Why are insurance costs out of control with the 'Affordable Healthcare Act"

[jeager106]

Just as an aside I excelled at robotics and creative writing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why is that inherently embarrassing? We are all supported, one way or another, by the Public.

Speak for yourself.
I pay a boatload of taxes, & get little in return.

 

[Augustus]

My insurance for a family of 3 was 2200.00/month. This is not sustainable.

I don't know much about your healthcare system, but I'm not sure how Americans manage to spend so much on healthcare to not have universal healthcare free at the point of service. European countries manage to do it for half of what the US spends per capita to not have it.

This seems to go way back before Obama.

You've long been getting robbed by big pharma and lawyers, apparently now you've added insurance companies to the list. Where else does the money go?

What will happen if you get rid of Obamacare btw? How will the uninsurables get insured again? Has Trump outlined any healthcare policies?

 

[sun rise]

Every other developed nation on Earth has a better, much cheaper, healthcare system than ours. It's not government because those with much government involvement and little both are much cheaper and better.

In fact, Medicare is both much cheaper and more effective except where big business/pharma got their bought-and-paid-for congressional minions to do what they were paid to do - screw the people to enrich gigantic corporations.

Personally I'd prefer the Swiss system.

The ACA was not truly designed to lower costs but it has moderated them. What it was designed to do was to stop the death and suffering of thousands if not millions of Americans and that it has succeeded in to a significant extent.

But there are those who don't care if millions die because of their right-wing political correctness which puts ideology above truth and money above human lives.

 

[buddhist]

I didn't say that. I said evidence that shame and embarrassment are effective motivators.

The proof is in the Law of Cause and Effect.

 

[Augustus]

In fact, Medicare is both much cheaper and more effective except where big business/pharma got their bought-and-paid-for congressional minions to do what they were paid to do - screw the people to enrich gigantic corporations.

Why are medicines so much cheaper in Canada than America? What exactly is the deal with the pharma companies that makes them able to rob Americans so easily?

 

[jeager106]

Speak for yourself.
I pay a boatload of taxes, & get little in return.

I'm retired so taxes aren't a problem now.
When I worked at G.M. taxes were oppressive!
Years ago I recall working a holiday shutdown and in one week
make $7,000 bucks.
Took home $3,200. HUH?
Over half of it was taken away.
I never did that again!

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm retired so taxes aren't a problem now.
When I worked at G.M. taxes were oppressive!
Years ago I recall working a holiday shutdown and in one week
make $7,000 bucks.
Took home $3,200. HUH?
Over half of it was taken away.
I never did that again!

And to think that you weren't paying enuf.

 

[jeager106]

And to think that you weren't paying enuf.

Awful wasn't it?
I paid plenty. I made great money for a few years though.
Then the Company figured out something.
The Company could do little against the U.A.W. as the Union Ruled.
Soooooooooooooo, they found out they could hire kids right out of
college to be supervisors with minimal training for less than half
what I made.
If the young'ns did last none too long so what?
They didn't last long either.
So the Company figured out to make union people quasi supervisors
and give 'em another 50 cents an hour but stay in the Union.
The Union LOVED it!
Production dropped almost instantly so the company hired even MORE
robotic engineers to REPLACE labor with machines.
The union was helpless to stop it.
That plant employed 12,000 hourly when I was hired.
When I got terminated 8 years later they employed less than 2,000.
Machines don't join a union, nor complain, nor get sick, nor demand
anything but a bit of lubrication.
12,000 employees to under 2,000 employees in under 8 years and
the U.A.W. never got the message.
The BEST jobs in those places are those that repair the robots.
Many, many, U.A.W. in plant jobs were "outsourced" to non union
minimum wage plants that sprang up all 'round the auto plant.
MOST of those outsourced plants were OWNED by former G.M.
management teams who died laughing their behinds off!
Cheeesh even HINGES were brought in by the truck load marked
"made in South Africa".
Cheaper to have them built in S.A. and pay the shipping.
Try and suggest to a U.A.W. member that they cut off their nose
to spite their face.

 

[metis]

I posted the stats on several previous threads from non-partisan sources, but up until this last year the rate of medical inflation here in the States was cut roughly in half by the ACA as compared to the previous decade. Now, what happened this year with the sharp increase in rates I cannot attest to, but I have to admit that I'm suspicious as to what caused it, largely because it's an election year.

 

[Milton Platt]

Because the U.S. gov'ment controls it.
The Gov't does nothing economically.
Because foolish voters "bought" the notion that gov'ment insurance
would be FREE.
Anything doled out by the gov'ment is NEVER free.
Someone(s) like working taxpayers are footing the bill big time.
Nothing is so expensive as a FREE Gov'ment program.
Who is paying for all the people on the dole living and eating without
working and earning one thin dime?
A long time ago when I was a rookie cop I qualified for food stamps.
And took 'em.
For about 3 months then I got yet ANOTHER part time job and earned
enough to get off food stamps.
I ate BETTER on food stamps.
I watched ethnics trade food stamps for beer and wine. Something that
was supposed to be illegal.
Slum lords took food stamps for rent payment.
Those on the dole lived pretty well by supplementing expenses with
food stamps and shoplifting.
Sell the food stamps for cash then buy beer and wine. Sell the stolen
goods for cash. No taxes. Can't beat it.
Now there are no food stamps. They get a credit card so as to not be
embarrassed using paper food stamps.
If ya need the assistance then take it. Don't make it a way of life.

Insurance is provided by private insurers, not the government (unless you are on medicare or medicaid). Those with insufficient income are given subsidies to help pay for it. This is far cheaper than withholding insurance and running them through emergency rooms when they are far worse off because they waited.

Nobody billed the Affordable Care Act coverage as free.

I have also seen Caucasians selling food stamps, it is a bad thing no matter who does it. Why single out people of specific ethnic backgrounds? Your bigotry is showing badly.

The welfare programs are woefully abused. I can readily grant you that. They are poorly funded and poorly run. They need to be fixed and the fraud ruthlessly rooted out.

But we can't just ignore the truly needy to stop the abuse of others. Everybody can see the problems. We need some concrete solutions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The proof is in the Law of Cause and Effect.

No, it isn't. That explains "cause" and "effect." It says nothing about whether or not shaming people is an effective motivator. I have read numerous studies and sound wisdom concerning encouraging people to make positive changes. I've read plenty though, and have seen, the potential destructiveness of shaming to change. And it doesn't make any sense as to how it would work, because long-term changes must be sincere, and to be sincere it has to be something the person wants. It's not really then much of a question as to whether or not encouraging someone to improve their health and helping them and educating them about taking charge of their health, or if it's better to say "loose some weight fatty."
This is also why "cause" and "effect" do not provide evidence for your claim. If that is all you have, I doubt you have any until you go Google search it.

 

[buddhist]

No, it isn't. That explains "cause" and "effect." It says nothing about whether or not shaming people is an effective motivator. I have read numerous studies and sound wisdom concerning encouraging people to make positive changes. I've read plenty though, and have seen, the potential destructiveness of shaming to change. And it doesn't make any sense as to how it would work, because long-term changes must be sincere, and to be sincere it has to be something the person wants. It's not really then much of a question as to whether or not encouraging someone to improve their health and helping them and educating them about taking charge of their health, or if it's better to say "loose some weight fatty."
This is also why "cause" and "effect" do not provide evidence for your claim.

I speak not on the level of psychology, but on the level of cosmic law. And on the basis of that law, I see it as bringing that public subsidizing into the light and consequental knowledge, instead of hiding it in darkness and ignorance.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Cheaper to have them built in S.A. and pay the shipping.

So? That means we're really wealthy and they aren't. We do need to do with less here, but our system is so skewed that it cost more money out of pocket to be poor than it does being rich. Poor people buy cheap because it's what they can afford, and buying cheap pretty much always comes with reduced quality, reduced quality pretty much always coming a need to replace more frequently. Everything from toilet paper and light bulbs to car tires and cell phones. Cheap stuff definitely does cost more in the long run, but if it's all you can afford when you need it there isn't much else you can do.
Also, this "cheaper to built in SA" also does itself generally also does come with a reduction in quality as they are mostly made by people who are horribly exploited in sweat shops with no concept of safety or quality.
On the flip side, those high paying UAW jobs pump tons of cash into the local economy week after week, go a long ways in helping to keep unemployment low with the "drunken sailor" spending habits of many UAW workers. And throughout the year they travel and bring their big bucks to cities that rely on tourism because they also get vacation time. And those big union bucks also make it possible to easily raise a family without having to worry about if you can afford your child's lunches, school supplies, and extra curricular activities. That anyone looks down upon people having such a standard, which is brought by unions, is beyond me.

 

[jeager106]

@Shadow Wolf
You sure make a lot of sense.
If the U.A.W. laborer didn't make about $30 bucks an hour I would
NOT have made about $36 bucks an hour.
I wouldn't have a modest monthly income nor a modest investment
account.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I could have sat around and whined and pee'd in my beer but
I CHOSE not to.
It was a choice to make the best of a bad situation.

That's utilizing resources available to you, which is knowing how to do it, but, also, you had that available because of a tragic event (or rather series of events from what you have explained). Me, I'm sliding deeper into debt for my education because I don't have such resources available to me. I'm considered "medically frail," but, even though I legitimately cannot do most jobs around here, I can't get disabilities because of the "national job market," and I no one has ever heard of any resources to help you get to where you can get work you can do. Financial aid from school doesn't even cover moving costs if there are few or no jobs in your area.
So, yeah, situation and circumstance do play more a role than what most people realize.

 

[jeager106]

LUCK.
Sometimes defined as unforeseen beneficial events.
I fully realize that I WAS lucky.
The Ohio State Vocational counselor I had didn't want to waste resources
on a 48 year old guy who had been all busted up.
But I wouldn't let up and got my breaks.
Of course I worked my tush off also.
When openings came up for supervisors at G.M. I was 50 or so
and tested against 212 other "kids" most with college degrees AND
military experience which counted for points on the test scores.
Tests took TWO days.
Needed were just 20 or so supervisors and I got one of those openings.
I WORKED, sweated blood, and got a bit lucky too boot.
Luck = hard work and an positive event.
I fully realize that I had a lot of luck going for me.
Add to all that the fact that by hiring me G.M. WAS hiring a minority.
An older white man.
I fit the minority mold but barely.
Training lasted SIX months and was intense. Many "kids" dropped out.
5 weeks of the training was like an outdoor military boot camp complete
with swinging from trees, wading in cold rivers, figuring ways out of
tough spots. team work,..................no kidding. It was so brutal that G.M. no longer uses that training program.
I wouldn't trade that for anything 'cause I did it!
AND I had just gotten the cast off a broken right arm the day prior
to the training!
I did o.k. for a dumb hillbilly kid & my father said I was too dumb to
attend college.
"College is for rich smart boys." I was just 16 and I've never forgotten that.
The sucker croaked before he could see me go to college.
DAMN!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I speak not on the level of psychology, but on the level of cosmic law. And on the basis of that law, I see it as bringing that public subsidizing into the light and consequental knowledge, instead of hiding it in darkness and ignorance.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I requested.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why are medicines so much cheaper in Canada than America? What exactly is the deal with the pharma companies that makes them able to rob Americans so easily?

Canada is like the US.

Cheap on one front, while they simply grap from another side to keep things "cheap".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Speak for yourself.
I pay a boatload of taxes, & get little in return.

It's bound to happen. I don't benefit from schools being kidless (directly, anyways), but I recognize that society benefits from it, and the benefits outweigh the costs. I don't benefit from police or firefighters either, really, since I live so far out in the country. But it's better that people who do get to use them have them than go without. We really don't even benefit from well maintaned or cared for roads out here either, but it's really nice when they finally do dump some money into it instead of placing patches upon patches. That's kind of how it works. Some funds the entire general population more-or-less benefits from it, and some of it only certain groups will benefit. Some are well off enough they won't benefit beyond what everybody else gets. Is it supposed to be a problem they make plenty of money to afford everything without assistance even after paying taxes?