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Why aren’t we learning?

I heard another theory or factor on why there were wars, just now in a discussion with friend. He put most of the blame on arms manufacturers, which, when looked at psychologically, is a byproduct of greed.

I wonder if cavemen blamed pointy stick manufacturers for the violence in their world?

Perhaps medieval wars were driven by “Big Carpentry” as they lobbied the aristocracy to build more trebuchets?

Arms manufacturers exist because humans are violent and it is better to be good at violence than bad at it. They are the consequence not the cause.

Wars exist because humans think violence is a means to an end same as they always have.

The idea that it is caused by arms manufacturers is just a form of theodicy from those who would find it puerile or unserious to blame it on Satan or the likes.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
I recall hearing one person calculated out of all the people Jesus encountered only 1% became a follower
So, if Jesus was running for office and only got 1% of the votes________________
Thus, to me it is No wonder that Jesus forewarned us that his followers would be hated - Matt. 10:22; 24:9; Luke 21:17
In Scripture peaceful relations will be accomplished by ' words '
Isaiah 11:2-4 tells us about the sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth to rid the Earth of the wicked
Revelation 19:14-15 includes angelic armies involved along with Jesus as Commander in Chief or King of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44)

I don't wish to get into the second coming too much, but it's safe to be of the mind that if a man ever comes professing to be him, we should not listen. He forewarned us of this in the scriptures. And, although every eye will see him, and every knee will bow, this does not mean that we will be looking to one person as that second coming. So, I don't think a popularity vote is on the agenda but something quite different.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't wish to get into the second coming too much, but it's safe to be of the mind that if a man ever comes professing to be him, we should not listen. He forewarned us of this in the scriptures. And, although every eye will see him, and every knee will bow, this does not mean that we will be looking to one person as that second coming. So, I don't think a popularity vote is on the agenda but something quite different.
To me the agenda is Jesus soon coming 1000 year reign over Earth
When Jesus completes his Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth, then when all wickedness is gone forever then every knee will bow
This is when Philippians 2:8-11 will be fulfilled
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
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Wars exist because humans think violence is a means to an end same as they always have....................................
I think we were taught in school because a 'balance of power' was a needed factor
Plus, that war was population control
On the flip side, Jesus taught his followers would lay down the sword (aka weapons) - Matthew 26:52; John 18:11
Thus, Jesus genuine followers would Not take part in war ( be neutral )
Jesus and his followers did Not even get involved in the political issues of the day between the Jews and Romans
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?
We’ve progressed a ton.
 
Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?
Because the world is controlled by satan man is blinded from the truth of salvation. Man relies on, money, material and hate. Only those who turn themselves away from this world and seek God will live good lives. Until the end comes, the world will get worse not better as God says. Those who truly seek and obey him will not be of this world anymore. When you seek God, you have to start with total Faith and Belief in him. Then allow him to guide you.
 
Man is the one that choices to fight create hate and war after each other. It takes 2 people to create the war and then they get others to follow them. If you do not want war then do not get involved in it. Stay away from guns, from hate and from others that encourage war. Love God and follow his word and be happy.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think we were taught in school because a 'balance of power' was a needed factor
Plus, that war was population control
On the flip side, Jesus taught his followers would lay down the sword (aka weapons) - Matthew 26:52; John 18:11
Thus, Jesus genuine followers would Not take part in war ( be neutral )
Jesus and his followers did Not even get involved in the political issues of the day between the Jews and Romans
I was taught the same thing about war. A 'balance of power' and population control. I was amazed to learn that is why people thought wars were necessary. I remember my history teacher as a very smart man, but that is what he said and I was horrified to learn that's why we have war.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
To me the agenda is Jesus soon coming 1000 year reign over Earth
When Jesus completes his Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth, then when all wickedness is gone forever then every knee will bow
This is when Philippians 2:8-11 will be fulfilled
In harmony with your comment here, there are charities around the world, yet there is still hatred, homelessness, wars, crime, among other things that mankind cannot solve on their own.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If you do not want war then do not get involved in it. Stay away from guns, from hate and from others that encourage war. Love God and follow his word and be happy.
Humans can't do that. That is not what God created them for. God created them to be selfish and fight.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?
As others have said already, man has progressed socially. Humanism has been at the vanguard promoting tolerance, reciprocity, egalitarianism, education, and freedom. In America, Christianity has been an anchor opposing such progress and recently, dragging the nation back into its past in its attempt to counter humanistic ideals such as democracy, freedom of and from religion, tolerance of LGBTQ+, and reproductive rights.

Spiritual progress? What's that? You probably mean more religion and more adherence to religious teachings. That's not any kind of progress. The religions have failed to create unity or to successfully promote human decency. Moral progress has also come from humanism, especially in Christianity, whose adherents are better people for embracing humanist ideals like democracy and the abolition of slavery.

And by material progress, I presume you mean science and technology. That's a product of the humanist values as well - empiricism, skepticism, and critical thinking. They're very powerful tools, and their expert application by the best minds to studying the world has generated a bounty of utility to mankind.

The answers lie in humanism, which is anathema to fundamentalists and theocrats.
There is progress to a great degree. However, why haven't we reached justice and peace? (1) It's because believers trusted disbelievers too much. They really believed all that talk about human rights was sincere at a point.
Here's a nice illustration of that tendency for religions to hold back progress, this time from a Muslim perspective. I guess you would like to see a return to a time of fewer human rights and listening less to the atheistic humanists ("disbelievers").
(2) It's because "believers" don't enjoin good and forbid evil like they should, and as such majority of "Muslims" end up loving dunya and failing their duty towards God.

(3) It's because sorcery of Iblis and his forces has never been taken seriously. As a result people are still blind to the family of Mohammad (s) in the Quran and other things like being blind to slavery never being allowed by God.

(4) Believers who know better are not striving hard enough in God's way.

(5) People despair at meeting Imam Mahdi (a) and don't prepare themselves to meet him and accept his miracles and words and personality as a result, few participate in God's plans on laylatal Qadr.

(6) Apathy towards unjust rulers ruling Muslim nations is due to love of dunya and Muslims have become apathetic towards unity and justice.

(7) The falsehood has upper hand so still most of the world does not know the truth.

My answers all keep in mind that only believers can set aright things and is not expected of disbelievers and that the earth can only set aright with a leader from God.
Muslim countries have made very little progress due to such beliefs. They still have theocracies, they still persecute homosexuals even more than the Christians, they cut off hands, burn people alive in cages, treat women as property, behead people or push them off towers. The Christians were more like that before the advent of the Enlightenment (another humanism gift to mankind) with their inquisitions and witch hangings, for example, but they have been subjected to these humanistic values for centuries now and resemble the humanists more than the Muslims.

If we could only wrestle control from the authoritarians, underregulated capitalists, and regressive religions, we could reshape the world. We could end war, feed the hungry, control population growth, reverse climate change, and mitigate or prevent poverty.

And still we hear, the world would be better if people only obeyed Jesus or God more.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
They have?
Yes, man has progressed socially over the centuries. Many people today enjoy democracies, universal health care, no-fault divorce, and guaranteed human rights. Chattel slavery is gone. There are no more witch hangings in the developed world. You have freedom of religion and I have freedom from religion.

Why don't you know that? How did you manage to miss all of that? Did your church teach you that man has made no progress socially? Some denominations are like that - very negative in their outlooks. Did I read that you're Baptist?

I saw that extreme pessimism for mankind recently from some Jehovah's Witnesses who came knocking at my door. They saw the world as going to hell in a basket and thought that we all needed their religion. When I told them that I enjoyed life, they lost interest in trying to recruit me. They abruptly said thank you and goodbye. You reminded me of them.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, man has progressed socially over the centuries. Many people today enjoy democracies, universal health care, no-fault divorce, and guaranteed human rights. Chattel slavery is gone. There are no more witch hangings in the developed world. You have freedom of religion and I have freedom from religion.

Why don't you know that? How did you manage to miss all of that? Did your church teach you that man has made no progress socially? Some denominations are like that - very negative in their outlooks. Did I read that you're Baptist?

I saw that extreme pessimism for mankind recently from some Jehovah's Witnesses who came knocking at my door. They saw the world as going to hell in a basket and thought that we all needed their religion. When I told them that I enjoyed life, they lost interest in trying to recruit me. They abruptly said thank you and goodbye. You reminded me of them.
If you think making better more destructive weapons is social progress, ok for you. Take care, be careful.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?
I disagree. I think that humanity has made huge progress when it comes to social justice over the past 200 years, and even within my lifetime. As for 'spiritual' progress, I have no idea what that is. I've yet to have anyone give me a suitable definition of what spiritual or spirituality even means.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you think making better more destructive weapons is social progress, ok for you.
Look at the OP again: "Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?" By materially I assume he meant scientific and technological progress. Weapon making is in his third category.

Do you know what social progress means? It appears not. I just told you what I considered examples of social progress and you returned to technology. Even in war, some social progress has been made. Look at the outcry regarding the bombing of Gaza. Look at the Geneva Conventions.

I asked you the following and you preferred to not answer, so I'll give you what I think is the case: "Why don't you know that? How did you manage to miss all of that? Did your church teach you that man has made no progress socially? Some denominations are like that - very negative in their outlooks."

Yes, you belong to one of the Christian denominations that teaches its adherents an extremely pessimist worldview. I presume that these are mostly fundamentalist Protestants of some sort. Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Methodists, for example typically don't see the world as negatively as you or those Jehovah's Witnesses I told you about. I don't know what other denominations are as pessimistic as the JWs, but I assume that they are not alone.

There's another active thread about American politics in which yesterday, I wrote the following comment to a MAGA atheist, who also has an extremely pessimistic view of the world:

"My world is a happy one. I don't imbibe that conservative media, and I also don't let the pessimistic [religious] denominations tell me how bad life is. You dodged that second bullet, but the Republicans captured your mind and infected it with a very negative view of your world. Why don't you turn off your conservative media and try to be happier? It's doing you harm for nothing in return. You don't benefit at all from your state of mind. They do."

You seem to be the opposite. You dodged the negative political indoctrination, but it looks like your religion got to you instead. Fearmongering is an effective tool for capturing susceptible minds. It keeps people thinking they need the kind of help that only the source of the indoctrination can provide to protect them from the danger they say is there. For the American conservatives, it's the Democrats and liberals that are the boogeymen, or the Communists or immigrants coming to replace them. For the churches with an apocalyptic mindset, it's a different boogeyman - imminent world collapse and destruction followed by mass damnation.

Anyway, if that's not an accurate description of why you are so nihilistic - your religion teaches you that - feel free to amend it.

And feel free to disregard that teaching if you have a choice in the matter. They rob you of joy in exchange for the offer of protection from a problem they invented and only they have the antidote for. As I told the miserable conservative, my world is happy. I don't listen to either pessimistic conservative indoctrination or to pessimistic religious indoctrination.

Yes, I see the troubles in the world, but that's not all I see. I have hope for mankind. I believe that the rest of this century will be bad for humanity with the rise of authoritarianism threatening democracies and climate change threatening all life, but I see a positive future after that, when man scrubs the greenhouse gases from the atmosphere and humanism resumes reshaping the world for the better as freedom breaks through again as it did 2.5 centuries ago, when people successfully threw off the chains of authoritarianism (kings then) - this time, perhaps for good.

But today should be another beautiful and comfortable day just like yesterday and hopefully, tomorrow. And I am grateful for that and to all of the people that made and continue to make a good life possible.

And I have a spiritual connection to nature that Christianity undermines in susceptible adherents, as it redirects one's attention and gratitude out of the universe to a hoped-for deity and afterlife while demeaning the world and even flesh.

So good luck to you whatever you do.
 
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