Why are Jehovah's Witnesses reluctant to discuss their faith?

[nPeace]

If you’re so fervent in your adherence to science, then why do you believe in a god?

Because mainstream science does not allow for an Intelligent Being. Everything — all systems, cycles, life, all the finely-tuned order we observe — arose naturally with no intelligent direction, according to accepted science.

So exactly where does your thinking disagree with science? For you to accept a god, it’s gotta be along some line of thought.
But then, what’s your reasoning or evidence for disputing that area of science?

It's based purely on "blind faith"... if there is such a thing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's based purely on "blind faith"... if there is such a thing.

How dare you speak for me. And with such malicious error in your claim.

Is personal attack always to be the way you all follow?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hold on there cowboy....before we get into any of that we still have an important issue to resolve.

I asked what would happen if you were to announce to your fellow Witnesses that you'd decided that universal common ancestry and human/primate common ancestry were true, and that Noah's flood wasn't really global.

All you've said so far is "first off, they’d laugh. Heartily". Again, is that all that would happen?

I think you may be beating a dead horse. I don't think you will get a logical or reasonable response to your question. It is my conclusion that you will get nothing more than just blind adherence to doctrine.

If a Christian that accepts science only gets personal attacks on character and belief when asking for the evidence that is claimed to exist and to have been deeply studied, but never offered, I doubt you will fare any better.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

But you cannot make claims using science based on mere belief without evidence, reason or valid explanation.

If so, then why do you believe in a god? Does science support your belief?

Is that such a difficult question?

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't know that it is a question that has ever come up in science.

Not all insects pupate and not all insects that do pupate produce cocoons. So the logical answer based on those observations is that cocoons came later after the evolution of insects.

Sorry, I just had to laugh out loud. Yup, it's a mystery, isn't it? I love that -- "cocoons came later after the evolution of insects...." (As if anyone knows...but! I have to say that somehow it is not 'logical' to say that cocoons came up after insects evolved. Why? Because -- it -- doesn't--make--sense. But thanks for trying anyway. ) (They just popped up -- I mean evolved -- (?) according to the theory, of course, somehow -- the survival of the fittest, lol, sorry..!

 

[YoursTrue]

I think you may be beating a dead horse. I don't think you will get a logical or reasonable response to your question. It is my conclusion that you will get nothing more than just blind adherence to doctrine.

If a Christian that accepts science only gets personal attacks on character and belief when asking for the evidence that is claimed to exist and to have been deeply studied, but never offered, I doubt you will fare any better.

Well then, I guess those who really believe that might be happy in religions that profess to "worship Christ" or a triune godhead, but might not believe that Jesus even existed. Or Moses existed, etc. and etc. Yet claim to be "Christian."

 

[Dan From Smithville]

If so, then why do you believe in a god? Does science support your belief?

Is that such a difficult question?

It is an irrelevant question. It's malicious. What difference do my beliefs make in how you answer questions. I'm not making claims and running from questions put to you. You claim ID is science and supported by the evidence. When I asked for this support you immediately turned this to my beliefs. You've done this a number of times in the past to avoid admitting you have no evidence, know of none and can't support your claims. If you could do any of that, you would.

Frankly, don't bother responding to my posts in the future, you have convinced me that I can find no rational discussion with you and that the best you can do is poor attempts to demean my Christianity. That is not very friendly or kind.

 

[YoursTrue]

Hold on there cowboy....before we get into any of that we still have an important issue to resolve.

I asked what would happen if you were to announce to your fellow Witnesses that you'd decided that universal common ancestry and human/primate common ancestry were true, and that Noah's flood wasn't really global.

All you've said so far is "first off, they’d laugh. Heartily". Again, is that all that would happen?

It might. And it would depend on circumstances. The thing is, if a person got baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, that makes a statement as to what he as one of Jehovah's Witnesses professes to believe. If he decides later on that he no longer believes what the Bible says it depends on circumstances if he is to remain one. The Bible speaks of false Christians too. I am so glad I learned more about the science of Darwinistic philosophical proclamations -- pro and con by scientists.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is an irrelevant question. It's malicious. What difference do my beliefs make in how you answer questions. I'm not making claims and running from questions put to you. You claim ID is science and supported by the evidence. When I asked for this support you immediately turned this to my beliefs. You've done this a number of times in the past to avoid admitting you have no evidence, know of none and can't support your claims. If you could do any of that, you would.

Frankly, don't bother responding to my posts in the future, you have convinced me that I can find no rational discussion with you and that the best you can do is poor attempts to demean my Christianity. That is not very friendly or kind.

They certainly do impede on one's person as to beliefs. The theory of Darwinistic posits regarding evolution as I look at them (not the grand words and elaborate language used by many scientists, but the meanderings of their sometimes philosophy about the universe, how it was formed, and what came first, the chicken or the egg) have truly convinced me that what the Bible says regarding creation is far superior to what many scientists claim. Scientists have religion sometimes,not all claim to be atheists, but it's almost like what Jesus said -- empty religious shells. Speaking of shells, I guess somehow survival of the fittest caused shell casings to form around the organisms inside them -- oh never mind...It's been a pleasure speaking with you --

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hold on there cowboy....before we get into any of that we still have an important issue to resolve.

I asked what would happen if you were to announce to your fellow Witnesses that you'd decided that universal common ancestry and human/primate common ancestry were true, and that Noah's flood wasn't really global.

All you've said so far is "first off, they’d laugh. Heartily". Again, is that all that would happen?

You so badly want an answer, so here it is:

You’re envisioning an extreme improbability…

If I felt JW’s were deliberately misleading people in any way… so let’s say in evolution….I would leave willingly, I wouldn’t have to “meet” with anyone.

I would just **stop going**. (Unfortunately, some have just left, and we never see them again.)

Nobody has to meet with anyone.

That’s the course I would take. I would become what is termed “inactive”, with no bad repercussions resulting (except for my relationship with Jehovah God. [You probably can’t even fathom that. Hopefully some day.])

I know this is not what you were expecting to hear, but it’s the course I would take.

That truthfully answers your question.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is an irrelevant question. It's malicious. What difference do my beliefs make in how you answer questions. I'm not making claims and running from questions put to you. You claim ID is science and supported by the evidence. When I asked for this support you immediately turned this to my beliefs. You've done this a number of times in the past to avoid admitting you have no evidence, know of none and can't support your claims. If you could do any of that, you would.

Frankly, don't bother responding to my posts in the future, you have convinced me that I can find no rational discussion with you and that the best you can do is poor attempts to demean my Christianity. That is not very friendly or kind.

I hope you change your mind. In actuality, and I say this with sadness, one's reluctance to own up to their professed religion as to belief is sad indeed. Some think of psychological disconnect. I have given great thought to this matter, and here's what I will say after all these discussions, for which I thank you all -- there are some things not easy to understand. The holy scriptures declare this, I'm sure you are aware of that. And seemingly, according to history, mankind has many forms of religion. Therefore I conclude that the idea of belief in God is greater than you or I can control because of the magnitude of creation -- yes, creation -- and the desire to keep living rather than dying. That is a fundamental. Just like the moon is there. It is a fundamental that mankind has a history of various religious beliefs. And yes, there are atheists declaring also there is no God. And then, of course, there are agnostics.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sorry, I just had to laugh out loud. Yup, it's a mystery, isn't it? I love that -- "cocoons came later after the evolution of insects...." (As if anyone knows...but! I have to say that somehow it is not 'logical' to say that cocoons came up after insects evolved. Why? Because -- it -- doesn't--make--sense. But thanks for trying anyway. ) (They just popped up -- I mean evolved -- (?) according to the theory, of course, somehow -- the survival of the fittest, lol, sorry..!

I don't think you are sorry. From all my observations, I am coming to find that this appears to be a fairly typical behavior. I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could think that ridicule, mockery and unkindness are something a Christian would want to develop in themselves and give to others.

I just don't think you and some of your compatriots are the sort of role models that I would find useful in my continuing Christian experience.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could think that ridicule, mockery and unkindness are something a Christian would want to develop in themselves and give to others.

Where have you experienced ridicule, mockery and unkindness in these posts? I’d like to know.

Asking you questions may make you uncomfortable, but it wasn’t done with unkindness.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't think you are sorry. From all my observations, I am coming to find that this appears to be a fairly typical behavior. I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could think that ridicule, mockery and unkindness are something a Christian would want to develop in themselves and give to others.

I just don't think you and some of your compatriots are the sort of role models that I would find useful in my continuing Christian experience.

You know you may be right. Yes, I'm sorry I laughed out loud. I really need to control that. So I apologize.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Where have you experienced ridicule, mockery and unkindness in these posts? I’d like to know.

Asking you questions may make you uncomfortable, but it wasn’t done with unkindness.

@Dan From Smithville , are you aware I’ve been accused of ignorance, or willful disingenuousness?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hope you change your mind. In actuality, and I say this with sadness, one's reluctance to own up to their professed religion as to belief is sad indeed. Some think of psychological disconnect. I have given great thought to this matter, and here's what I will say after all these discussions, for which I thank you all -- there are some things not easy to understand. The holy scriptures declare this, I'm sure you are aware of that. And seemingly, according to history, mankind has many forms of religion. Therefore I conclude that the idea of belief in God is greater than you or I can control because of the magnitude of creation -- yes, creation -- and the desire to keep living rather than dying. That is a fundamental. Just like the moon is there. It is a fundamental that mankind has a history of various religious beliefs. And yes, there are atheists declaring also there is no God. And then, of course, there are agnostics.

I have not failed to own up to my religion and beliefs. In fact, I have held to my beliefs and they guide me to honestly, objectively and careful observe the Work of God and to learn how to study it, understand it and share that knowledge. I don't lie to myself out of blind adherence to the doctrines of man and pretend evidence doesn't exist or that reasonable conclusions must be ignored for no good reason.

The thing is, my beliefs are not the subject here and they shouldn't be if the discussion is honest and the point is to support and explain the claims that are the subject here.

Twisting this to be about me and what I believe just doesn't seem right to me. It isn't a part any Christian teaching I ever received.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

@Dan From Smithville , are you aware I’ve been accused of ignorance, or willful disingenuousness?

What am I supposed to do with that? Fall down at your feet and say that because you received criticism that it is right for you to attack and demean me? Treat me unkindly, because your feelings got hurt after someone pointed out that your rhetoric against science reveals ignorance?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

If so, then why do you believe in a god? Does science support your belief?

Is that such a difficult question?

If I were an atheist, a Buddhist, a Muslim, or...whatever, it has no more relevance to advancing your claims any more than the fact of my Christianity does. Turning the discussion to me is wrong. Attacking my beliefs serves no valid purpose to support your claims.

What am I supposed to do when you cannot support your claims or refuse to answer questions you don't like and can't answer and turn to attacking my beliefs as a response? Am I supposed to whither away? Deny my understanding of science or even that the evidence exists? Pretend you haven't made errors or drawn conclusions based solely on doctrine rather than facts?

Personally, I think you have a lot to think about and consider in how you conduct yourselves. I haven't insinuated smarmy little claims about your Christianity through doubtful questions that are irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think I am done with this thread. There is nothing here for me.

I wish you all well. I hope that you may find enlightenment not only about the world, but about yourselves as well.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What is logical to believe, that unguided, unintelligent processes can create novel patterns of functional design?

Or have we discovered, in so many fields of science other than biology, that whenever we observe functional information, an intelligent entity obviously created it?

Always an intelligence. Never has it ever been observed that novel functional information arose through natural methods.

Therein lies the precedence in recognizing the origin of functional design. Except in biology….

??