Why are there still Monkeys?

[McBell]

There is no contradiction between religion and science.

until you are asked where god came from...

There are many theistic scientists striving for the truth while still believing in God.

Yes there are.
And the best ones leave their beliefs at the door when they go to work...

Actually God asked us to observe the universe and how amazing it is.

Bold empty claim.

 

[FearGod]

until you are asked where god came from...

And where did you come from.
sperm,egg or both
where have you been before you were born or you just came out of nothing ?
Knowing yourself spiritually may help you.

Yes there are.
And the best ones leave their beliefs at the door when they go to work...

What difference it makes ? just to exclude God and to look for any other options such as the stone.

Bold empty claim.

To observe and study the universe is an empty claim.

 

[Thief]

Nice opinion but no substance behind it. Nothing we know of subtance matter or energy assumes it was ever static to begin with. Easier to assume dynamic substance than bringing in a magical mover.

Basic laws of motion....not opinion.

If ever you see something move on it's own....no kind of push....
you are no longer part of this reality.

Look over your shoulder.

 

[Thief]

The improbability argument is ridiculous.
If one model out of a trillion possible models manifests, it's absurd to conclude that that model was consciously chosen, even though the chances were a trillion-to-one. The chances of any of them manifesting were a trillion-to-one.

Perhaps all possibilities manifest, and the few that are capable of sustaining life simply do what their particular physics allows. There's no reason for the beings that chanced to develop in these to consider themselves consciously "chosen."

The probability --chance-- that a particular rock should be lying in a particular position in a particular field at a particular time must be trillions to one, yet, despite the astronomical chances against it, every rock you see is a trillion-to-one "miracle."

Miracle?.....yeah.

This rock we live on would be such a miracle.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Are you implying that most theists are stupid? There are a lot of deistic and pantheistic scientists out there, some of them world renowned. Physics isn't the be all to end all of knowledge out there, it can't even begin to address consciousness.

Maybe you should read less Victor Stenger and more Paul Davies.

That is not what I am saying at all, nor have I made such a claim. You have missed the point of my post entirely, same as "Fear God" did.

The observation is straightforward and simple: Fear God is ardently and stubbornly clinging to his beliefs in spite of evidence presented to him. That is observable and clear.

The "Stupid" label is something that someone would falsely perceive in that statement. I made no reference to his intelligence; his ability to learn, retain what he has learned, solve problems, etc.

I did not call him, you, or theist in general, or anyone else "stupid".

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Are you implying that most theists are stupid? There are a lot of deistic and pantheistic scientists out there, some of them world renowned. Physics isn't the be all to end all of knowledge out there, it can't even begin to address consciousness.

Maybe you should read less Victor Stenger and more Paul Davies.

True.

In fact, at present, scientists can't even agree on a definition of "conscious" that is acceptable for study and experimentation in scientific terms.

Therefore, no assumptions should be made; instead, consciousness requires a scientific definition, then the research and experimentation begins. The results lead to wherever they lead: Be it Physics, Biochemistry, Brain activity, Soul, Spirit or God.

 

[McBell]

And where did you come from.
sperm,egg or both
where have you been before you were born or you just came out of nothing ?
Knowing yourself spiritually may help you.

:biglaugh:
So, are you going to answer the question?

What difference it makes ? just to exclude God and to look for any other options such as the stone.

You will need to rephrase this so that it makes sense.

To observe and study the universe is an empty claim.

I understand that you have great difficulty with reading comprehension.
Perhaps if you read it again it will dawn on you tha tit is the "God says" part that is the bold empty claim?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Which facts,observations and adequate evidence that you have to prove that my faith in God to be wrong.

You believe that the unconscious nature had did it whereas i believe instead of your stupid thoughts of randomness and chances that an intelligent supernatural entity had did it.

Tell me then who is the stupid.:sarcastic

Neither of us are "stupid". You show analytical ability, command of communication skills, problem solving skills, debating ability. All of these are marks of intelligence.

Your misconception pesists: that I and others believe that it is mere "randomness and chances" that explains our existence. I have iterated several times that I believe it is natural processes that drove creation with some chance involved. Yet you persist.

Misconception does not mean "stupid"; neither does Delusional, Irrational, and the dozens of other words you incorrectly associate as statements about your intelligence.

Everyone, regardless of intelligence, is susceptible to hallucinations, delusions and reasoning errors.

 

[Thief]

Really?
Did he show his math, including where and how he got the numbers he used?
No?
Then how the hell does he know?

Yeah he did....too bad the documentary was years ago.
Can't recall the guy's name.....ooops!

But you know me....don't you?
There won't be a photo, a fingerprint, no EQUATION, and no repeatable experiment.

You have to THINK about God.

 

[FearGod]

Neither of us are "stupid". You show analytical ability, command of communication skills, problem solving skills, debating ability. All of these are marks of intelligence.

Your misconception pesists: that I and others believe that it is mere "randomness and chances" that explains our existence. I have iterated several times that I believe it is natural processes that drove creation with some chance involved. Yet you persist.

Misconception does not mean "stupid"; neither does Delusional, Irrational, and the dozens of other words you incorrectly associate as statements about your intelligence.

Everyone, regardless of intelligence, is susceptible to hallucinations, delusions and reasoning errors.

What evidence and observations you have ?

What was before nature ?

Eternal nothingness or eternal supernatural entity.

Do you think that singularity came to existence out of nothing ? and if there was a thing then the question arise "where did that thing come from".

Do you have other options than "nothingness that always existed" or "a supernatural entity that always existed" ?

I won't be stubborn if you got rational answers.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

What evidence and observations you have ?

What was before nature ?

Eternal nothingness or eternal supernatural entity.

Do you think that singularity came to existence out of nothing ? and if there was a thing then the question arise "where did that thing come from".

Do you have other options than "nothingness that always existed" or "a supernatural entity that always existed" ?

I won't be stubborn if you got rational answers.

I have no answer to any of these questions, and I don't believe science does either. They're working on it and I await with great anticipation.

 

[idav]

What evidence and observations you have ?

What was before nature ?

Eternal nothingness or eternal supernatural entity.

Do you think that singularity came to existence out of nothing ? and if there was a thing then the question arise "where did that thing come from".

Do you have other options than "nothingness that always existed" or "a supernatural entity that always existed" ?

I won't be stubborn if you got rational answers.

We can be rational all day but the answers to your question require rational guesses at best. Throwing in a supernatural entity, I am not sure it is an invisible pink unicorn at least the multiverse theory is more plausible but still fails to answer.

Why is there existence rather than nothing? Why is there god rather than no god?

 

[Mycroft]

What evidence and observations you have ?

I already showed you the Italian Wall Lizards who evolved over 10 years. You, conveniently, chose to completely ignore it.

Do you have other options than "nothingness that always existed" or "a supernatural entity that always existed" ?

When those of the religious set are asked, 'What made God?' their answer is often 'Nothing. God was always there, eternally.' How is that any less ridiculous than the idea that something came from nothing?

But we are still investigating the 'before the universe' period. How about 'nothingness doesn't necessarily mean nothing'? The Existence of Nothing is an ongoing debate among scientists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh-pY3hJnY

 

[FearGod]

I already showed you the Italian Wall Lizards who evolved over 10 years. You, conveniently, chose to completely ignore it.

What that to do with our discussion for the starting point "singularity"

When those of the religious set are asked, 'What made God?' their answer is often 'Nothing. God was always there, eternally.' How is that any less ridiculous than the idea that something came from nothing?

But we are still investigating the 'before the universe' period. How about 'nothingness doesn't necessarily mean nothing'? The Existence of Nothing is an ongoing debate among scientists:

Because when speaking about God then we are speaking about supernatural thing and hence we can't understand it according to our natural sciences.

 

[McBell]

Yeah he did....too bad the documentary was years ago.
Can't recall the guy's name.....ooops!

So it is merely yet another bold empty claim from you?

But you know me....don't you?
There won't be a photo, a fingerprint, no EQUATION, and no repeatable experiment.

You have to THINK about God.

And what of those who have thought about god and come to a different conclusion than you?

 

[Bunyip]

What that to do with our discussion for the starting point "singularity"



Because when speaking about God then we are speaking about supernatural thing and hence we can't understand it according to our natural sciences.

Why would the singularity need to come from anywhere? That doesn't make sense, if the universe expanded from a singularity - there would be nowhere for it to come from and no need for a total energy of zero (the net energy of the universe) to come from anywhere anyway.

I don't see how it makes sense to you to imagine that a total energy of nothing needs to come from anywhere. It is not an argument against evolution or for god - it is just a misconception.

 

[viole]

It's a common question asked of me: WHY R THUR STILL MUNKEES!? They cry.

For the same reason that there is still dirt, dust of the ground, or whatever God used to create humans from scratch.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ruffen]

What evidence and observations you have ?

If you mean evidence for evolution? Then the answer is none, you'll just have to take it on faith.

What, isn't taking it on faith good enough? And still you are religious?

Nah. There is plenty of observable evidence for evolution by random mutation and natural selection.

- bacteria cultures becoming resistent to antibiotics
- Peppered moth evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- fossil evidence of gradual change and species splitting off into different species
- DNA evidence that animals are related to different degrees (ie. we have more DNA in common with chimps than with elephants, but more in common with elephants than with trees)

Just to name some off the top of my head.

 

[ruffen]

Because when speaking about God then we are speaking about supernatural thing and hence we can't understand it according to our natural sciences.

Then how can we understand it an know it exists?

 

[FearGod]

Why would the singularity need to come from anywhere? That doesn't make sense, if the universe expanded from a singularity - there would be nowhere for it to come from and no need for a total energy of zero (the net energy of the universe) to come from anywhere anyway.

I don't see how it makes sense to you to imagine that a total energy of nothing needs to come from anywhere. It is not an argument against evolution or for god - it is just a misconception.

I didn't find better words than "fiddle-faddle" for what you had said.