why a bible?

[OmarKhayyam]

"I can see there will be no point talking with you. You are officially on my ignore list."

Sky Cake, you should wear that distinction as a badge of honor especially so quickly acquired. It took me months to achieve that.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I think this is incredibly pessimistic. That's the "sad state of affairs in organized religion." I'd agree that there's a fair amount of inattention going on, but there's a lot of attention, too. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Perhaps I struck too much of a pessimistic tone. However, I believe everything I said. While there are a great many people that are really trying to follow the teachings of Jesus, I am afraid that a many have become mired in complacency and self assurance and are completely off course. And no, I do not have anything against organized religion in general. Heck, I participate in it, but I do see the sad truth behind what SC is saying.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

so you see the masses of non thinking religious people too?

I do.

and you dont go to church dressed up not to be seen? right

Hey SC, you really can't judge him based on what you know of other people. Is it hard to believe that sojourner and many others like him actually go to church to worship? I'll tell you what, I wish I could go to church and not be seen. It would be a lot less painful emotionally. The reason I go to church is to show my love and gratitude to God. And I always come away uplifted and inspired. Going to church is also of great importance to me because of the sacrament. When I was baptized I made some very serious and important promises. Whenever I take the sacrament, I am able to renew the covenant I made. I think this is the single most vital part of my church attendance. The rest is just a nice bonus.

my father was a penitostal minister, i volintered with may diffrent churches, i am aware of my own self, and my own pit falls, i see the church after church act in the name of men only. i have seen the christin kill and mame its own followers, when you imply that i cant know the vast majority, i will concede that no i dont personal know each and every christian alive, and all the dead ones too. but i do see the actions of the ones i do know, and i live in a world that is greatly shaped by the religious whoremongers.

Men can corrupt religion to their own ends. Look at the foundational tenants of any of the major religions. If everyone began to live these, the world would undergo a beautiful transformation.

 

[sojourner]

"I can see there will be no point talking with you. You are officially on my ignore list."

Sky Cake, you should wear that distinction as a badge of honor especially so quickly acquired. It took me months to achieve that.

Simply p***ing people off is a high aspiration for an enlightened individual.

 

[sojourner]

Perhaps I struck too much of a pessimistic tone. However, I believe everything I said. While there are a great many people that are really trying to follow the teachings of Jesus, I am afraid that a many have become mired in complacency and self assurance and are completely off course. And no, I do not have anything against organized religion in general. Heck, I participate in it, but I do see the sad truth behind what SC is saying.

Don't kid yourself. It's always been that way. Remember how, according to Mark, Jesus was constantly fed up and frustrated with his bumbling and stupid disciples?

 

[sky cake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sky cake
perhaps i am, i was a christain for 25 years, and i was seeking truth, so i cast away my make belive sky god, and i am better for it.

So you say.

i do, i do beleve you have everyright to belive how you would, so long as you dont force people to belive as you do, or harm yourself or others.


Quote:
so you see the masses of non thinking religious people too?
Not masses, but I admit they're there. Do you see the masses of non thinking secular people? I do.
yes i do see masses of non thinking secular people! could it be the reason you cant see the masses of religious ones beacuse your one of thoses? just saying. i dont know you well enough to make that call.



Quote:
and you dont go to church dressed up not to be seen? right
What did I wear to church last Sunday?

dont know. but by saying that i could not say correctly what you wore last sunday, invalidated that most christians that go to church, dress nice, they will say its because they are showing reverance to god, as if god (if he were real) does nor know how they dress the rest of the week, i understand dressing up nice for an gathering, but it is for the other people to see, not god. if god can see to your soul what good is dressing up?


Quote:
my father was a penitostal minister, i volintered with may diffrent churches, i am aware of my own self, and my own pit falls, i see the church after church act in the name of men only. i have seen the christin kill and mame its own followers, when you imply that i cant know the vast majority, i will concede that no i dont personal know each and every christian alive, and all the dead ones too. but i do see the actions of the ones i do know, and i live in a world that is greatly shaped by the religious whoremongers, i can show you that your religion is fake and full of fakes, but in the end you have to want to except the overwelming evidance. because faith is nothing more than wishfull thinking. and you are full if it. full of faith.
I have no more faith than you.

you have much more faith than me, i have none, only reason.

Quote:
you guys make it eazy, with all the posion coolaid, and burnt bodys, and pedifila, and money changing.
I can see there will be no point talking with you. You are officially on my ignore list.
well i am sorry, i must have tuched a nerve. i was mearly trying to point out that the vageness of the bible allowes some to rise to power in its religious groups and do bad things, that everytime you allow men to come between you and a personl revilation of god, men will seek to control you. i am just saying if god picks his players he sure picks some bad one.



Quote:
ehh just trying to help
No, you're not. You're just trying to be mean. Succeeding, too.

mean? mean? really? i can be mean, but i am not trying to be here, not even close to being mean. so if anything that you dont agree with is being mean?
__________________
What’s the difference between a consultant, a lawyer and a theologian? Answer: a consultant borrows your watch and tells you the time. A lawyer borrows your watch, tells you the time, and keeps the watch as part payment of the fee. A theologian tells you the time, and suggests you adjust your watch.

 

[sojourner]

i understand dressing up nice for an gathering, but it is for the other people to see, not god. if god can see to your soul what good is dressing up?

We do dress partly for the benefit of others, and partly for our own benefit, because we feel better when we look better. Since God lives in the spaces between us, how we present ourselves and treat each other is important to God.

you have much more faith than me, i have none, only reason.

And yet, you're being unreasonable here.

 

[sky cake]

We do dress partly for the benefit of others, and partly for our own benefit, because we feel better when we look better. Since God lives in the spaces between us, how we present ourselves and treat each other is important to God.

if god is real than we are here for his will, god would care less how we are dressed, man has always caired, and dresses up like a peacock to show his won granduer. you are defending a vain ideal that god is so pleased with mans own self inflated vanity.

And yet, you're being unreasonable here.

am i? besauce i stand opposed to your belifes i am being unreasonable? really?

 

[sojourner]

am i? besauce i stand opposed to your belifes i am being unreasonable? really?

No, because many of your negative statements with regard to religion are biased generalizations.

 

[sky cake]

No, because many of your negative statements with regard to religion are biased generalizations.

so i think your biased religious exucess are just religous homerisium, you answer to all the gaping holes in the story book faith is covering it with "jesus love you"
you dont answer the questions i ask you, you compain about the answers i give you, wate a minet are you my wife?

 

[sojourner]

so i think your biased religious exucess are just religous homerisium, you answer to all the gaping holes in the story book faith is covering it with "jesus love you"
you dont answer the questions i ask you, you compain about the answers i give you, wate a minet are you my wife?

Could you please learn to spell correctly and use good syntax, so that I can at least understand the put-down? This is gobbdigook. What the h*** is "homerisium?" What does "you answer to all the gaping holes in the story book faith is covering it with 'Jesus love you'" mean???

 

[Quagmire]

What the h*** is "homerisium?"

The Homerisium is an ancient Roman temple dedicated to the God of Beer.

(unless somebody has a better guess)

 

[sojourner]

The Homerisium is an ancient Roman temple dedicated to the God of Beer.

(unless somebody has a better guess)

Mmmm...
Unexplained beer....

 

[Ardipithecus]

.Is God revealed only through “ Gods imparted faith?

No, Imparted faith or the claim thereof is unreliable. There are thousands of different imparted faiths. Imparted faith is revealed only by a man or woman who claims without certification that he/she speaks FOR God.

Is man hopelessly lost with out god revealing himself to man?

Can a man read the bible and believe in god but because god has not revealed himself to that man, that man remains lost?

Man is not hopelessly lost because he does not receive imparted faith. First, there are many imparted faiths attributed to different gods. My personal experience is that humans without faith mostly do quite well. Their world view based on knowledge, reason, and the amazing wealth of scientific information about existence and the universe. Humanistic World Views seem to be more satisfying and beneficial than belief in a magical world whose credibility is only based on hearsay evidence from some prophet in antiquity.

{quote]Is faith, “faith” in the presence of proof?

Is the bible faith’s “proof”?[/quote]

No, to both questions. Faith has proven wrong on many issues such as the
Biblical flat Earth,
the 6000 year old Earth,
the Earth centred solar system,
the impossible world wide flood,
the creation of separate species at the same time,
the creation of day/night before God made the Sun and Moon, creation of animals before Adam and Eve AND after Adam.

Faith can be contrary to common sense and scientific fact:
God impregnating a human virgin
Virgin gives birth to a creature both divine and human
The god-man is sent largely to be slain
The god-man is resurrected from true death 36 hours later..

Can the bible be misinterpreted?

Yes, there are essays written by different so-called prophets full of contradictions, errors, obvious mythology, and a book of revelation that is chaotically written and prone to many fantasy interpretations.

If man can not tell the difference between Satan and god in the absence of godly

revelation, and faith often is the result of religious indoctrination, the measuring stick of mans observance, how can man clearly see, with faith or reason, his status with a god that can only be understood in the context what god ascribes to his personal visitations

I am a bit confused by your words, but I think I agree with you here. To me Satan and God are both mythological and perhaps metaphorical for personifications of evil and good.

There are many way to describe faith. There are many reasons to want faith, but faith in the abstains of a visitation form god is little more than wishful thinking and

ritual social group think. To describe any written work that was not passed from god to you directly is subject to misinterpretation.

Agree.

Answers: conculuson

That the bible is the work of men, and men are subject to deceit, and easily confused

Agreed, plus multiple translations from ancient to modern languages are a setup for errors.

That if god were real then men cant know him with out gods help, and would be lost to try to understand what the bible means.

That the bible is unnecessary.
That god could in faith reveal himself to each man, and remove a stumbling block to all men, by not having a bible, but offer one that is easly formed to mean anthing.

If a God is real and true and he wanted all humans to believe in him, he would reveal himself clearly and unequivocally to every single human being in the same message. For a god to give different messages to different humans it would not be just. For a god to only give the message to a few hundred eccentric old men out behind the temple and expect all other people to believe the eccentric's claim is deceitful.

If salvation is depended on faith, God should not make it so hard to find the right faith among the thousands of historical faiths.

Faith is unreliable for the following reason. If God required the same faith in him from all humans, why is it that 93% of Irish people believe in Jesus and the Virgin Mary? Why is it that 90% of people in Alabama have Christian Fundamentalistic Faith.? Why is it that 99% of people born in Saudi Arabia are Wahabi Muslims? How come everybody believe in the same God in every detail and agree on what is needed for salvation.

That tells me there is no true faith. There are only human designed faiths that have no credibility. All religions are invented by humans. A God who is all knowing should not have done such a sloppy job at revelation.

Answer:
1. There is no revelation, Deism. God does not use revelation to contact humans

2. OR God does not exist.

That the bible acts as proof to religious people, and that that proof damages faith.

That the bible tends to polarizes people into religious social groups.
that the bible becomes an icon, and a symbol, that most religious people replace god with it.
That were reading replaces revelation, and the word that was “in the beginning” is forced to become the “word” the reader interprets.

Spot on!

That if Satan is the father of lies, and the bible can not be understood with out godly revelation, then the bible has only one author, man. That if god can convert without the bible, and religion has to have some form of ‘faith proof” or “sky cake” is not anything that does not pass directly form god to you, subject to misinterpertation

god teach us to fear him is to love him, and offer hell as a punishment when men can’t do anything to avoid it themselves It seems mean and evil and something Satan would do.

Well stated.

Ardi

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Simply p***ing people off is a high aspiration for an enlightened individual.

Ah, but WHICH people?

Show me a man's enemies that I may know him.

I have PO the ignorant, the foolish, the followers of mythology, the blinded faithful, the dewey eyed dolts and the Dr Pangloss followers.

What can then be said of me?

 

[Quagmire]

Ah, but WHICH people?

Show me a man's enemies that I may know him.

I have PO the ignorant, the foolish, the followers of mythology, the blinded faithful, the dewey eyed dolts and the Dr Pangloss followers.

What can then be said of me?

That you're deluding yourself.

 

[sojourner]

Ah, but WHICH people?

Show me a man's enemies that I may know him.

I have PO the ignorant, the foolish, the followers of mythology, the blinded faithful, the dewey eyed dolts and the Dr Pangloss followers.

What can then be said of me?

I don't think we're allowed to say, as per forum decorum rules.

 

[sky cake]

Could you please learn to spell correctly and use good syntax, so that I can at least understand the put-down? This is gobbdigook. What the h*** is "homerisium?" What does "you answer to all the gaping holes in the story book faith is covering it with 'Jesus love you'" mean???

cant learn to spell correctly, it is to late for me my friend. i will try to explain the put downs for you. do you understand what a homer is? a homer is a coolaid dringing fool, as in the home crowd is always rooting for the home teem even when they suck. a homer is one whos head is stuch so far yo there own bum that they turn completely in side out, a homer is some that eats a lie samwitch and thinks it tasts like the truth. a homer is so lost in denial that he is the poster boy for sucker. he is the first to speack up and the last to know that what he said has made him a laughing stock to everyone.

your answer to any opposing question, that folks here at this forum ask you is simply adresses with a answer that repeated in the statment "jesus loves you"

what i mean to say is that no matter the question you answer really = that jesus loves you, so in a sense you blow off the answer and apply the magic "jesus loves you" implying to oppouse you is to be a fool.

ok example i said that jesus failed to comdem slavery, in his time and in the time that follows him. you reply that slavery was an issue and inportant in jesus;s time.

see? jesus, god, had us right were he wanted us and we had to wate untill the 1800 to learn to condem slavery by our own hand. jesus droped the ball here and your responce was oh well there were salaves in jesus's time. :slap:

slavery was evil and so was jesus for not saying so.

 

[sojourner]

your answer to any opposing question, that folks here at this forum ask you is simply adresses with a answer that repeated in the statment "jesus loves you"

Look, Skeezix, this is a religious forum. We're talking about God and attributes of God. God's greatest attribute is love. If we're gonna be talkin' about God, we're gonna be talkin' about love. If you're gonna talk about cars, you're likely gonna be talkin' about engines. Got it?

what i mean to say is that no matter the question you answer really = that jesus loves you, so in a sense you blow off the answer and apply the magic "jesus loves you" implying to oppouse you is to be a fool.

Many of the questions stem from such poor theology that the love of God for us is completely obfuscated. That's a very important theme for the Divine/human relationship: love. The questions are, in a sense, not answered the way you want, because they're unanswerable -- they make such poor assumptions and disply such misunderstanding. It's like asking "why dogs' light bulbs get moldy." You can't answer such questions without setting the record straight from the get-go. The questions are foolish -- not because they oppose me, but because they're such poor questions.

ok example i said that jesus failed to comdem slavery, in his time and in the time that follows him. you reply that slavery was an issue and inportant in jesus;s time.

No, I said that slavery was completely different in 1st century Palestine than it was in modern America. It raises different social and cultural issues for us than it did for them.

see? jesus, god, had us right were he wanted us and we had to wate untill the 1800 to learn to condem slavery by our own hand. jesus droped the ball here and your responce was oh well there were salaves in jesus's time.

No, the writers dropped the ball, as far as we're concerned, but probably not as far as the ancients were concerned.

slavery was evil and so was jesus for not saying so.

You're really in no position to label something as "evil" that you don't believe exists in the first place.

Maybe if you had bothered to learn some solid theology, you wouldn't have ended up being so resentful and untoward. And you might not look like such a homer yourself.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

That you're deluding yourself.

About?