Why are Incels such hateful people ?

[Quintessence]

I wonder, if some of the movement is a response to how communications have changed. It seems more and more common that people don't date from a pool of people they know, and friends of friends, but rather through online dating services. While I've seen successful matches from this(have a few family members who this worked for), it removes some of the humanity from these experiences and makes it more like 'product'. Being as the incel movement seems most prevalent in younger men, I wonder if this push of 'attraction' being more like marketing than relationship makes it hard to relate to women as... well, human.

That is definitely part of it. Impersonal forms of communication significantly (and for the most part, negatively) impact interpersonal relationships just in general and perhaps intimate ones especially so.

The larger part of it, though, is that women actually have rights now. They vote. They own property. They are independent. Which means males are no longer culturally entitled to own them. And some males simply cannot deal with that and want to "put women in their place."

 

[Secret Chief]

The nice woman at the gas station is perhaps a bit chubby. Their sister's best friend has frizzy hair and dresses plainly. Their friendly coworker is too tall/short/skinny/fat, blah, blah, blah...

The worst is the one with blue hair.

 

[JustGeorge]

The worst is the one with blue hair.

Its fortunate stupid is my thing, 'cause you'd have to be stupid to get with me...

 

[Secret Chief]

Its fortunate stupid is my thing, 'cause you'd have to be stupid to get with me...

So I've got no hope then?

 

[JustGeorge]

So I've got no hope then?

Not with the way you throw big words around when no one's looking...

The friend that introduced my husband and I: "He came into my house, tripped over his own feet, knocked food over the floor, and said a bunch incoherent nonsense. That's when I knew this was the one for you!"

 

[Estro Felino]

I wouldn't even say "content with little"... just content with "human".

The nice woman at the gas station is perhaps a bit chubby. Their sister's best friend has frizzy hair and dresses plainly. Their friendly coworker is too tall/short/skinny/fat, blah, blah, blah...

I think of my cousin who tells me: well..you're so lucky, you rarely are single. You easily can find a guy to go out with.
And I tell her: sweetheart, I don't look for the Brad Pitts, I am interested in a man's soul...
I don't chase the impossible.

 

[Alien826]

I think I could be described as "involuntarily celibate" for most of my life. And I do relate to a lot of their frustration. Why are (many) women attracted to a certain type of man ("bad boys"), that often aren't especially physically attractive? Why is it that observing their behavior and attempting to copy it does not make me similarly attractive. It's innate in some way that I couldn't fathom. Why are women (in a relationship) sometimes very "horny" and sometimes not? And so on.

But I'm not an "incel" as described here. Why not?

First, I try not to share a feature of such people that I find unattractive. It goes like "Things are not going well for me, it must be someone else's fault". Instead, I try to find some way to overcome the problem, or avoid it, and often end up deciding that it's nobody's fault it's just the way things are.

Then, I recognize that men's and women's sex drives vary considerably and don't work together for mutual happiness. That's a reason to feel unhappy, but not to blame women, who are trapped in the system as much as we are.

 

[Secret Chief]

Not with the way you throw big words around when no one's looking...

Sorry about that. It was my upbringing. I'm quite good at falling over...

 

[JustGeorge]

I think I could be described as "involuntarily celibate" for most of my life. And I do relate to a lot of their frustration. Why are (many) women attracted to a certain type of man ("bad boys"), that often aren't especially physically attractive? Why is it that observing their behavior and attempting to copy it does not make me similarly attractive. It's innate in some way that I couldn't fathom. Why are women (in a relationship) sometimes very "horny" and sometimes not? And so on.

I don't understand that drive many women have to 'bad boys', either.

But I'm not an "incel" as described here. Why not?

First, I try not to share a feature of such people that I find unattractive. It goes like "Things are not going well for me, it must be someone else's fault". Instead, I try to find some way to overcome the problem, or avoid it, and often end up deciding that it's nobody's fault it's just the way things are.

Then, I recognize that men's and women's sex drives vary considerably and don't work together for mutual happiness. That's a reason to feel unhappy, but not to blame women, who are trapped in the system as much as we are.

And then there's the fact that not all men and women have uniform sex drives... I spent a number of unhappy years in my early 20s with a man who had 0 interest in intimacy, while I was... well, in my early 20s.

I got pregnant around 21... I remember the nurse getting out a chart to try to calculate the day I could have possibly conceived. I told her don't bother, I knew the exact date. She asked "Well, how could you possibly know that?" I told her it was the only time we'd had sex that year. She was embarrassed, and moved on.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Personally I don't think its that many people. Lots of people who watched Jerry Springer had simple lives that would not have gotten any mention on the show. The same goes for subscribers of these manrage channels or whatever they are called.

 

[JustGeorge]

Personally I don't think its that many people. Lots of people who watched Jerry Springer had simple lives that would not have gotten any mention on the show. The same goes for subscribers of these manrage channels or whatever they are called.

Do you feel its just a case of the loudest are the ones that are heard the most?

What do you think the average member of an incel community is like?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do you feel its just a case of the loudest are the ones that are heard the most?

I believe we enjoy hearing other's complaints, so long as they are entertaining enough. Its similar to the reasons why people listen to rumors. After hearing only one side we nevertheless feel informed, unless we are anxious or have experience. Some people who tend more towards anxiety will be more likely to see problems with the one side, but most people will feel fine. Anxiety is such a curse when hearing one side only.

What do you think the average member of an incel community is like?

I think incels are the result of the anxiety surrounding marriage. Most incels are probably older, but there are plenty of young ones. I think a good place to look for causes is Japan where young people are opting out of marriage. People have seen how unhappy married life can get, however without marriage or civil unions relationships get a lot harder to establish.

Also nobody is taught to dance, and families put a lot of religious strictures on their kids. Its like pressure to be something you are not confluxed with pressure to be honest. Families have this crazy belief that they can genuinely make their children believers, and there is a lot of emphasis on acting like a believer. Go into almost any church. You must act as if you are the biggest believer on the planet, or you are a space alien in there. And nobody dances. I mean the alternative is a dive bar. That's it. You meet people at church or in a bar. Those are your choices.

 

[JustGeorge]

I believe we enjoy hearing other's complaints, so long as they are entertaining enough. Its similar to the reasons why people listen to rumors. After hearing only one side we nevertheless feel informed, unless we are anxious or have experience. Some people who tend more towards anxiety will be more likely to see problems with the one side, but most people will feel fine. Anxiety is such a curse when hearing one side only.

Yes, I think so, too. I notice people bond more over vices than virtues, typically.

I think incels are the result of the anxiety surrounding marriage. Most incels are probably older, but there are plenty of young ones. I think a good place to look for causes is Japan where young people are opting out of marriage. People have seen how unhappy married life can get, however without marriage or civil unions relationships get a lot harder to establish.

If a person chooses to 'opt out', are they still an incel?

Also nobody is taught to dance, and families put a lot of religious strictures on their kids. Its like pressure to be something you are not confluxed with pressure to be honest. Families have this crazy belief that they can genuinely make their children believers, and there is a lot of emphasis on acting like a believer. Go into almost any church. You must act as if you are the biggest believer on the planet, or you are a space alien in there. And nobody dances. I mean the alternative is a dive bar. That's it. You meet people at church or in a bar. Those are your choices.

Its true, no one dances. That's where my Grandma used to meet people.

I guess most of who I've been with were friends of friends. But I feel the nature of friendships have changed as well, so that might be harder, too.

 

[Yerda]

I noticed that on incel Fourms the guys there are usually teenagers and young adults and they keep insulting me they don't want me in there group which is a real shame because I thought that identifying and mostly being an incel would bring like-minded people together but nope these Incels are all angry butter hateful people who get off on insulting others on the internet so much for a support group of any kind for men's issues and Male loneliness I think I'm alone now there doesn't seem to be anyone around.

This can be your support group.

People coming to terms with their own unimportance to the world around them often experience significant frustration and alienation that grows dark and bitter if allowed. I think the same forces driving incels towards hiding and hating also push young men towards political extremists like the neo-nazis and Islamists.

As young men we're mostly running on the fumes from our own ego mixed with deep and unsatisfiable insecurities. A few defeats too many and a good fraction of us will withdraw and grow toxic. At least until we get over ourselves.

This is my just-so story, anyhow.

 

[JustGeorge]

This can be your support group.

People coming to terms with their own unimportance to the world around them often experience significant frustration and alienation that grows dark and bitter if allowed. I think the same forces driving incels towards hiding and hating also push young men towards political extremists like the neo-nazis and Islamists.

As young men we're mostly running on the fumes from our own ego mixed with deep and unsatisfiable insecurities. A few defeats too many and a good fraction of us will withdraw and grow toxic. At least until we get over ourselves.

This is my just-so story, anyhow.

How do we(society) help men not do this?

 

[Yerda]

How do we(society) help men not do this?

I don't know. If I'm honest I was just letting my thoughts go.

How do we raise healthy boys, prepared for and able to remain balanced in a mental world? Just got to love the little creeps and hope for the best, I reckon.

 

[Quintessence]

How do we(society) help men not do this?

It's not a male only thing, even. I found these words very interesting:

People coming to terms with their own unimportance to the world around them often experience significant frustration and alienation that grows dark and bitter if allowed.

In general, our culture has an ego and a vanity problem. Me, me, me, and I want it now, now, now.

Take a breath.

Stop.

Appreciate what you have.

Let go.

Think less about yourself and more about things bigger than yourself.

The universe not being all about you and your ego is not a bad thing.

 

[JustGeorge]

It's not a male only thing, even. I found these words very interesting:



In general, our culture has an ego and a vanity problem. Me, me, me, and I want it now, now, now.

Take a breath.

Stop.

Appreciate what you have.

Let go.

Think less about yourself and more about things bigger than yourself.

The universe not being all about you and your ego is not a bad thing.

I don't think its a bad thing, either... but its scary for some.

I wish there was more positive opportunities for people who need to learn this lesson.

 

[Shaul]

Ah, I didn't know the term 'incel' could be applied to married men, too.

It refers to "involuntary celibate", so I guess it could.

 

[Quintessence]

I don't think its a bad thing, either... but its scary for some.

I wish there was more positive opportunities for people who need to learn this lesson.

It's supposed to be one of the major roles of religion - religion is very much about connecting to something bigger than yourself. For better or worse, that role has gotten lost in some traditions or been co-opted into something else.