Why are White People the ones who get called racists?

[Storm]

And what do they have in common with one another that makes you feel proud to be part of this group? After all, the different "light-skinned peoples" of Europe have been pretty much constantly at war with one another for centuries.

I ask because using the word "white" at all is very far removed from my own mentality, particularly in the context of group identification and pride. That alone was enough to make me wonder what you've been reading, even without your use of symbols and ideas that are common among white nationalists.

For what it's worth, I don't doubt your sincerity and I apologize for being rude. I would still like to understand where you're coming from.

It makes about as much sense as pride in any other ethnicity.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

And what do they have in common with one another that makes you feel proud to be part of this group? After all, the different "light-skinned peoples" of Europe have been pretty much constantly at war with one another for centuries.

I ask because using the word "white" at all is very far removed from my own mentality, particularly in the context of group identification and pride. That alone was enough to make me wonder what you've been reading, even without your use of symbols and ideas that are common among white nationalists.

For what it's worth, I don't doubt your sincerity and I apologize for being rude. I would still like to understand where you're coming from.

All people around the world have been at war with each other for centuries. That's why I support the group identification. All people of one race can form under that common identity, while respecting all the others. Maybe it's idealistic, and not practical, because I know of the corruption and horrible people around the world, who would use that to "better their race" or destroy another. And I understand why you dislike that.

What makes me proud is that I am connected to someone, and "white" people have created many marvelous things and have formulated many amazing ideals. I like the group identification, I love the ancient cultures of Europe. That's why I am proud. And likewise, as I have said many times before, if I was African or Middle Eastern or whatever, I'd be equally as proud. Algebra came from Arabic people, if I am not mistaken, which is definitely worth being proud of. Maybe I shouldn't use the term white, but it is the most common. Yeah it's probably not the best thing, but at the time I didn't think it through.

And I would say that the symbols and ideas that White Nationalists use are in common with Heathenism, and not the other way around. After all, they took and perverted those symbols. And that's what I hate, because when some people see those symbols, they associate you with those negative groups. And it is really degrading. Or, you think you have found someone like you, who has the same beliefs as you, and then you find out they are White Supremacists, and you want nothing to do with them. That's just plain disappointing.

I do believe that there are different races, I know some people don't. But I love that there are different races, and different cultures. It's what makes the world a great place for me, minus all the racism and violence. If there were no different cultures, I don't know how happy I'd be. That's what I love learning about.


I accept your apology, as I know you are sincere about it. I just hope you don't assume someone is a White Nationalist because of their symbols.

And actually, I have noticed that none of the other Heathens use those symbols. (Maybe some do.) That may be part of my own naivete, after all, I'm 17 and don't think of those things to much. I just thought I'd make an avatar that had to do with my religion, and that was the first thing I thought of. With the Vinland thing, I just did that because I have a fascination with the Vikings, and that was their term for the New World, and it was close to the area that I live. Again, maybe that was a bad decision on my part.

I just want to think of a world where these symbols are no longer regarded as negative.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

It makes about as much sense as pride in any other ethnicity.

I don't see a problem with pride. Not until it becomes violent or hateful.

 

[J2hapydna]

In my ethics class today, we learned about hate crimes. From a study on the average person who commits a hate crime, the average hate crime-er was described as usually Neo-Nazi or a Skinhead. Why are white people the racists? There are plenty of nonwhites who commit equally heinous crimes.

The European 'whites' belonged to the dominant culture- those who did the most abusing by constructing laws and governments to enforce those abuses. Everyone else was reacting to them.

African Americans have the NAACP. That's not racist. If a white person tried to make an organization like that, it would be racist. There are school African American Clubs, Asian Clubs, Latino Clubs, but no Caucasian clubs. If we tried to make one, we'd probably be taken to court.

These are considered reactions to the society of whites only club.

When filling out applications or taking standardized tests that ask for your race, they list African American, Native American, Hispanic, Alaskan Native, etc, and then they list White. Why doesn't political correctness apply to white people?

That was how Europeans chose to describe themselves.

When a White person calls an African American the "N" word, that's racist. But if an African American calls a White person a Cracker, or a Honkey, it isn't racist.

Once again, whites belonged to the group that was in postion to and did the abusing, the other belongs to a group that was too weak to systematically abuse.

So why are only White People portrayed as racists?

Because systematic racism of whites in our societies hurt non whites. Racism of non whites did not hurt white people as much. (because non whites were unable to modify laws and legalize their prejudices)

For people who may want to interpret this as me trying to show that it's okay to be racist or whatever, you're wrong. I do not support racism. I will not lie, I am very proud to be a White person. However, if I was of African Descent, Asian, or Hispanic, I'd be equally proud. You should be proud of your ancestry, but not to the point that you think yours is better than another's.

I just think that things shouldn't be applied to only minorities, or only majorities. If that makes sense

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, you have to remember that in a democracy the majority has many avenues to change laws with voting that minorities do not have.

 

[Alceste]

All people around the world have been at war with each other for centuries. That's why I support the group identification. All people of one race can form under that common identity, while respecting all the others. Maybe it's idealistic, and not practical, because I know of the corruption and horrible people around the world, who would use that to "better their race" or destroy another. And I understand why you dislike that.

The main reason is that there is no empirical basis for the concept of "race". It's a throwback to an earlier, more ignorant and more violent time, when slavery, cultural genocide, colonialist violence and anti-Semitism were rampant and widely endorsed at every level of government, society and academia.

I have few problems with group identification, but would prefer that it be based on meaningful personal characteristics as opposed to something as arbitrary as skin colour or ethnicity. For example, to say I am proud of my Russian blood would be to imply that I identify with Stalin's "group" more than I do with Nelson Mandela's. In truth, I have far more in common with Mandela than Stalin, so the "group" I most strongly identify with is democratic socialists, regardless of their geographic location.

What makes me proud is that I am connected to someone, and "white" people have created many marvelous things and have formulated many amazing ideals. I like the group identification, I love the ancient cultures of Europe. That's why I am proud. And likewise, as I have said many times before, if I was African or Middle Eastern or whatever, I'd be equally as proud. Algebra came from Arabic people, if I am not mistaken, which is definitely worth being proud of. Maybe I shouldn't use the term white, but it is the most common. Yeah it's probably not the best thing, but at the time I didn't think it through.

Well, if the designation "white" is common and accepted enough where you live to be appearing on government-endorsed forms, I don't suppose you can be blamed.

The sentiments you express here are pretty harmless at first glance, but I would like to point out that the "separate but equal" mentality based on these ideals (that every "race" should theoretically be proud to identify with others of the same "race") led to some pretty appalling and socially harmful public policies, such as apartheid and anti-miscegenation laws.

And I would say that the symbols and ideas that White Nationalists use are in common with Heathenism, and not the other way around. After all, they took and perverted those symbols. And that's what I hate, because when some people see those symbols, they associate you with those negative groups. And it is really degrading. Or, you think you have found someone like you, who has the same beliefs as you, and then you find out they are White Supremacists, and you want nothing to do with them. That's just plain disappointing.

Yep, that's probably a pain in the butt, and please excuse me for falling into that trap. I do watch what the white nationalists (who behave in a very covert and indirect manner, which only adds to the confusion) are up to from time to time, so my first inclination is to associate these symbols with Stormfront members.

The unfortunate truth is that once a gang of knuckle-dragging mouth breathers appropriates your symbols for their racist flags and T-shirts you pretty much have to find another symbol. You don't see many of our Jain members using the swastika for an avatar, although it remains one of the most important symbols of their faith. While annoying, it does help avoid confusion in a forum like this where people are prone to jump to conclusions. (naming no names. )

I do believe that there are different races, I know some people don't. But I love that there are different races, and different cultures. It's what makes the world a great place for me, minus all the racism and violence. If there were no different cultures, I don't know how happy I'd be. That's what I love learning about.

I am also a big fan of cultural diversity. Just as bio-diversity is nature's insurance policy, cultural diversity is humanity's best shot at longevity. However, that doesn't mean the 19th century idea of there being distinct "races" has any scientific merit whatsoever. On the balance, the idea of "race" has caused far more human suffering than any other, except maybe "religion". This is why I dismiss it.

I just want to think of a world where these symbols are no longer regarded as negative.

Can't be helped, I'm afraid. People are ********. Once the biggest ******** get hold of your ideology and symbolism they can contaminate it forever by virtue of their bastardly deeds. Your options are to stick with the subverted symbols while understanding you may have to explain yourself from time to time or try to stay a step ahead by finding symbols for your faith they haven't yet laid hands on.

 

[TrodtoZion]

Go **** yourself. Slavery had nothing to do with racism until America. So you can't call slave owners racists. Cruel, yes. Racist, no.

hahaha wow you are being so defensive of your racist ways i cant believe it fiyah bun you

 

[TrodtoZion]

Sounds like some people have a hefty victimhood mojo going on.
It helps them blame their personal failures on a scapegoat.
Yeah, bad things happened & continue to happen. Succeed in spite of it.
It just won't accomplish anything to try to get me to feel guilty or beholden.

I am not trying to make you feel gulity, just saying it as it is but InI will not be brainwashed by your white system that you love so much

 

[Revoltingest]

I am not trying to make you feel gulity, just saying it as it is but InI will not be brainwashed by your white system that you love so much

You're prolly a bigger fan of it than I am. You got dat smell of defeat in you.
If'n you haven't fought the system & made yer money yet, then yer part of it.

 

[painted wolf]

Go **** yourself. Slavery had nothing to do with racism until America. So you can't call slave owners racists. Cruel, yes. Racist, no.

Actually, yes... you can call slave owners in America racists... they produced the majority of the literature used today by racist groups like the Aryan Nation and KKK as a way to justify keeping blacks as slaves.

The whole system was predicated on the idea that they were less human than their masters. That is in a nutshell... racist.

Did it start racist... It was more likely economic barbarism to start with, but otherwise good people needed to justify their actions. What better way than to convince yourself that your human property was somehow less human than yourself.

Even Jefferson and Lincoln were racist despite wanting freedom for all men. Neither beleived that blacks were capable of living among white people as equals but should be given their own nation and looked after, as part of the "white mans burden".

wa:do

 

[TrodtoZion]

You're prolly a bigger fan of it than I am. You got dat smell of defeat in you.
If'n you haven't fought the system & made yer money yet, then yer part of it.

You havent even addressed my points you just say some nonseensical thing then you claim victory. Sorry bro rasta never get defeated.

 

[ChristineES]

I am not white, I am 1/2 Navajo and 1/2 European descent (Italian, Russian and German Jew). I don't understand why people should be "ashamed" of being of European descent- not all "whites" (for lack of a better term) had slaves, not all "whites" condoned it even when it was still being done in the USA before 1865. Since not all "whites" are descended from people who owned slaves (I learned not long ago in a college American History class that 25% of "whites" even owned any) then why should they feel guilty. Even if their ancestors did indeed own any, it doesn't mean that they would, even then or now. I agree we can't forget History, but it is time to stop blaming each others' ancestors from 140 years ago or more.

 

[Alceste]

I am not white, I am 1/2 Navajo and 1/2 European descent (Italian, Russian and German Jew). I don't understand why people should be "ashamed" of being of European descent- not all "whites" (for lack of a better term) had slaves, not all "whites" condoned it even when it was still being done in the USA before 1865. Since not all "whites" are descended from people who owned slaves (I learned not long ago in a college American History class that 25% of "whites" even owned any) then why should they feel guilty. Even if their ancestors did indeed own any, it doesn't mean that they would, even then or now. I agree we can't forget History, but it is time to stop blaming each others' ancestors from 140 years ago or more.

I think we should be neither proud nor ashamed. We should simply do our best to be aware.

 

[ChristineES]

I think we should be neither proud nor ashamed. We should simply do our best to be aware.

Sure, even the Bible says "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit goeth before a fall" But I don't think people need be ashamed, either, of who they are born.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Actually, yes... you can call slave owners in America racists... they produced the majority of the literature used today by racist groups like the Aryan Nation and KKK as a way to justify keeping blacks as slaves.

The whole system was predicated on the idea that they were less human than their masters. That is in a nutshell... racist.

Did it start racist... It was more likely economic barbarism to start with, but otherwise good people needed to justify their actions. What better way than to convince yourself that your human property was somehow less human than yourself.

Even Jefferson and Lincoln were racist despite wanting freedom for all men. Neither beleived that blacks were capable of living among white people as equals but should be given their own nation and looked after, as part of the "white mans burden".

wa:do

I know American slave owners were racists. That cannot be denied. However, TrodToZion was saying that slavery was a racial thing. It was only racial in America. The Romans had slaves, as did many other Europeans in the Ancient Times. The thing is that they enslaved other Europeans, and it was more because of them surrendering or being overtaken by the stronger force. It had nothing to do with race until it was brought to America

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

The main reason is that there is no empirical basis for the concept of "race". It's a throwback to an earlier, more ignorant and more violent time, when slavery, cultural genocide, colonialist violence and anti-Semitism were rampant and widely endorsed at every level of government, society and academia.

I have few problems with group identification, but would prefer that it be based on meaningful personal characteristics as opposed to something as arbitrary as skin colour or ethnicity. For example, to say I am proud of my Russian blood would be to imply that I identify with Stalin's "group" more than I do with Nelson Mandela's. In truth, I have far more in common with Mandela than Stalin, so the "group" I most strongly identify with is democratic socialists, regardless of their geographic location.

Well, if the designation "white" is common and accepted enough where you live to be appearing on government-endorsed forms, I don't suppose you can be blamed.

The sentiments you express here are pretty harmless at first glance, but I would like to point out that the "separate but equal" mentality based on these ideals (that every "race" should theoretically be proud to identify with others of the same "race") led to some pretty appalling and socially harmful public policies, such as apartheid and anti-miscegenation laws.

Yep, that's probably a pain in the butt, and please excuse me for falling into that trap. I do watch what the white nationalists (who behave in a very covert and indirect manner, which only adds to the confusion) are up to from time to time, so my first inclination is to associate these symbols with Stormfront members.

The unfortunate truth is that once a gang of knuckle-dragging mouth breathers appropriates your symbols for their racist flags and T-shirts you pretty much have to find another symbol. You don't see many of our Jain members using the swastika for an avatar, although it remains one of the most important symbols of their faith. While annoying, it does help avoid confusion in a forum like this where people are prone to jump to conclusions. (naming no names. )

I am also a big fan of cultural diversity. Just as bio-diversity is nature's insurance policy, cultural diversity is humanity's best shot at longevity. However, that doesn't mean the 19th century idea of there being distinct "races" has any scientific merit whatsoever. On the balance, the idea of "race" has caused far more human suffering than any other, except maybe "religion". This is why I dismiss it.

Can't be helped, I'm afraid. People are ********. Once the biggest ******** get hold of your ideology and symbolism they can contaminate it forever by virtue of their bastardly deeds. Your options are to stick with the subverted symbols while understanding you may have to explain yourself from time to time or try to stay a step ahead by finding symbols for your faith they haven't yet laid hands on.

Maybe using the term "race" is wrong and I shouldn't use it, yeah. But I think there is some scientific merit for it. For example, Sickle Cell Anemia is prominent in people of African descent. But maybe that isn't necessarily race, I don't know. I am not a science guy. I'm more of a history buff. And I do know that race didn't really come about in the Old days, like Ancient days. It came about in the 17th century I think.


I do apologize if I offended anyone, I wasn't trying to, honestly. And for the whole separate but equal deal, I don't believe in separate. I just like the idea of being able to identify with ethnically similar (?) people. I am truly sorry if I seemed like a covert Stormfront member


When I get old enough, I am going to try to start a campaign to regain these religious symbols. The Swastika was also used by a few Heathens in the old days as well.

For the meantime, I think I'll change my avatar, to avoid further confusion

And thank you Alceste for discussing this. You have open my eyes more, I will admit it. Being a 17 year old, with the whole "I'm always right" mindset, I can get in trouble for certain things But I do thank you for your conversation.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

And another thing that may have added to the confusion. I want to feel connected to my Ancient Ancestors, like, Tribal Germanic people. You know, Saxons, Franks, Angles, as well as Celts. That's what I meant by wanting to identify. So maybe I should have clarified that. When you talked about being proud of your Russian blood, I thought of like the Slavs who lived in Russia thousands of years ago. Until I read further to you mentioning Stalin. That might be my twisted view of Europe. When I think of Europe, I think of Pagan Europe, excluding the more advanced Rome and Greece. Not modern day "whites".

 

[Revoltingest]

You havent even addressed my points you just say some nonseensical thing then you claim victory. Sorry bro rasta never get defeated.

I win nothing. I just think you should get over being a victim.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I think we should be neither proud nor ashamed. We should simply do our best to be aware.

Agreed.

 

[Riverwolf]

***MOD POST***
Thread closed for mod review
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