Why aren’t we learning?

[YoursTrue]

Look at the OP again: "Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?" By materially I assume he meant scientific and technological progress. Weapon making is in his third category.

Do you know what social progress means? It appears not. I just told you what I considered examples of social progress and you returned to technology. Even in war, some social progress has been made. Look at the outcry regarding the bombing of Gaza. Look at the Geneva Conventions.

I asked you the following and you preferred to not answer, so I'll give you what I think is the case: "Why don't you know that? How did you manage to miss all of that? Did your church teach you that man has made no progress socially? Some denominations are like that - very negative in their outlooks."

Yes, you belong to one of the Christian denominations that teaches its adherents an extremely pessimist worldview. I presume that these are mostly fundamentalist Protestants of some sort. Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Methodists, for example typically don't see the world as negatively as you or those Jehovah's Witnesses I told you about. I don't know what other denominations are as pessimistic as the JWs, but I assume that they are not alone, so

There's another active thread about American politics in which yesterday, I wrote the following comment to a MAGA atheist, who also has an extremely pessimistic view of the world:

"My world is a happy one. I don't imbibe that conservative media, and I also don't let the pessimistic [religious] denominations tell me how bad life is. You dodged that second bullet, but the Republicans captured your mind and infected it with a very negative view of your world. Why don't you turn off your conservative media and try to be happier? It's doing you harm for nothing in return. You don't benefit at all from your state of mind. They do."

You seem to be the opposite. You dodged the negative political indoctrination, but it looks like your religion got to you instead. Fearmongering an effective tool for capturing susceptible minds. It keeps people thinking they need the kind of help that only the source of the indoctrination can provide to protect them from the danger they say is there. For the American conservatives, it's the Democrats and liberals that are the boogeymen, or the Communists. For the churches with an apocalyptic mindset, it's a different boogeyman - imminent world collapse and destruction followed by mass damnation.

Anyway, if that's not an accurate description of why you are so nihilistic - your religion teaches you that - feel free to amend it.

And feel free to disregard that teaching if you have a choice in the matter. They rob you of joy in exchange for the offer of protection from a problem they invented and only they have the antidote for. As I told the miserable conservative, my world is happy. I don't listen to either pessimistic conservative indoctrination or to pessimistic religious indoctrination.

Yes, I see the troubles in the world, but that's not all I see. I have hope for mankind. I believe that the rest of this century will be bad for humanity with the rise of authoritarianism threatening democracies and climate change threatening all life, but I see a positive future after that, when man scrubs the greenhouse gases from the atmosphere and humanism resumes reshaping the world for the better as freedom breaks through again as it did 2.5 centuries ago, when people successfully threw off the chains of authoritarianism (kings then) - this time, perhaps for good.

But today should be another beautiful and comfortable day just like yesterday and hopefully, tomorrow. And I am grateful for that and to all of the people that made and continue to make a good life possible.

And I have a spiritual connection to nature that Christianity undermines in susceptible adherents, as it redirects one's attention and gratitude out of the universe to a hoped-for deity and afterlife while demeaning the world and even flesh.

So good luck to you whatever you do.

I don't believe you have a true "spiritual connection" to nature. Be that as it may, I don't need luck. The way the world is now is not going to last. For that I am thankful.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I don't believe you have a true "spiritual connection" to nature.

Why not? Maybe you use the word differently than I do. For me, spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.

I feel connected to nature, a feeling that also inspires awe, gratitude, and a sense of mystery. An informed experience of the night sky begins with an understanding of what that drop of starlight signifies about its source and the times and distances involved to reach my retina and announce its existence, as well as understanding our connection to it as the source of the heavy elements that comprise our bodies and surroundings. And then comes the affective component - the spiritual experience which I've described as a blend of a sense of connection, belonging, mystery, awe, and gratitude. That's what an authentic spiritual experience is for me.

I cherish the beasts and the environment. My sense of connection to the rest of humanity has taken a hit in the last few years watching people acting out about elections and health mandates, but that reflects a decadent and decaying culture in one country. I still feel connected to posterity. As indicated, I expect man to move into a better place culturally after a major correction that lasts for several decades, perhaps twenty (two centuries), but perhaps many fewer.

The way the world is now is not going to last. For that I am thankful.

And there's that darkness, that pessimist, that nihilism. You're thankful that the world is not going to last? How about asking your god to save it rather than celebrating apocalypse and the extinction of life on earth?

So, do you consider yourself a spiritual person? You aren't by my definition of the word given your extreme pessimism and apparent lack of connection to our world and nature. Your loyalty is to another world you believe exists outside of nature and to an unseen deity. It sounds like you're anxiously awaiting death. I know that many Christians are. It's paradoxical to me to hear people refer to mindsets like that as spiritual. I liken it to somebody waiting at a bus stop to be taken away to a better place.

I assume that you don't like reading these opinions, but I can assure you that they're carefully considered, sincerely believed, and constructively offered. It would be nice for you to feel that missing sense of connection to and belonging in our world you once enjoyed and restore your hope for the future of the planet rather than hoping for its destruction.

 

[Spice]

@YoursTrue
Ahhh, viewing the wonders of nature are like touching God's hand!

 

[YoursTrue]

@YoursTrue
Ahhh, viewing the wonders of nature are like touching God's hand!

I can surely understand your viewpoint. There is so much to discover.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In harmony with your comment here, there are charities around the world, yet there is still hatred, homelessness, wars, crime, among other things that mankind cannot solve on their own.

Your above comment reminded me of the words found at Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9
It is not inside imperfect man to direct his step, so this is a reason why God had Jesus step in to give us a solution
Today is like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day. They were sincere in their corruption and proved sincerely wrong - Matt. 15:9

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I disagree. I think that humanity has made huge progress when it comes to social justice over the past 200 years, and even within my lifetime. As for 'spiritual' progress, I have no idea what that is. I've yet to have anyone give me a suitable definition of what spiritual or spirituality even means.

The opposite of spiritual is being materialistic in nature
A spiritual person would be a giving person like the neighborly good Samaritan. Not a greedy person.
A spiritual person would cultivate what is called the fruitage of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23
( love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith mildness and self control )
Christ-like love as defined at 1st Corinthians 13:4-6 and at John 13:34-35
Now to love neighbor MORE than self, love more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
A spiritual person would try to have the same self-sacrificing love for others just as Jesus has

 

[YoursTrue]

Your above comment reminded me of the words found at Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9
It is not inside imperfect man to direct his step, so this is a reason why God had Jesus step in to give us a solution
Today is like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day. They were sincere in their corruption and proved sincerely wrong - Matt. 15:9

Jesus spoke mainly to the Jews about the God of Israel (his God as well) and after his death and resurrection the message about the fulfillment of God's kingdom went out to many others, even with persecutions. Yes, Lord, "let your kingdom come..."

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not? Maybe you use the word differently than I do. For me, spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.

I feel connected to nature, a feeling that also inspires awe, gratitude, and a sense of mystery. An informed experience of the night sky begins with an understanding of what that drop of starlight signifies about its source and the times and distances involved to reach my retina and announce its existence, as well as understanding our connection to it as the source of the heavy elements that comprise our bodies and surroundings. And then comes the affective component - the spiritual experience which I've described as a blend of a sense of connection, belonging, mystery, awe, and gratitude. That's what an authentic spiritual experience is for me.

I cherish the beasts and the environment. My sense of connection to the rest of humanity has taken a hit in the last few years watching people acting out about elections and health mandates, but that reflects a decadent and decaying culture in one country. I still feel connected to posterity. As indicated, I expect man to move into a better place culturally after a major correction that lasts for several decades, perhaps twenty (two centuries), but perhaps many fewer.

And there's that darkness, that pessimist, that nihilism. You're thankful that the world is not going to last? How about asking your god to save it rather than celebrating apocalypse and the extinction of life on earth?

So, do you consider yourself a spiritual person? You aren't by my definition of the word given your extreme pessimism and apparent lack of connection to our world and nature. Your loyalty is to another world you believe exists outside of nature and to an unseen deity. It sounds like you're anxiously awaiting death. I know that many Christians are. It's paradoxical to me to hear people refer to mindsets like that as spiritual. I liken it to somebody waiting at a bus stop to be taken away to a better place.

I assume that you don't like reading these opinions, but I can assure you that they're carefully considered, sincerely believed, and constructively offered. It would be nice for you to feel that missing sense of connection to and belonging in our world you once enjoyed and restore your hope for the future of the planet rather than hoping for its destruction.

OK, I amend my reaction to your post. Many people love the outdoors. Or they like looking at lakes. I do. That is one reason why I believe God created many beautiful things for us to see and enjoy. HOWEVER -- in this life with its brevity it is a bit anguishing to think that one day we will be gone (dead) and not see these things. I do believe, hope and look forward to a future where humans and animals will enjoy a wonderful peaceful and well-run earth.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not? Maybe you use the word differently than I do. For me, spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.

I feel connected to nature, a feeling that also inspires awe, gratitude, and a sense of mystery. An informed experience of the night sky begins with an understanding of what that drop of starlight signifies about its source and the times and distances involved to reach my retina and announce its existence, as well as understanding our connection to it as the source of the heavy elements that comprise our bodies and surroundings. And then comes the affective component - the spiritual experience which I've described as a blend of a sense of connection, belonging, mystery, awe, and gratitude. That's what an authentic spiritual experience is for me.

I cherish the beasts and the environment. My sense of connection to the rest of humanity has taken a hit in the last few years watching people acting out about elections and health mandates, but that reflects a decadent and decaying culture in one country. I still feel connected to posterity. As indicated, I expect man to move into a better place culturally after a major correction that lasts for several decades, perhaps twenty (two centuries), but perhaps many fewer.

And there's that darkness, that pessimist, that nihilism. You're thankful that the world is not going to last? How about asking your god to save it rather than celebrating apocalypse and the extinction of life on earth?

So, do you consider yourself a spiritual person? You aren't by my definition of the word given your extreme pessimism and apparent lack of connection to our world and nature. Your loyalty is to another world you believe exists outside of nature and to an unseen deity. It sounds like you're anxiously awaiting death. I know that many Christians are. It's paradoxical to me to hear people refer to mindsets like that as spiritual. I liken it to somebody waiting at a bus stop to be taken away to a better place.

I assume that you don't like reading these opinions, but I can assure you that they're carefully considered, sincerely believed, and constructively offered. It would be nice for you to feel that missing sense of connection to and belonging in our world you once enjoyed and restore your hope for the future of the planet rather than hoping for its destruction.

One day this earth will be a paradise. I believe that. Isaiah wrote of this as did other Bible writers, including that at Revelation 21:1-5. So I believe we will enjoy life forever.

 

[alf]

Humanity fails because their morality is subjective and relative. That kind of morality is about doing whatever one believes or wants according to their pleasure, desire, want, whim, preference and hate. Humanity is blind to the universality, and objective truth of morality. No one wants to see the truth of things. The truth that is in the virtues. The truth in other people.

Humanity also does NOT have an eternal perspective. Humanity has an one life to live, and get out of my way attitude towards living. The default state of conviction is that life has no inherent meaning nor purpose, and nothingness is existence.

For the religious I would say, many religions claim the one true way without it being real and true. God or gods are made in the image of humanity.

One of the ultimate facts about reality is that no one really knows what this reality is. Experience is the only way we teach ourselves what is, and what is not.

Humanity has to conquer the material world to have any ability to alleviate the human condition. That's what science is for.

Humanity has competing convictions without the truth of spirituality to light the way.

In short humanity claims to know, when ' I don't know ' would be more honest.

Another thing is that our natural world is not suited for spiritual progress. It's suited for competition to survive, and our governments, social systems, and institutions reflect that competition.

I don't agree with your point of view.
The world and humanity in it are like the womb and seed of God.
Just as a man creates a man who throws millions of seeds into a woman, and only one fertilizes, so it is with the people of the world.
The world is a place where gods breed from humans. Humanity is the seed and one gets the reward and the majority will perish as described in the holy books and mythologies.
From your perception of reasoning you would call that god "destroyer of worlds".

Every man is a potential god, but every god also sacrifices himself and dies as a man in order to sow a seed from which a god will be born.
So in a circle.

Look at the world and humanity from a position where there is no time to look at the time interval. I hope you will see the beauty and the horror in it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

OK, I amend my reaction to your post.

Thank you.

Many people love the outdoors. Or they like looking at lakes. I do.

The authentic spiritual experience in my opinion is more than that. As I said, it includes a sense of connection to that lake and gratitude about its existence.

in this life with its brevity it is a bit anguishing to think that one day we will be gone (dead) and not see these things.

I thought the same once. Today, I accept that.

I do believe, hope and look forward to a future where humans and animals will enjoy a wonderful peaceful and well-run earth.

I hope so as well, although it surprises me to read that you do given your comment, "The way the world is now is not going to last. For that I am thankful." Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that.

You never did tell me what denomination of Christian you are. I seem to recall you saying that you were Baptist, but you reminded me of the Jehovah's Witnesses who came calling. Is that too personal for you to reveal?

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you.

The authentic spiritual experience in my opinion is more than that. As I said, it includes a sense of connection to that lake and gratitude about its existence.

I thought the same once. Today, I accept that.

I hope so as well, although it surprises me to read that you do given your comment, "The way the world is now is not going to last. For that I am thankful." Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that.

You never did tell me what denomination of Christian you are. I seem to recall you saying that you were Baptist, but you reminded me of the Jehovah's Witnesses who came calling. Is that too personal for you to reveal?

First let me say that when I say the world isn't going to last I mean the situation the world is in now. All wickedness and selfishness will be removed. That embraces a lot. Then Isaiah's prophecy will come true insofar as I believe. (I have no reason not to believe it, that's how I sometimes figure things...) Please notice: “And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand.”—Isaiah 11:6-8.
Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I am still learning and know I am imperfect. Looking forward --

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?

Humanity has yet failed to find its unity of mind. This unity of mind will.unlock the path to our full potential as a human species.

I just watched a 60 Minutes YouTube video on the pictures that the James Web Telscope is able to produce. During the presentation a scientist said that 95% of the universe is held in place by an unknown force, it is not gravity.


A Tablet written at the request of Bahá’u’lláh by Abdul'baha... James Web reflects Tablet of the Universe.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus spoke mainly to the Jews about the God of Israel (his God as well) and after his death and resurrection the message about the fulfillment of God's kingdom went out to many others, even with persecutions. Yes, Lord, "let your kingdom come..."

In elementary school above the blackboard were drawn pictures of the model Our Father prayer
As the prayer was recited I'd look at each picture corresponding to the words
Each day I wondered why there was No picture for ' thy kingdom come...... '
I was left with the impression the Kingdom was another word for Heaven, but that did Not make sense to me because we didn't say Our Father who art in Kingdom, thy Heaven come.....
Some one pointed out to me that the Kingdom of Jordan was a government, thus God's Kingdom is His government - Daniel 2:44

 

[URAVIP2ME]

First let me say that when I say the world isn't going to last I mean the situation the world is in now. All wickedness and selfishness will be removed. That embraces a lot. Then Isaiah's prophecy will come true insofar as I believe. (I have no reason not to believe it, that's how I sometimes figure things...) Please notice: “And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand.”—Isaiah 11:6-8.
Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I am still learning and know I am imperfect. Looking forward --

I see at www.jw.org is chock full of informative articles and videos to choose from a variety of subjects or topics all adding to one's fund of knowledge

 

[Spice]

I see at www.jw.org is chock full of informative articles and videos to choose from a variety of subjects or topics all adding to one's fund of knowledge

A clear sister correction. I am assuming you are a female as I have been directly told that brothers are not to speak with women even on the internet. But then again, I've also been advised that JWs have no business on an internet forum to start with, and especially one that accepts all religions. But perhaps different Halls have different restrictions? Jw.org does not answer this inquiry.

 

[YoursTrue]

I see at www.jw.org is chock full of informative articles and videos to choose from a variety of subjects or topics all adding to one's fund of knowledge

Yes, and the pictures of people enjoying the outdoors really are beautiful also.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

First let me say that when I say the world isn't going to last I mean the situation the world is in now. All wickedness and selfishness will be removed.

OK. Then I did misunderstand you. My version of Christianity taught that the world would be literally destroyed in a fiery apocalypse. Maybe a different choice of words next time, like the world will be changed?

Yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses

Thanks for that. That helps me to understand your worldview and why you reminded me of the JWs that came to the door. Can you tell me what you think that they lost interest in me when I told them that I disagreed that the world was a terrible place and that as I told you, man is in for a rough patch with climate change and this widespread trend toward authoritarianism, but that I expect humanity and life to survive it and come back after a sharp correction?

If you make house calls, is that something that you would do as well? It made me feel like they thought they had nothing to say to say to an optimist, which I thought was strange. I knew that I couldn't impact them either, but that wasn't a reason to stop talking for me like it seemed to be for them. I never mentioned that I was an atheist, and if they had asked, I would have told them I was Catholic like most of my Mexican neighbors.

a scientist said that 95% of the universe is held in place by an unknown force, it is not gravity.

But the universe isn't held in place. It's continuously expanding.

Perhaps you misunderstood that scientist was saying. What I've learned is that 95% of the universe isn't ordinary matter. It is also either dark matter (27%), which does exert gravity, or dark energy (68%), which has an expansive tendency. The large-scale structure of the universe is thought to be a large matrix of dark matter shaped as filaments containing galaxies of solar systems (ordinary matter) separated by large voids

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Dark matter / dark energy
I find at Isaiah 40:26 that God has both Power and Strength
Where does the energy come from but from God's Great Power - Jeremiah 51:15
When God sends forth His spirit things happen and are created see Psalm 104:30
God does Not send forth Himself but uses His impersonal powerful strong spirit to accomplish His purpose
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy in order to create the material realm of existence
Jeremiah 32:17; 51:15-16; 10:12 B ' God stretches out the heavens.........' (He stretches out or expands the universe )

 

[YoursTrue]

OK. Then I did misunderstand you. My version of Christianity taught that the world would be literally destroyed in a fiery apocalypse. Maybe a different choice of words next time, like the world will be changed?

Thank you, yes I will work on that. I've heard some do teach-think that the world will be burnt up or something like that. I'll get back to your post later...