Why be against universal healthcare?

[Reverend Rick]

This is awesome and one of the better takes on the issue I've seen in a long time.....

Wow, we all three agree. :clap

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Specifically in America it was because of the Tea Party movement that ws fed by ultra conservative (and mega wealthy) backers most notably the Koch brothers, rounded up a smear campaign to trick a lot of less intelegent people into thinking that if we go into socialized medicen they will force abortions on innocent young girls, shove birth control down their throats, force them to pay personally for all of the medical expenses of a poor lower class black single mother with 14 children.

Obama is also using this to move us to a *gasp* socialized nation and obviously anything that isn't free market un-regulated anarcy like capitalism must be wrong and against Jesus.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Specifically in America it was because of the Tea Party movement that ws fed by ultra conservative (and mega wealthy) backers most notably the Koch brothers, rounded up a smear campaign to trick a lot of less intelegent people into thinking that if we go into socialized medicen they will force abortions on innocent young girls, shove birth control down their throats, force them to pay personally for all of the medical expenses of a poor lower class black single mother with 14 children.

Obama is also using this to move us to a *gasp* socialized nation and obviously anything that isn't free market un-regulated anarcy like capitalism must be wrong and against Jesus.

Now, now, Monk, while I am sure there are many people in this country who fit this description, you are painting with a very broad brush here brother.

I believe the attitude against universal health care stems from the expense of all this.

I want health insurance, not a cover all plan. I want co-pays to limit abuse of the system and people should have to pay for the basics.

We should have a plan that keeps folks away from the bankruptcy court not skating scott free.

Health care is expensive especially when we give everyone everything all the time "for free".

 

[Riverwolf]

Now, now, Monk, while I am sure there are many people in this country who fit this description, you are painting with a very broad brush here brother.

I believe the attitude against universal health care stems from the expense of all this.

I want health insurance, not a cover all plan. I want co-pays to limit abuse of the system and people should have to pay for the basics.

We should have a plan that keeps folks away from the bankruptcy court not skating scott free.

Health care is expensive especially when we give everyone everything all the time "for free".

Universal health care is not free, nor does it actually cover everything and everyone.

The way I see it is this: people who genuinely need it should not be punished because a few lazy people take advantage of the system.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I believe the attitude against universal health care stems from the expense of all this.

Respectfully: it's a misinformed attitude. The Affordable Care Act (1) reduces the deficit, (2) reduces spending on Medicare by $200 billion and imposes a 40% tax on those expensive "Cadillac" plans (to discourage them), (3) is expected to reduce expenses in the long-run by eliminating the "free-rider" problem, shifting resources to preventive care rather than emergency care, etc. Yes there are some tax increases, why are those there? To pay for inter-state exchanges where consumers will shop for insurance from PRIVATE companies competing across state lines! Tea Party people should LIKE all this stuff! Instead they are living in la-la land, blinded by their irrational hatred of our Kenyan President.

If we REALLY wanted to reduce medical expenses in this country we would adopt single-payer or at least a public option for health insurance, like the rest of the world. As I more-or-less demonstrated in this thread. But the Tea Party types screamed "socialism", so we compromised with the Affordable Care Act. Liberals like me said "conservative reform is better than no reform", while conservatives just went off the deep end. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but on this issue, that's the truth.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Respectfully: it's a misinformed attitude. The Affordable Care Act (1) reduces the deficit, (2) reduces spending on Medicare by $200 billion and imposes a 40% tax on those expensive "Cadillac" plans (to discourage them), (3) is expected to reduce expenses in the long-run by eliminating the "free-rider" problem, shifting resources to preventive care rather than emergency care, etc. Yes there are some tax increases, why are those there? To pay for inter-state exchanges where consumers will shop for insurance from PRIVATE companies competing across state lines! Tea Party people should LIKE all this stuff! Instead they are living in la-la land, blinded by their irrational hatred of our Kenyan President.

If we REALLY wanted to reduce medical expenses in this country we would adopt single-payer or at least a public option for health insurance, like the rest of the world. As I more-or-less demonstrated in this thread. But the Tea Party types screamed "socialism", so we compromised with the Affordable Care Act. Liberals like me said "conservative reform is better than no reform", while conservatives just went off the deep end. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but on this issue, that's the truth.

Bull crap Spinks, not a single Republican voted for the affordable health care act so get it straight buddy, the Democrats did not have the resolve to go to a single payer system that would have beat the pants off the current system the Democrats gave us.

Why would you compromise when you did not get a single Republican vote?

 

[Raban]

An unorganized and corrupt healthcare system is what I fear, however that is no worse than any political body which is unorganized and corrupt. I live in the Conservative South, and most people don't understand it, say it is the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong, it won't work, ect. So what needs to happen is for people to understand it- and the governing political body to perfect it.

 

[Valjean]

If expense were an issue you'd expect the conservatives to support a universal system, as it would cost the public half what it's currently paying plus yield better outcomes and wider coverage.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If expense were an issue you'd expect the conservatives to support a universal system, as it would cost the public half what it's currently paying plus yield better outcomes and wider coverage.

Obama and Pelosi did not need one Republican vote to get the ACA passed.

Obama Care is the Democrats baby, quit trying to hand it off to Republicans. :ignore:

 

[Riverwolf]

Bull crap Spinks, not a single Republican voted for the affordable health care act so get it straight buddy, the Democrats did not have the resolve to go to a single payer system that would have beat the pants off the current system the Democrats gave us.

Why would you compromise when you did not get a single Republican vote?

What are you talking about? He never said anything about getting Republican votes.

 

[Valjean]

Didn't Obama once support a single payer system? Throwing everyone to the for-profit insurance industry was all he could get by an obstructionist congress. Alas, he's no Johnson or Roosevelt.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What are you talking about? He never said anything about getting Republican votes.

Really?

Liberals like me said "conservative reform is better than no reform", while conservatives just went off the deep end. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but on this issue, that's the truth.

Who the hell are the "conservatives"?

 

[dawny0826]

Didn't Obama once support a single payer system? Throwing everyone to the for-profit insurance industry was all he could get by an obstructionist congress. Alas, he's no Johnson or Roosevelt.

I think he did.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ama-statements-single-payer-have-changed-bit/

 

[Riverwolf]

Really?

Who the hell are the "conservatives"?

Looks to me like he was saying something about conservatives (who aren't necessarily repubs by my understanding, but they all look the same to me, frankly), whining and complaining.

Isn't that what going off the deep end means?

 

[Reverend Rick]

It just goes to show you that a Democratic President, a Democratic majority in the Senate AND House could not get the single payer thing done.

And all you want to do is blame the Republicans who know how to vote in lock step unlike the herd of cats who gave us the unaffordable health care act.

 

[Riverwolf]

It just goes to show you that a Democratic President, a Democratic majority in the Senate AND House could not get the single payer thing done.

And all you want to do is blame the Republicans who know how to vote in lock step unlike the herd of cats who gave us the unaffordable health care act.

...who're you talking to?

 

[Valjean]

It just goes to show you that a Democratic President, a Democratic majority in the Senate AND House could not get the single payer thing done.

And all you want to do is blame the Republicans who know how to vote in lock step unlike the herd of cats who gave us the unaffordable health care act.

What was the Republicans' proposal to fix the system?

 

[Reverend Rick]

...who're you talking to?

The man who said this:

But the Tea Party types screamed "socialism", so we compromised with the Affordable Care Act. Liberals like me said "conservative reform is better than no reform"

Jesus, I ask again, am I wrong to assume that "Conservative TEA Party" means Republicans?

MY POINT IN ALL THIS IS, WHY COMPROMISE WHEN NO ONE VOTED WITH YOU?

Democrats need to take ownership of the Affordable Health Care Act and quit blaming people who did not vote for this crap.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What was the Republicans' proposal to fix the system?

What does that have to do with anything? Their votes where not needed where they?

With a majority in the House, Senate, and Oval office, why don't we have a single payer system that our President wanted in the first place?

 

[Riverwolf]

What does that have to do with anything? Their votes where not needed where they?

With a majority in the House, Senate, and Oval office, why don't we have a single payer system that our President wanted in the first place?

PR, maybe?