear can (hygiene standards weren't nearly as good so piercings wouldn't have been as clean, and even still today infection can be a problem).

Its not just about an eye or a tooth. Thats merely examples. The issue is ANY form of injury. Break a arm, or a leg, stab, ect. These would also qualify the slave to go free. Free BEFORE the 7 year contract is over.

You can cause some pretty serious injury without breaking an arm, stabbing someone, etc. And the policy doesn't forbid injury, it's forbids injury so severe the slave doesn't recover after a few days. That basically means bruises can be excuses, some bones would be ok if they are broken, and even a whipping and stabbing can be recovered from quickly enough if some restraint is applied.

Also if youl notice again. God does not TELL the master he can beat his slave.

The Bible does indicate he says just that when it is said that a master can't beat their slave so severely it kills them or does serious injury but if the slave recovers in a couple days then it's ok because the slave is property.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No. but why do you care so much what I do? Are you about to propose marriage or something?

.

It's inaccurate, misleading, and disingenuous to try to ask if someone is on the side of a very vague and loosely defined concept. Not all gods are equal when it comes to moral character.

 

[Jollybear]

You can't assume consent. If they don't like it, they probably didn't consent to it. Having it done doesn't mean it was consented to.

We know they consented because some "loved" there masters and wanted to stay. That choice to stay was THEIR choice after the contract period was over.

I dont like e logs, but i consent to it in order to drive a truck. Same principle.

Having a job isn't being a slave. It's nothing like it.

Yes, having a job is like being a slave. The only difference is what you call it. There vertually the same when you break it down.

A job, you work for 8 to 12 hours, doing labor or brain work. You get paid money which you then use to pay your shelter and food. You can quit if you like. But, its not without consequences. You need to give a 2 week notice, otherwise using them as a source becomes bad for you. Also if you quit, then medical insurence at a new job can be higher.

A slave, you work for 8 to 12 hours, doing labor work or brain work. You are provided shelter and food. You can quit after your contract is up.

Not all that much different is it?

And its even more similar between those who provide contract work. If they break the contract, lawsuits can be done.

Whats better, wage garnishments or light beatings? Take your pick.

That's not the point. The point is the blatant and overt violation of bodily autonomy. And I also mentioned circumcision, and foreskins do not heal up like a pierced ear can (hygiene standards weren't nearly as good so piercings wouldn't have been as clean, and even still today infection can be a problem).

Do you think the ancients wer stupid people? They wer just as smart as we are. The only difference is we have more knowledge and technology today.

Apparently they did alright circumcising all there baby boys and doing there piercings.

You can cause some pretty serious injury without breaking an arm, stabbing someone, etc. And the policy doesn't forbid injury, it's forbids injury so severe the slave doesn't recover after a few days. That basically means bruises can be excuses, some bones would be ok if they are broken, and even a whipping and stabbing can be recovered from quickly enough if some restraint is applied.

The way i interpret those verses are the owners had a right to do light beatings. God did not tell them to go ahead and do it, but he gave them the right to do it.

The Bible does indicate he says just that when it is said that a master can't beat their slave so severely it kills them or does serious injury but if the slave recovers in a couple days then it's ok because the slave is property.

No, you need to take into account everything.

God told the slave owner to REMEMBER that he was a slave in egypt. God gave rights to the slave owner to punish there slave. God put limits on that punishment. If the limits wer crossed, then the contract was nullified.

Giving a right is not the same as giving an order.

We have a right to free speach, but does government order us to say all kinds of crazy stuff? No. Same principle here.