Why be against universal healthcare?

[Riverwolf]

Oh, I agree this is about young people who need to be educated and have available affordable housing. We should give a 9 year old a transplant.......but not a 90 year old.

Question Wolf, lets say we find our balance and can get a sustainable system in place which is my main concern, keeping a system in place for another 100 years.

What if a billion people walk accross our border?

Then we'll address it with some new backup plan.

For now, that's unlikely since America's reputation is extremely low in the world. Therefore, it's about as relevant a question as as "what if a meteor strikes New York?"

 

[Reverend Rick]

Then we'll address it with some new backup plan.

For now, that's unlikely since America's reputation is extremely low in the world. Therefore, it's about as relevant a question as as "what if a meteor strikes New York?"

Nice dodge buddie. Just when I thought we could find some mutual ground. This share the wealth thing could get out of hand real quick if we spread ourselves too thin.

If I was a true liberal, (and it could happen as I evolve into an old person) I would be concerned about the whole planet.

Do you not see that the poorest among us is rich by other countries standards who do not even have clean drinking water?

 

[Copernicus]

He sorta has a point thought... We should use those parts for the young people who need them, and will hopefully contribute to society one day and not have to suffer all their lives. If I'm 80 or older, what am I going to need new limbs for? I would rather have a youngster have it... I know it sounds bad, but for the sake of the country, we need to save organs for the young, and not for the old.

Wild guess here: You're young, aren't you? I have a feeling that when you are 80 or older, you will be advocating that young people who can spare them should be required to donate organs and other spare parts from their bodies to replace your aging body parts. Look, young people tend not to get those parts now, because the American system favors the employed and the wealthy. If other countries can afford to provide universal health care for their young and their seniors, then so can we.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nice dodge buddie. Just when I thought we could find some mutual ground. This share the wealth thing could get out of hand real quick if we spread ourselves too thin.

If I was a true liberal, (and it could happen as I evolve into an old person) I would be concerned about the whole planet.

Do you not see that the poorest among us is rich by other countries standards who do not even have clean drinking water?

Last I looked, the poorest among us don't have anything. Except perhaps alcohol and clothing. At least people in third-world countries have homes and families.

'Sides, people in third-world countries are generally better off going to other developed nations. The EU, Russia, Scandinavia, Brazil, the UK, Australia... all of these places are better than America. The novelty of being "the land of opportunity" is no longer unique to this place. Norway has the highest standard of living in the world.

Therefore, on the off-chance that lots of people decide to come here, we should just continue with the screwy system we currently have which would screw them over even more? WHILE screwing ourselves further?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Wild guess here: You're young, aren't you? I have a feeling that when you are 80 or older, you will be advocating that young people who can spare them should be required to donate organs and other spare parts from their bodies to replace your aging body parts. Look, young people tend not to get those parts now, because the American system favors the employed and the wealthy. If other countries can afford to provide universal health care for their young and their seniors, then so can we.

Two things, other countries are not doing as well as you portray they are here.

I am an old fart and I plan on getting out of the way for the younger generation and not be a burden on society. Real men understand they cannot live forever.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

'Course not, 'cause they're greatest strength is the biggest reason why we'll never recover and that the United States is not going to last the century: Iceland has nine people in it.

Smaller countries tend to be stronger than larger ones that spread too thin.

9 people?

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Wild guess here: You're young, aren't you? I have a feeling that when you are 80 or older, you will be advocating that young people who can spare them should be required to donate organs and other spare parts from their bodies to replace your aging body parts. Look, young people tend not to get those parts now, because the American system favors the employed and the wealthy. If other countries can afford to provide universal health care for their young and their seniors, then so can we.

Heh ya pretty young. If we can afford it, then what's stopping us?

 

[dust1n]

Heh ya pretty young. If we can afford it, then what's stopping us?

Could it be the people who profit from it? You know, all those millions of dollars of lobbying money? Hmm?

"No matter what your perspective on the Affordable Care Act, this shocking bit of news should concern—and disturb—you greatly.

According to the National Journal’s Influence Alley, at the very same time the American Health Insurance Plans (AHIP)—the health insurance industry super lobby—was cutting a deal with the White House leading to its stated support of the proposed Obamacare legislation, they were secretly funneling huge amounts money to the Chamber of Commerce to be spent on advertising designed to convince the public that the legislation should be defeated.

How much money?

A stunning $102.4 million spent over just 15 months."

Busted! Health Insurers Secretly Spent Huge To Defeat Health Care Reform While Pretending To Support Obamacare - Forbes

And Obamacare is the most capitalist friendly thing in the world, it's better for them then the free market!

 

[Riverwolf]

9 people?

It's an exaggeration. Iceland's population is... well... tiny.

Let's put it like this: San Francisco alone has a much, much larger population.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Oh hmm. So Obamacare is gonna get taken down or what?...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I would say it's because our country is totally bankrupt.

After Clinton the fed gov had a surplus. Did we go into debt bc Americans started getting hospital bills for the first time in 2000? Or was it Bush's wars + unfunded tax cuts + financial meltdown?

 

[Copernicus]

Two things, other countries are not doing as well as you portray they are here.

I don't know how to evaluate such a claim. How well have I portrayed them? What does "well" mean here? From what I know of Europe and Canada, people in those countries do get better care than the US does. Generally speaking, their health statistics are better, and they pay a smaller percentage of their GDP on health care. I've had very good health care over my lifetime, because I have been employed most of my life in jobs that provided health care. I know too many people who have not been so lucky.

I am an old fart and I plan on getting out of the way for the younger generation and not be a burden on society. Real men understand they cannot live forever.

I have no problem with your pursuit of being a "real man", whatever that means, but this is not about you and your personal choices. The problem is that private insurance has failed to deliver quality health care for a reasonable price. Corporate greed and corruption has overwhelmed us. Most of the country has decided that the system needs to change. I wish that we could have had Medicare for everyone, and you have endorsed that position yourself. I am not going to blame Obama for bringing us an imperfect system. We could have had better, but conservatives have fought it tooth and nail for decades. So this appears to be the best we can achieve at this point in time: expensive compulsory private insurance embedded in a patchwork quilt of overly complicated rules. That is what Republicans advocated in place of single-payer for decades, until Democrats abandoned single-payer and gave us the Republican plan. That's when they decided to abandon it.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

After Clinton the fed gov had a surplus. Did we go into debt bc Americans started getting hospital bills for the first time in 2000? Or was it Bush's wars + unfunded tax cuts + financial meltdown?

The wars played a big part in it, but what choice did he have?

 

[Riverwolf]

The wars played a big part in it, but what choice did he have?

Considering that this is not a thread about Bush's wars, let's PLEASE not open that can of wars here.

This isn't so much a post directed at you, Patriot, but to pretty much everyone.

Suffice to say that Bush's wars were a big part of the economic meltdown(though certainly NOT the only factor), regardless of whether they were justified or not.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't know how to evaluate such a claim. How well have I portrayed them? What does "well" mean here? From what I know of Europe and Canada, people in those countries do get better care than the US does. Generally speaking, their health statistics are better, and they pay a smaller percentage of their GDP on health care. I've had very good health care over my lifetime, because I have been employed most of my life in jobs that provided health care. I know too many people who have not been so lucky.


I have no problem with your pursuit of being a "real man", whatever that means, but this is not about you and your personal choices. The problem is that private insurance has failed to deliver quality health care for a reasonable price. Corporate greed and corruption has overwhelmed us. Most of the country has decided that the system needs to change. I wish that we could have had Medicare for everyone, and you have endorsed that position yourself. I am not going to blame Obama for bringing us an imperfect system. We could have had better, but conservatives have fought it tooth and nail for decades. So this appears to be the best we can achieve at this point in time: expensive compulsory private insurance embedded in a patchwork quilt of overly complicated rules. That is what Republicans advocated in place of single-payer for decades, until Democrats abandoned single-payer and gave us the Republican plan. That's when they decided to abandon it.

I don't believe it is very honest to blame the affordable health care act on the Republicans when not a single GOP member voted for this plan,

Could it be that the Democrats are not that far from being in bed with the insurance companies as well? Did they pass this legislation with the best interests of the American people or their insurance bedfellows?

While I basically oppose socialised medicine, if we are going to go down that road we should have done this right and extended medicare for all rather than increasing the IRS payroll and hiring more redundancy in the Federal Government.

The affordable health care act does not insure all Americans and penalises the very people it is suppose to help.

How is this any different than passing a law that makes it illegal to not have housing to help the homeless? It is ignorant logic and a major cluster truck.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Ya I guess...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I thought your man Obama already sloved this problem DP.

The stripped down healthcare bill that we now have known as the ACA is a small step in the right direction......but it by no means is Universal Healthcare.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well if it'll work, let's do it then. John McCain should really retire already in my opinion. And also, we borrow a lot. Look at our debt. It's a clear sign of a bankrupt nation...

We're not a "bankrupt" nation. Do you know what bankrupt really means.?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

He sorta has a point thought... We should use those parts for the young people who need them, and will hopefully contribute to society one day and not have to suffer all their lives. If I'm 80 or older, what am I going to need new limbs for? I would rather have a youngster have it... I know it sounds bad, but for the sake of the country, we need to save organs for the young, and not for the old.

But it actually cost us more to take care of an elderly person that can't do it for themselves. If you're 80 and need a new hip will help you become more mobile and independent then that's less overall it's going to cost the tax payer and families to take care of you than if you're in a wheelchair that from time to time needs maintenance, retrofitting you're home with the proper cabinets, sinks, showers...etc, putting in a wheelchair ramp.....and providing you with a nurse or even having a family member restructure their time from their job to take care of you. Shucks...a lot of families pull their limited funding together to take care of their elders. If we could implement a more robust healthcare system where we focused on quality of life...preventative care, health, exercise, nutrition, low stress we would better the overall well being of the person. It's cheaper and the results are better for the society on a whole.

 

[Marie75]

Really? Why be against universal healthcare?! If we could afford TRILLIONS of dollars that was spent on a war that would NOT have happened if Bush was elected...we could have universal healthcare right now! Heck, we could have wiped out world hunger. Don't get me started. Universal healthcare should be a right for all citizens of the world. Thank you.:thud: