Why are christians morally inferior to atheists

[Nepenthe]

Eh, 9-10ths already tackled it but I'll post anyway.

Bullsh.., not unless you redefine the word "Atheist."

No, as it's been explained several times, you are wrong. Agnosticism claims certain knowledge, in this case of deities, is either impossible to ever know, or is knowable yet they haven't attained enough information to confirm nor deny. Agnostics are atheists epistemologically speaking. Arguing by dictionary isn't a particularly philosophically coherent position to take.

Bullsh.., to follow Christ, one must pray to the Father God, as Christ directed in his universal prayer, "Our Father who art in heaven etc."

That's funny. Better pass the No True Scotsmen e-mail around the office. Some haven't received it yet.

Someone who does not disbelieve that God exists, but believes that the existence of god(s) can't be proved, either currently or for all time, is not an atheist who must disbelieve in the existence of God to meet the criteria that defines that person as an atheist, and that person is therefore an agnostic.

You're obstinately refusing to acknowledge your mistake.
Someone who lacks the knowledge to make a definitive claim that God(s) exist (whether by insufficient knowledge or that the question is incapable of even being answered) is an agnostic, and they are atheists in that they do not believe in the existence of God(s).

 

[S-word]

Some words that were used in ancient time have evolved, and no longer express their original meaning, which is not the case with the word "Atheist," which today, still holds true to it's original definition.

 

[monta]

Some words that were used in ancient time have evolved, and no longer express their original meaning, which is not the case with the word "Atheist," which today, still holds true to it's original definition.

That is your personal opinion though, not the dictionary definition, as has been pointed out to you by several people.

 

[rageoftyrael]

Wow, has anyone ever noticed that christians always act as if they have the absolute definition of atheism or agnosticism? And us mere agnostic and/or atheists couldn't possibly be aware of the nuances involved? Well, to be honest, if you ask a christian(not all, but s-word definitely) there are no nuances at all. You can't mess with their black and white world, it would be scary.

S-word, you do know that you are oversimplifying the definition you gave us? It's simple, a disbelief in god, that is one definition you gave right? Well, i do not believe in god, but i am not absolutely certain there is no god. That means, my BELIEF is that there is no god, but my KNOWLEDGE is lacking, which is why i'm also agnostic. I believe there is no god, but i do not KNOW for certain that there is no god, thus that makes me an agnostic atheist, and if you ask a lot of atheists, they will agree with this assessment.

Either way, quit acting as if you, a christian, know what an atheist or agnostic is, over what an agnostic or atheist says. That would be like a total layman, who knows nothing about medicine, disagreeing with a doctor on something that is quite simple to the doctor. The doctor knows the answer, but the layman, who knows basically nothing on the subject, disagrees, doesn't make sense, does it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some words that were used in ancient time have evolved, and no longer express their original meaning, which is not the case with the word "Atheist," which today, still holds true to it's original definition.

Actually, that's not true. Originally, "atheist" meant something closer to "person who doesn't believe in the specific god(s) I, the speaker, believe in."

In ancient Rome, Christians were "atheists". In Christian medieval Europe, pagans were "atheists". It's only relatively recently that it's come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.

 

[dogsgod]

Actually, that's not true. Originally, "atheist" meant something closer to "person who doesn't believe in the specific god(s) I, the speaker, believe in."

In ancient Rome, Christians were "atheists". In Christian medieval Europe, pagans were "atheists". It's only relatively recently that it's come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.

Perhaps, but as long as there has been theists there has been atheists, and that will continue as long as there are theists.

 

[S-word]

Actually, that's not true. Originally, "atheist" meant something closer to "person who doesn't believe in the specific god(s) I, the speaker, believe in."

In ancient Rome, Christians were "atheists". In Christian medieval Europe, pagans were "atheists". It's only relatively recently that it's come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.

Quote.. 9-10ths Penguin: It's only relatively recently that it's come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.
____________________________________

You really don't know what you're talking about do you mate? Here you have just said that the word "Atheist" the meaning of which in older times was quite ambiguous, has evolved to the point, where today, it has come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all
But according to your own personal definition of an atheist, which is in contradiction to the defination as shown in the dictionary; I, who do not believe that Jesus is God, am therefore an atheist in the eyes of Christians and I claim the right to be called an atheist, and should be allowed to post in atheist only threads.

 

[monta]

According to your definition of an atheist, I, who do not believe that Jesus is God, am therefore an atheist in the eyes of Christians and I claim the right to be called an atheist, and should be allowed to post in atheist only threads.

If you self identify as an atheist then I guess you can make a case for this.

Do you self identify as an atheist?


I suddenly get the feeling you are being delibrately provocotive, in order to confirm and satisfy your own opinions about atheists, by trying to make them lose their temper with you, and say something you can use as ammunition .

 

[Kerr]

According to your definition of an atheist, I, who do not believe that Jesus is God, am therefore an atheist in the eyes of Christians and I claim the right to be called an atheist, and should be allowed to post in atheist only threads.

The point was not that the first definition of the word is the correct one, but that the term atheist has evolved . The definitions of words are not constants.

 

[S-word]

The point was not that the first definition of the word is the correct one, but that the term atheist has evolved . The definitions of words are not constants.

I totally agree with you and as your atheist friend 9-10ths Penguin has stated that in ancient Rome, Christians were "atheists". In Christian medieval Europe, pagans were "atheists". It's only relatively recently that it's come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.
So according to your mate, the meaning of the word "Atheist" which was once quite ambiguous has evolved to the point, where today, the meaning to the word "Atheist," has come to specifically mean someone who doesn't believe in any gods at all.

To what has the meaning of the word "Atheist" evolved into since 1988 when the readers Digest Universal Dictionary, was published?

From the Readers Digest Universal Dictionary, Published in 1988; "Atheism" 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. Godlessness; wickedness. 3. The doctrine that there is no God, or that the word "God" and statements about it or using it, is meaningless. From athee, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless: a-, without + theos, god] --atheist n.

And why was your supposedly new evolved meaning to that word, not published in that book?

 

[S-word]

If you self identify as an atheist then I guess you can make a case for this.

Do you self identify as an atheist?


I suddenly get the feeling you are being delibrately provocotive, in order to confirm and satisfy your own opinions about atheists, by trying to make them lose their temper with you, and say something you can use as ammunition .

Quoted by 9-10ths Penguin in post 245: "That aside, there is such a thing as a Christian agnostic atheist. That would be a person who follows Christ in some way but does not believe in God (e.g. these people), while at the same time recognizing that his knowledge is not complete enough to say that he knows God does not exist."

According to this staff members definition, I self identify, as a "Christian agnostic atheist, and claim the right to go on any and all threads designed for Christians, Agnostics and Atheists, with the proviso that as my belief is in a constant state of evolution, I can at any time, change the definition of my growing and expanding belief. For I am not today, where I was yesterday; nor will you find me tomorrow, where I am today.

 

[S-word]

That is your personal opinion though, not the dictionary definition, as has been pointed out to you by several people.

You are incorrect monta, that was not my personal opinion, but was the dictionary defination of the meaning of the word "Atheist" as it stands TODAY.

From the Readers Digest Universal Dictionary, Published in 1988; "Atheism" 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. Godlessness; wickedness. 3. The doctrine that there is no God, or that the word "God" and statements about it or using it, is meaningless. From athee, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless: a-, without + theos, god] --atheist n.


That which has been pointed out to me by several people, is their own personal opinion which is contradictory to the definition of the word "Atheist" in the Dictionary.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But according to your own personal definition of an atheist, which is in contradiction to the defination as shown in the dictionary; I, who do not believe that Jesus is God, am therefore an atheist in the eyes of Christians and I claim the right to be called an atheist, and should be allowed to post in atheist only threads

I said that the definition of atheist used to be something else. You claimed that the meaning of the word had never changed; I just pointed out that it has. You could well be right that in some other time, you would've been considered an "atheist" by mainstream society. This does not mean that this is how the word is defined now.

You are incorrect monta, that was not my personal opinion, but was the dictionary defination of the meaning of the word "Atheist" as it stands TODAY.

From the Readers Digest Universal Dictionary, Published in 1988; "Atheism" 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. Godlessness; wickedness. 3. The doctrine that there is no God, or that the word "God" and statements about it or using it, is meaningless. From athee, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless: a-, without + theos, god] --atheist n.


That which has been pointed out to me by several people, is their own personal opinion which is contradictory to the definition of the word "Atheist" in the Dictionary.

The dictionary definition you give still allows a person to be simultaneously atheist and agnostic. I think the hang-up here is on the definition of "believe" that's implicit in your interpretation.

 

[S-word]

I said that the definition of atheist used to be something else. You claimed that the meaning of the word had never changed; I just pointed out that it has. You could well be right that in some other time, you would've been considered an "atheist" by mainstream society. This does not mean that this is how the word is defined now.

The dictionary definition you give still allows a person to be simultaneously atheist and agnostic. I think the hang-up here is on the definition of "believe" that's implicit in your interpretation.

Then you think/believe wrongly. Lets forget about the word "believe"and concentrate on the word "Denial".

From the Readers Digest Universal Dictionary, Published in 1988; "Atheism" 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. Godlessness; wickedness. 3. The doctrine that there is no God, or that the word "God" and statements about it or using it, is meaningless. From athee, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless: a-, without + theos, god] --atheist n.

For your benifit I should point out from the same dictionary, the definition of the word "Denial," but I'm sure you, as do all true atheists, know that one cannot believe in the possible existence of something while denying its very existence, not a sane person anyway. If you have any doubts in the existence of God and yet still believe that there is no way of proving its existence, then admit to yourself that you are not an athesist, but are in fact an agnostic, you can be one or the other, you cannot be both.

 

[Kerr]

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God.

Also notice the "or" in that definition .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then you think/believe wrongly. Lets forget about the word "believe"and concentrate on the word "Denial".

Yes, let's forget about the crux of the matter. :sarcastic

For your benifit I should point out from the same dictionary, the definition of the word "Denial," but I'm sure you, as do all true atheists, know that one cannot believe in the possible existence of something while denying its very existence, not a sane person anyway.

Sure you can. You do it like this:

I believe that God does not exist, but I can't say that this is definitely true with 100% certainty.

Or like this:

I am as sure as I can possibly be that God does not exist.

If you have any doubts in the existence of God and yet still believe that there is no way of proving its existence, then admit to yourself that you are not an athesist, but are in fact an agnostic, you can be one or the other, you cannot be both.

Of course you can be. Many people are.

Anyone who acknowledges issues like the "brain in a vat" problem can't say with absolute certainty that any knowledge they have based on their perceptions is completely reliable. To anyone who's really thought it through, everything is subject to at least some measure of doubt. Under your system of definitions, virtually nobody could rightly call themselves "theist" or "atheist". Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

[Autodidact]

S-word. If you don't recognize the possibility that you could be wrong, you're just close-minded.

 

[painter49]

Great arguements posted here .... For those in denial, I hope your right, however if your wrong and the christians are right.... what then? At the final day it's a position that can't be changed!!

 

[Kerr]

Great arguements posted here .... For those in denial, I hope your right, however if your wrong and the christians are right.... what then? At the final day it's a position that can't be changed!!

Yes, but then how do we know it is the Christians that are right? Maybe it is Buddhism, Hinduism, or maybe that religion that Odin was a part of (I know the name in my own language, but not in English) that is the correct one. Or the universe is ruled by a god we do not know. As I see it, we are all at risk.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Great arguements posted here .... For those in denial, I hope your right, however if your wrong and the christians are right.... what then? At the final day it's a position that can't be changed!!

So, is all this trying to convince yourself working?