Why Are You Not an Atheist?

[sun rise]

Sense, feeling? A feeling there exists more to life?

I've found feelings not trustworthy. Not that they are wrong but by themselves they are not enough to justify a belief. So while I may feel that your position is wrong, that feeling alone doesn't justify a belief that you are wrong. I would need collaborating evidence, IMO, to justify it as something to be believed in.

IOW while what I choose to believe may not itself be fact, it should be supported by some facts. The more the better obviously. That's just how I see it. I not saying it as something you need to accept.

You're right that it's a very tricky situation. And feelings can lead one astray as you noted.

But the best the intellect can do is to ask questions and construct theories such as: Either there is an ultimate meaning in life or there is not. If life does not have an ultimate meaning and purpose, then any sense of meaning is just accidental and fleeting.

If life has an ultimate meaning, then the question becomes why does it have an ultimate meaning? And how does what goes on fit into the realization of that ultimate meaning? And how did that ultimate meaning come to be part of the universe?

This can go on and on with questions leading to more questions. That to me is enough to convince me that the mind can't answer the question because there's an unprovable root assumption somewhere along the way.

 

[Nakosis]

I grew up in Christianity, heavily influenced by Southern Baptists, with a maternal side of the family that was, I guess, "strong with the Force", so to speak. Like, we just kinda assumed everyone sensed the spiritual because we did (at least the women).

As I've been aging, I have realized that the God of the Bible is a literary character, but that doesn't preclude Someone or Something behind the spiritual things I feel. It might not even be the God I've been taught for all I know. After all, I feel that True Power has no real name. I completely understand that what I feel is not scientifically measurable (I guess you could see my brain activity, but that doesn't tell you the source of the activity -- yet). I also feel that if people aren't sensing the divine, that's the divine's fault, not the person's.

What is the sense of the divine?

I suppose I know having felt I sensed the divine as well. I lost my trust in what I sense as divinity. Once lost, I suspect it is impossible to recover.

This inner spiritual world. I'm in a way the source of it as I see it. It is possible for me to create the sense of divinity through my subconscious mind. Being aware of conscious causation takes the fun out of it.

If I can consciously cause these feelings I don't see a need for a belief in an external source.

BTW, I'm not directly criticising your position, just stating where I am at.

 

[Deeje]

First of all, can I ask why it takes three posts to say absolutely nothing? Bored were we?

It is weird yes, and, weird to deny it.

Who denied it?

Naieve to deny some invite it.

Those people have a problem. If it doesn't come from causing no offense, then it was deserved. You know, like bombing an abortion clinic.

"Possession of all"

"Possession"?

What a weird thing to call it.

According to one dictionary..."Possession" means...."The state of having, owning, or controlling something....Visible power or control over something, as distinct from lawful ownership.....Something that is owned or possessed.....The state of being completely dominated by an idea or emotion."

Under those definitions, people "possess" faith. OK.......English 101. Perhaps try a dictionary before posting in ignorance....?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

Was never atheist, except at moments of frustration. I am a theist 2 ways. I think what keeps me as a classical hard theist though sort of an agnostic theist are my thoughts about fractals and about that principle that causes waves in a wire to be repeated at a smaller scale than the originals. Things have echoes, and those have more echoes analogous to harmonics in music. The branch is like a tree, and the tree is like a branch. The branch is evidence of the tree. The other way that I am a theist is that I commit to seeing deity in others, which is an ancient form of atheism but is panentheist in modern times.

 

[Nakosis]

Was never atheist, except at moments of frustration. I am a theist 2 ways. I think what keeps me as a classical hard theist though sort of an agnostic theist are my thoughts about fractals and about that principle that causes waves in a wire to be repeated at a smaller scale than the originals. Things have echoes, and those have more echoes analogous to harmonics in music. The branch is like a tree, and the tree is like a branch. The branch is evidence of the tree. The other way that I am a theist is that I commit to seeing deity in others, which is an ancient form of atheism but is panentheist in modern times.

So the idea is that we are a reflection or echo of something greater? I suppose it would seem intuitive to think there exists something greater than ourselves.

This maybe true but what do I know about it. I know what you are talking about but what you talk about as examples can be tested verified.

I really have no knowledge to base a belief on what this possible thing which is greater then ourselves might be. If we somehow discover it, test and verify it, would we even call it God? I understand in lacking knowledge perhaps we call it God. However what if it turns out to be other than what we expected?

As a atheist, I am simply accepting my ignorance and take a position that there is no knowledge to base a theistic belief on.

 

[Cooky]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

I am a Catholic because I come from a very long line of Catholic ancestry, and do not wish to be seperate from my forefathers, mothers and siblings of many many generations past.

I also have a lot of Protestant ancestry. I figure, as a Catholic I can't really go wrong.

Also, I think life would be a cruel worthless joke if we were really brought into this world just to be given the final reward of achievement -Death! That's sick. Life should not do that to itself, and I would despise life for It's very existence of that were true.

 

[Audie]

First of all, can I ask why it takes three posts to say absolutely nothing? Bored were we?



Who denied it?



Those people have a problem. If it doesn't come from causing no offense, then it was deserved. You know, like bombing an abortion clinic.



According to one dictionary..."Possession" means...."The state of having, owning, or controlling something....Visible power or control over something, as distinct from lawful ownership.....Something that is owned or possessed.....The state of being completely dominated by an idea or emotion."

Under those definitions, people "possess" faith. OK.......English 101. Perhaps try a dictionary before posting in ignorance....?

Have to admit, you are quicker than me.

The depth of your character comes out
in the first few words.

 

[Cooky]

Atheists have suffered persecution by religious folks since before the word "atheist" existed.

I'm very sorry for your people. Nah, but on a serious note, there has always been some stupid and rude religious people. It's hard work keeping people on track, but we're trying.

 

[crossfire]

I'm not an atheist because I don't find the theism/atheism dichotomy very useful. I'm transtheistic.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Was never atheist, except at moments of frustration. I am a theist 2 ways. I think what keeps me as a classical hard theist though sort of an agnostic theist are my thoughts about fractals and about that principle that causes waves in a wire to be repeated at a smaller scale than the originals. Things have echoes, and those have more echoes analogous to harmonics in music. The branch is like a tree, and the tree is like a branch. The branch is evidence of the tree. The other way that I am a theist is that I commit to seeing deity in others, which is an ancient form of atheism but is panentheist in modern times.

what the heck do "fractals" and "waves in a wire" have to do with god/gods?

 

[Audie]

I am a Catholic because I come from a very long line of Catholic ancestry, and do not wish to be seperate from my forefathers, mothers and siblings of many many generations past.

I also have a lot of Protestant ancestry. I figure, as a Catholic I can't really go wrong.

Also, I think life would be a cruel worthless joke if we were really brought into this world just to be given the final reward of achievement -Death! That's sick. Life should not do that to itself, and I would despise life for It's very existence of that were true.

Of course it is ttue. "Sick" is to hate reality, and so grosly
disrespect the struggles and sacrifices of grnrrations
beyond number, that gave you your to be a person,
and live.

 

[Audie]

I'm not an atheist because I don't find the theism/atheism dichotomy very useful. I'm transtheistic.

And me, I think "theism" is ridiculous.

 

[Cooky]

Of course it is ttue. "Sick" is to hate reality, and so grosly
disrespect the struggles and sacrifices of grnrrations
beyond number, that gave you your to be a person,
and live.

But I hate death. So I must hate life because it leads to death.

...I don't want to die.

 

[Cooky]

"Sick" is to hate reality, and so grosly
disrespect the struggles and sacrifices of grnrrations
beyond number, that gave you your to be a person,
and live.

Screw them if that's the case. They didn't ask to be here on this earth either. If They're all just dead, then they don't exist. Some day humanity will be forgotten altogether.

What was it all for?

 

[Cooky]

What kind of life is so cruel, that it advances so far that it comprehends It's own inevitable death. I don't think other animals have to deal with that. The dung beetle surely doesn't.

I despise reality for It's insufficiencies. Therefore that is why I believe.

And even if I'm wrong, at least I'll go down with my middle finger raised to reality. That's my response to lives of final death.

 

[Cooky]

You know what I mean @Audie? Or don't you think like that?

 

[Audie]

Screw them if that's the case. They didn't ask to be here on this earth either. If They're all just dead, then they don't exist. Some day humanity will be forgotten altogether.

What was it all for?

Awww, I am really sad for you, that you
feel so. It is so alien to my thinking, anf
seem so unfortunate. I dont know that
a few posts on a forum could have the least
chance of you glimpsing a profoundly
different pov. Probably not. Maybe if
we met as castaways ona deserted island
and there is nothing else to do but gaze
upon ye wonders of sea and sky, and
talk about the meaning of it all.

Perhaps thd study / practice of mindfullness
would help you see the show.

Focus on your fancied pie in the sky,
miss what is here, now, real, and
you miss the only gift you ever get.

 

[Cooky]

Awww, I am really sad for you, that you
feel so. It is so alien to my thinking, anf
seem so unfortunate. I dont know that
a few posts on a forum could have the least
chance of you glimpsing a profoundly
different pov. Probably not. Maybe if
we met as castaways ona deserted island
and there is nothing else to do but gaze
upon ye wonders of sea and sky, and
talk about the meaning of it all.

Perhaps thd study / practice of mindfullness
would help you see the show.

Focus on your fancied pie in the sky,
miss what is here, now, real, and
you miss the only gift you ever get.

Not an ounce of rebeliousness in you. You really just think inside the box all the time?
But there is nothing liberating about Atheism. I know this because I ran a poll on it once and over 90% of the atheists claimed it "was not" liberating. Also, the wonders of the sea and sky are not exclusive to atheism.

But how does it feel to know that in about two generations after your death, you will be completely forgotten. All you've done, for absolutely nothing.

 

[Cooky]

...Your inevitable death is a serious issue. It's not going to be 'okay'.

 

[Audie]

Not an ounce of rebeliousness in you. You really just think inside the box all the time?
But there is nothing liberating about Atheism. I know this because I ran a poll on it once and over 90% of the atheists claimed it "was not" liberating. Also, the wonders of the sea and sky are not exclusive to atheism.

But how does it feel to know that in about two generations after your death, you will be completely forgotten. All you've done, for absolutely nothing.

Not an ounce of rebeliousness in you. You really just think inside the box all the time?
But there is nothing liberating about Atheism. I know this because I ran a poll on it once and over 90% of the atheists claimed it "was not" liberating. Also, the wonders of the sea and sky are not exclusive to atheism.

But how does it feel to know that in about two generations after your death, you will be completely forgotten. All you've done, for absolutely nothing.

I am not going to debate you.

Also, I am not remotely as you are
imagining me.

If you've no interest in alien thinking,
that's fine. I will stop feeling bad for
you, and just wish you luck.