Why be against universal healthcare?

[Alceste]

Well, living in enlightened Canada, where we have had universal health care for decades, I just ran into one snag in this kind of system. You see, innocently I listened to my GP saying he was sending me for an MRI because the CT scan didn't show him enough about my shoulder/neck area to draw any good conclusions. So far, so good. I got a letter from the hospital in the nearby town with the brand new machine and the letter had in BOLD letters, at the top. "Please carefully note the YEAR of your appointment." It then went on to say that my appointment was scheduled for Feb. 2014. Nice, eh... only 8 months to go. *sigh* (Granted, if I wanted to spend $25,000, I could go to Seattle and have it done next week.)

Better to wait eight months than forever, which is what you'd be looking at as an uninsured American.

I see wait times as a reason to invest more into our system, not a reason to consider switching to a private system.

(FYI, I think you might be able to get it done cheaper in Alberta if you are thinking of paying.)

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Here's how it works in the rest of the world: you go see your doctor whenever you feel the need, get treated, and you don't get a bill. Simple as that. And it costs half as much as your system. Imagine that.

It sounds good and all, but the OP wasn't clear on it. Like who pays for it, who receives it, how much it covers per person.

 

[Alceste]

It sounds good and all, but the OP wasn't clear on it. Like who pays for it, who receives it, how much it covers per person.

Taxpayers pay for it through income tax and / or small monthly insurance fees (couple hundred bucks at most, waived for anyone who can't afford it). All legal residents get it after three months. There is no limit except that the treatment be medically necessary (no boob jobs), and no deductibles or copays. And it's STILL half the price of the American system.

The health care providers get paid by the government on the basis of a standard fee schedule, but they are not employees. They are mostly private doctors who invoice the government for the services they provide.

 

[YmirGF]

Better to wait eight months than forever, which is what you'd be looking at as an uninsured American.

I see wait times as a reason to invest more into our system, not a reason to consider switching to a private system.

(FYI, I think you might be able to get it done cheaper in Alberta if you are thinking of paying.)

Exactly. I have often said to people over the years, who were complaining about inadequacies in our Universal Healthcare System, "How much are you willing to pay so that the wait times are less?"

 

[Copernicus]

I do agree and in all my 57 years, I have never got the short straw in relation to universal health care, till now, of course. I intend to ask my doctor if he has any influence to get the period shortened. I would really like 100% use of my left arm again, as 70% isn't much fun.

Is this possibly a function of the number of available MRIs in the area where you live? Could you have the exam scheduled in another city sooner? It seems to me that 8 months is just an unacceptable amount of time to wait. In our area, my health care provider has the machine in a mobile unit that they move around in the area of coverage.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I would say it's because our country is totally bankrupt. Where would we get the money for it? I can understand Canada having universal healthcare, but compare Canada to the US. It's sad to say that my country has turned into a giant leper colony. We can't afford the money, and we're already taxing people to death while borrowing from China. In theory, yes, it's good to give everyone healthcare, but we just don't have the money, and we have too many sick and obese people here. If we get out of this financial mess, and people start eating a little healthier, then we can bring back the topic of universal healthcare. Until then, it's just going to be another reason for us to borrow ourselves into a bigger debt.

I hear a lot that people accuse conservatives as being evil, but we're not(At least not any that I've met), but we just don't have the money. I don't know how clearer to make it that we're bankrupt.... If you guys want to help the poor so much, do what the rest of us do and give food or money to the homeless, or donate toys to a charity on Christmas, or spend your thanksgiving at the soup kitchen.

Saying we're bankrupt over and over doesn't prove we are. Many in congress want to arm the rebels. Where's the money going to come from? We give hundreds of billions away in tax expenditures to companies that either shouldn't be getting them or simply don't need then in the first place. A huge cost, if not the largest cost, to Americans is healthcare. Universal Healthcare actually lowers that overall cost. For some strange reason we can justify footing the bill on upwards of 30 million people with no insurance that may at some point show up at the emergency room but we can't find the courage to initiate universal healthcare for all to help alleviate the growing cost of healthcare.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Saying we're bankrupt over and over doesn't prove we are. Many in congress want to arm the rebels. Where's the money going to come from? We give hundreds of billions away in tax expenditures to companies that either shouldn't be getting them or simply don't need then in the first place. A huge cost, if not the largest cost, to Americans is healthcare. Universal Healthcare actually lowers that overall cost. For some strange reason we can justify footing the bill on upwards of 30 million people with no insurance that may at some point show up at the emergency room but we can't find the courage to initiate universal healthcare for all to help alleviate the growing cost of healthcare.

I thought your man Obama already sloved this problem DP.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Well if it'll work, let's do it then. John McCain should really retire already in my opinion. And also, we borrow a lot. Look at our debt. It's a clear sign of a bankrupt nation...

 

[Riverwolf]

Well if it'll work, let's do it then. John McCain should really retire already in my opinion. And also, we borrow a lot. Look at our debt. It's a clear sign of a bankrupt nation...

Well, hey. A tiny country, Iceland, was able to recover from a terrible recession in only a few years.

 

[Apex]

I guess it all depends on if you think rebuilding people so they can live longer and be a burden on society is a good thing or not.

Giving folks new eyes, knees, hips and replacement organs should be a luxury not a right.

We all are going to die, living in a nursing home for ten years at the end of our lives is not desirable to me.

We should all live out our natural lives with basic health care and not fund extended life procedures.

It is selfish to do so expecting other to pay for this.

Would not this money be better spent on young families education or affordable housing?

Dude, that is pretty barbaric...

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Dude, that is pretty barbaric...

He sorta has a point thought... We should use those parts for the young people who need them, and will hopefully contribute to society one day and not have to suffer all their lives. If I'm 80 or older, what am I going to need new limbs for? I would rather have a youngster have it... I know it sounds bad, but for the sake of the country, we need to save organs for the young, and not for the old.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Well, hey. A tiny country, Iceland, was able to recover from a terrible recession in only a few years.

Ya but did they have a debt like ours? =p

 

[Alceste]

He sorta has a point thought... We should use those parts for the young people who need them, and will hopefully contribute to society one day and not have to suffer all their lives. If I'm 80 or older, what am I going to need new limbs for? I would rather have a youngster have it... I know it sounds bad, but for the sake of the country, we need to save organs for the young, and not for the old.

My 94 year old grandmother lives pretty much independently, thanks to numerous surgeries and minor operations that have kept her on the road for the past decade or so. She still has the prettiest garden in a neighbourhood of gardeners. What would she do if she couldn't get around the garden? Watch TV? No. Just no. She's put 35 years into it. She's out there every day. It's her whole purpose in life. Thanks to having work that is meaningful to her to do, she still has all her marbles, although they are perhaps a little less shiny than they used to be. From my perspective, the longer my family can stave off having to wipe her bum and strap her to a wheelchair to keep her from breaking a hip, the better. With any luck, she'll die quickly and painlessly after a wonderful day in the garden, just like my other grandmother.

 

[Alceste]

Ya but did they have a debt like ours? =p

That makes no sense. Universal health care is half as expensive as American health care. You'd be saving money, not spending more money. If the budget is your concern, you should be screaming for universal health care.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

That makes no sense. Universal health care is half as expensive as American health care. You'd be saving money, not spending more money. If the budget is your concern, you should be screaming for universal health care.

I brought that up because he mentioned Iceland getting out of a recession. He wasn't talking about healthcare.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

My 94 year old grandmother lives pretty much independently, thanks to numerous surgeries and minor operations that have kept her on the road for the past decade or so. She still has the prettiest garden in a neighbourhood of gardeners. What would she do if she couldn't get around the garden? Watch TV? No. Just no. She's put 35 years into it. She's out there every day. It's her whole purpose in life. Thanks to having work that is meaningful to her to do, she still has all her marbles, although they are perhaps a little less shiny than they used to be. From my perspective, the longer my family can stave off having to wipe her bum and strap her to a wheelchair to keep her from breaking a hip, the better. With any luck, she'll die quickly and painlessly after a wonderful day in the garden, just like my other grandmother.

My condolence. I wish we had enough organs for all, but what if they're limited. I realize people want priority for their family members, but what about everyone else?

 

[Reverend Rick]

That makes no sense. Universal health care is half as expensive as American health care. You'd be saving money, not spending more money. If the budget is your concern, you should be screaming for universal health care.

Lets do the math, if people live longer they collect money longer............

If health care costs half as much and three times as many sick folks join the rolls........

OK, I know, that sounds harsh but if we just stuck to basic health care and not expensive procedures and gave folks more refills that would be something to consider.

If this high end health care does not stop, people will not even have rent and grocery money in the future when we go bankrupt.

How can you expect to give some one an entitlement that over time costs the government more money than a person earned in a life time?

This money would be better spent on housing and education. :slap:

 

[Riverwolf]

Ya but did they have a debt like ours? =p

'Course not, 'cause they're greatest strength is the biggest reason why we'll never recover and that the United States is not going to last the century: Iceland has nine people in it.

Smaller countries tend to be stronger than larger ones that spread too thin.

 

[Riverwolf]

Lets do the math, if people live longer they collect money longer............

If health care costs half as much and three times as many sick folks join the rolls........

OK, I know, that sounds harsh but if we just stuck to basic health care and not expensive procedures and gave folks more refills that would be something to consider.

If this high end health care does not stop, people will not even have rent and grocery money in the future when we go bankrupt.

How can you expect to give some one an entitlement that over time costs the government more money than a person earned in a life time?

This money would be better spent on housing and education. :slap:

Then why does theoretical math disagree with reality in this case?

This isn't about elders; this is about young people.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Then why does theoretical math disagree with reality in this case?

This isn't about elders; this is about young people.

Oh, I agree this is about young people who need to be educated and have available affordable housing. We should give a 9 year old a transplant.......but not a 90 year old.

Question Wolf, lets say we find our balance and can get a sustainable system in place which is my main concern, keeping a system in place for another 100 years.

What if a billion people walk accross our border?