why a bible?

[sky cake]

Now in all honesty I do not believe in god and the devil, I am tormented with the evil that man inflects on other men in the name of there presumed god. With this understanding I ask these questions, and pose these answers. I am not god, nor do I speack for him, this is meant as a call to reason to all men that would be free of religious oppression, it is sad that a slave loves his chains, and boasts of the ring in his nose.

These questions are interrelated, if you ask one it leads to the others.

Is God revealed only through “ Gods imparted faith?
Is man hopelessly lost with out god revealing himself to man?
Can a man read the bible and believe in god but because god has not revealed himself to that man, that man remains lost?

Is faith, “faith” in the presence of proof?

Is the bible faith’s “proof”?

Can the bible be misinterpreted?

If man can not tell the difference between Satan and god in the absence of godly revelation, and faith often is the result of religious indoctrination, the measuring stick of mans observance, how can man clearly see, with faith or reason, his status with a god that can only be understood in the context what god ascribes to his personal visitations.

There are many way to describe faith. There are many reasons to want faith, but faith in the abstains of a visitation form god is little more than wishful thinking and ritual social group think. To describe any written work that was not passed from god to you directly is subject to misinterpretation.


Answers: conculuson
That the bible is the work of men, and men are subject to deceit, and easily confused.
That if god were real then men cant know him with out gods help, and would be lost to try to understand what the bible means.
That the bible is unnecessary.
That god could in faith reveal himself to each man, and remove a stumbling block to all men, by not having a bible, but offer one that is easly formed to mean anthing.
That the bible acts as proof to religious people, and that that proof damages faith.
That the bible tends to polarizes people into religious social groups.
that the bible becomes an icon, and a symbol, that most religious people replace god with it.
That were reading replaces revelation, and the word that was “in the beginning” is forced to become the “word” the reader interprets.
That if Satan is the father of lies, and the bible can not be understood with out godly revelation, then the bible has only one author, man. That if god can convert without the bible, and religion has to have some form of ‘faith proof” or “sky cake” is not anything that does not pass directly form god to you, subject to misinterpertation
god teach us to fear him is to love him, and offer hell as a punishment when men can’t do anything to avoid it themselves It seems mean and evil and something Satan would do.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Welcome to RF.

 

[sojourner]

Now in all honesty I do not believe in god and the devil, I am tormented with the evil that man inflects on other men in the name of there presumed god. With this understanding I ask these questions, and pose these answers. I am not god, nor do I speack for him, this is meant as a call to reason to all men that would be free of religious oppression, it is sad that a slave loves his chains, and boasts of the ring in his nose.

These questions are interrelated, if you ask one it leads to the others.

Is God revealed only through “ Gods imparted faith?
Is man hopelessly lost with out god revealing himself to man?
Can a man read the bible and believe in god but because god has not revealed himself to that man, that man remains lost?

Is faith, “faith” in the presence of proof?

Is the bible faith’s “proof”?

Can the bible be misinterpreted?

If man can not tell the difference between Satan and god in the absence of godly revelation, and faith often is the result of religious indoctrination, the measuring stick of mans observance, how can man clearly see, with faith or reason, his status with a god that can only be understood in the context what god ascribes to his personal visitations.

There are many way to describe faith. There are many reasons to want faith, but faith in the abstains of a visitation form god is little more than wishful thinking and ritual social group think. To describe any written work that was not passed from god to you directly is subject to misinterpretation.


Answers: conculuson
That the bible is the work of men, and men are subject to deceit, and easily confused.
That if god were real then men cant know him with out gods help, and would be lost to try to understand what the bible means.
That the bible is unnecessary.
That god could in faith reveal himself to each man, and remove a stumbling block to all men, by not having a bible, but offer one that is easly formed to mean anthing.
That the bible acts as proof to religious people, and that that proof damages faith.
That the bible tends to polarizes people into religious social groups.
that the bible becomes an icon, and a symbol, that most religious people replace god with it.
That were reading replaces revelation, and the word that was “in the beginning” is forced to become the “word” the reader interprets.
That if Satan is the father of lies, and the bible can not be understood with out godly revelation, then the bible has only one author, man. That if god can convert without the bible, and religion has to have some form of ‘faith proof” or “sky cake” is not anything that does not pass directly form god to you, subject to misinterpertation
god teach us to fear him is to love him, and offer hell as a punishment when men can’t do anything to avoid it themselves It seems mean and evil and something Satan would do.

Wow! You asked the questions, and you answered them! What's left to debate???

 

[sky cake]

i win!!!!

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Do you?
What was your prize?

 

[sky cake]

lets see an i love jesus sticker, and some strawberry milk. no wate that was proving that jesus slept with his own mother.

i did not really get anything this time, they must be all out of gifts.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Silly contests...

 

[DonSinger]

its sad that you would go through so much effort to prove our intelligence as human beings, just to knock it away in an instant.

lets see an i love jesus sticker, and some strawberry milk. no wate that was proving that jesus slept with his own mother.

i did not really get anything this time, they must be all out of gifts.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

But showing that we can make a farce of life just as easily as we take it seriously is what makes life.

 

[sky cake]

well i did want to debate that the bible was a lie, and that the bible acts as proof, and by acting as such invalidates faith, that man can not tell the diffrance. and any act on mans part to find god is wishfull thinking, that religions is a vain attempt to inflate our own self worth. and often the justifaction in killing others.

 

[DonSinger]

I dont buy the bible either man. There are stories in there that, to me, says god cares only for his believers. Which is total ********.

 

[Dunemeister]

well i did want to debate that the bible was a lie, and that the bible acts as proof, and by acting as such invalidates faith, that man can not tell the diffrance. and any act on mans part to find god is wishfull thinking, that religions is a vain attempt to inflate our own self worth. and often the justifaction in killing others.

Welcome to RF. Why not pick just one of these lines for debate and start a thread on it? You've got too much for one thread IMO.

 

[sky cake]

Welcome to RF. Why not pick just one of these lines for debate and start a thread on it? You've got too much for one thread IMO.

to much dogma to attack, have to shotgun it, the first question was why does god need a bible?

 

[Dunemeister]

to much dogma to attack, have to shotgun it, the first question was why does god need a bible?

He doesn't.

 

[sky cake]

He doesn't.

the bible is the only god most christians know, outside of it they have no relationship with god. the bible causes most cristians to go off course, it causes all the church splits, and infighting. with out the bible there would be more reason to find a centeral dogma, and less for the frindge groups to hold on to one little phrase and disregard the rest.

 

[MissAlice]

i win!!!!

Just remember, the cake is a lie.

And yes most xstrians don't consider eachother xstrians if they do not follow the bible but then again so many xstians use many different interpretations as to the context of the bible and even some self-proclaimed xtrians don't agree with most of what is interpreted in the bible thus divisions and denominations so yes....why a bible indeed? :sarcastic

 

[Dunemeister]

the bible is the only god most christians know, outside of it they have no relationship with god.

Quite the contrary. Christians know the God of the bible, not the bible as God.

 

[sky cake]

Quite the contrary. Christians know the God of the bible, not the bible as God.

NO SR. THEY DONT!
as a one time christian, of many diffrent denonamation, my walk has lead me to understand that the still small voice, is just your own internal dilog, the bible offers to the reader ways to cement there understandings, right or wrong. that then we belive what we want, reinforce what we already are able to except as truth. i find that christians study to learn to fight eachother better, and to exploit the gray zones, they seek to confort tham selfs with what they think thay are winning in the afterlife in the great carnival in the sky.

has it ever accured to you that to sitting in church, in a large, clean, building in a nice part of town, sing songs to other people, just like your selfs, is not what jesus would have lived and died for "if he were real". the vast majority of christians dont know the 10 comandments, much less there centeral dogma. they dont wittness there faith, all the wile your religion claimes that narrow is the way, and small is the gate to heaven, and wide is the gate, of thoses that think that they are savied and ok. religion seeks its own. and most people are easly, scaired, or fooled, or both. religion for most people fills in the blanks to questions were there really are no answers to. what happens after you die.

religion hediges its bet, it fans the flaimes of the fear of death by promoting a belife that eternal pain awates those that dont comply to a reasonless ideal that god would father himself, so he could sacrofice himself to himself so he wont make himself seen us to hell. to the christian the bible means anything they want it to mean, if this were not so, there wold not be so many diffrent denomanations, so many well to do churches, so many diffrent ministry, the poor are still poor, the sick are still sick, the lame dont walk, the blind dont see, all the wile, the megga churches stuff there wallets, and there false idol pasters, bleat out there messages to the shepeople, you love god by giving him money. whitewash tombs, buildings of the dead, hawking religious pardons for a song and dance.

i can show you were you went wrong, but i will need to know a little about your religious conversion.

 

[sojourner]

this is meant as a call to reason to all men that would be free of religious oppression, it is sad that a slave loves his chains, and boasts of the ring in his nose.

Spirituality sets us free. It does not chain us down. Maybe you're attacking the wrong concept...

 

[sojourner]

the bible is the only god most christians know, outside of it they have no relationship with god. the bible causes most cristians to go off course, it causes all the church splits, and infighting. with out the bible there would be more reason to find a centeral dogma, and less for the frindge groups to hold on to one little phrase and disregard the rest.

I doubt that's true of "most Xians." Relationship with God comes through relationships with other folks. God lives in the "spaces between us" -- not in the pages of a book. If there's anything that is true of "most Xians," it is that "most Xians know that."

The Bible doesn't cause splits. Human misunderstanding causes splits. The Bible has lasted, not because it is "true," but because it is polyvalent. That polyvalency upsets a lot of people, who insist that "truth" must be limited to only one perspective -- theirs.

In fact, if one looks at church history -- since the very beginning -- there has never been "one common dogma" -- even during the 400 or so years before there was a "Bible."

The Bible is important, not because of the "textbook truth," but because of the Tradition it preserves for us.