Why be against universal healthcare?

[Riverwolf]

I guess it all depends on if you think rebuilding people so they can live longer and be a burden on society is a good thing or not.

Giving folks new eyes, knees, hips and replacement organs should be a luxury not a right.

We all are going to die, living in a nursing home for ten years at the end of our lives is not desirable to me.

We should all live out our natural lives with basic health care and not fund extended life procedures.

It is selfish to do so expecting other to pay for this.

Would not this money be better spent on young families education or affordable housing?

How about funding hospital bills so we don't get punished for things beyond our control, such as accidents that destroy your leg to the point where it needs to be amputated entirely at the fault of someone else who decided that drinking before driving isn't a bad idea? With human augmentation technology getting ever closer, wouldn't you want to have your leg replaced so you can continue your dream of being an Olympic athlete? Or would you rather such unfortunates just hop around on a crutch forever more, crushed and broken simply so you can save a few pennies?

How about funding decent mental health support so I, as an aspie, actually have a chance at being productive at all? Or would you rather I suck up all that taxpayer money living in an institution? Or, perhaps, would you rather I just live out as a bum on the street or commit suicide and save you a few pennies?

Besides, your not paying for those luxuries. The government ought to do so because it's the government's job to look after its people. Without that, what's the point of government at all?

 

[MoonWater]

I'm sorry Penguin, I must have missed the part where I was required to fund other's pursuit of happiness.

Old folks draining the system is ruining other Americans pursuit of happiness, ever consider that?

What ever happened to retiring, buying a Cadillac and touring Europe for a decade and dieing while you still had something left and leaving it to your kids?

Please address the rest of my post, which do you see is a better way of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping Grandpa alive for 3 more months or spending these funds on a grand kid's education or their children's housing?

How can you justify a person receiving social security longer than they worked?

No society can support their children till they are 30 and turn around and give them another 40 years of retirement when they are only productive for 25 or 30 years.

Please show me how that math works? We need to get out of the way for the next generation and quit being so selfish.

I doubt our founding fathers ever envisioned old people living to be 100 years old at others expense. Pursuing happiness is not putting that burden on our young folks.

Just how happy is a person who does not even know their name crapping in their bed for years?

except it's not just about giving the elderly proper care, Rick. It's about making sure no one is forced into bankruptcy in order to pay for medical treatments, it's about making sure every mother has the opportunity to receive proper pre-natal care in order to give every child the best chance possible, it's about making sure those who have had their limbs amputated for whatever reason can get prosthetics and as such hold on to their independance, it's about making sure all children, all people can see a doctor and get proper preventative treatment instead of waiting for health problems to fester and get worse because insurance won't cover it otherwise.

You say that replacement organs should be a luxury? Tell that to the family of a ten year old girl who needs a lung transplant or heart transplant in order to live. Should extending her life be considered a "luxury"?

You think it's selfish to ask other people to help foot the bill for health care so everyone has an equal oppurtunity to live healthier, longer, and happier lives? Well I think it's selfish to refuse to help everyone afford proper care just so you can save some money. And it's even more selfish and ludicrous when you consider that the idea of "saving money" by denying universal healthcare is a complete falsehood because, as has been shown time and time again, those with universal coverage don't spend anywhere near as much money as we do for proper care and get better outcomes on top of that. If you need an example, just look at the fact that we have the highest infant mortality rate of all the developed nations and yet we are also the only developed nation that DOESN'T offer some form of universal coverage.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You say that replacement organs should be a luxury? Tell that to the family of a ten year old girl who needs a lung transplant......

Yes...I heard about this story today....So sad....!!!

Girl in need of lung highlights transplant rules' favoritism - CBS News

 

[Valjean]

Should those with mental or physical defects be allowed to die, then, rather than consuming public funds?
Maybe we should set up humane euthanasia centers...

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

I would say it's because our country is totally bankrupt. Where would we get the money for it? I can understand Canada having universal healthcare, but compare Canada to the US. It's sad to say that my country has turned into a giant leper colony. We can't afford the money, and we're already taxing people to death while borrowing from China. In theory, yes, it's good to give everyone healthcare, but we just don't have the money, and we have too many sick and obese people here. If we get out of this financial mess, and people start eating a little healthier, then we can bring back the topic of universal healthcare. Until then, it's just going to be another reason for us to borrow ourselves into a bigger debt.

I hear a lot that people accuse conservatives as being evil, but we're not(At least not any that I've met), but we just don't have the money. I don't know how clearer to make it that we're bankrupt.... If you guys want to help the poor so much, do what the rest of us do and give food or money to the homeless, or donate toys to a charity on Christmas, or spend your thanksgiving at the soup kitchen.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Oh, I heard about that 10 year old girl who needed the organ transplant. Did you guys know they might give an organ to a guy on death row?

Death-Row Inmate Seeks Organ Transplant - ABC News

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh, I heard about that 10 year old girl who needed the organ transplant. Did you guys know they might give an organ to a guy on death row?

Death-Row Inmate Seeks Organ Transplant - ABC News

And how are they comparable?

 

[Riverwolf]

I would say it's because our country is totally bankrupt. Where would we get the money for it? I can understand Canada having universal healthcare, but compare Canada to the US. It's sad to say that my country has turned into a giant leper colony. We can't afford the money, and we're already taxing people to death while borrowing from China. In theory, yes, it's good to give everyone healthcare, but we just don't have the money, and we have too many sick and obese people here. If we get out of this financial mess, and people start eating a little healthier, then we can bring back the topic of universal healthcare. Until then, it's just going to be another reason for us to borrow ourselves into a bigger debt.

I hear a lot that people accuse conservatives as being evil, but we're not(At least not any that I've met), but we just don't have the money. I don't know how clearer to make it that we're bankrupt.... If you guys want to help the poor so much, do what the rest of us do and give food or money to the homeless, or donate toys to a charity on Christmas, or spend your thanksgiving at the soup kitchen.

Or perhaps the government should do something better with its money than further it's international bullying cause.

If we really didn't have the money, then where is all that top-of-the-line military equipment coming from? The aliens?

Surely human life is more important than fancy new death toys.

 

[Valjean]

I would say it's because our country is totally bankrupt. Where would we get the money for it? I can understand Canada having universal healthcare, but compare Canada to the US. It's sad to say that my country has turned into a giant leper colony. We can't afford the money, and we're already taxing people to death while borrowing from China. In theory, yes, it's good to give everyone healthcare, but we just don't have the money, and we have too many sick and obese people here. If we get out of this financial mess, and people start eating a little healthier, then we can bring back the topic of universal healthcare. Until then, it's just going to be another reason for us to borrow ourselves into a bigger debt.

I hear a lot that people accuse conservatives as being evil, but we're not(At least not any that I've met), but we just don't have the money. I don't know how clearer to make it that we're bankrupt.... If you guys want to help the poor so much, do what the rest of us do and give food or money to the homeless, or donate toys to a charity on Christmas, or spend your thanksgiving at the soup kitchen.

But why would universal coverage be more expensive than what we have now? It would be cheaper. We'd save money!
The federal government already spends almost twice what Britain spends on its socialized Beveridge system -- and that's not counting our additional expenses for insurance premiums, deductibles and out-of-pocket payments.
You'd get similar savings with a not for profit private insurance system (Bismark) or Canadian style single payer NHI system.

If, as you say, we're bankrupt you'd think we'd try to economize by adopting one of the universal coverage systems.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

And how are they comparable?

They're comparable because I don't agree with people on death row getting organs when law abiding citizens need them too.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Or perhaps the government should do something better with its money than further it's international bullying cause.

If we really didn't have the money, then where is all that top-of-the-line military equipment coming from? The aliens?

Surely human life is more important than fancy new death toys.

We borrow from China. And much of the money is used on entitlements. And a lot goes to schools who's grades are actually getting lower, even with all the money we pump in.

 

[Valjean]

What are you calling entitlements?

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

But why would universal coverage be more expensive than what we have now? It would be cheaper. We'd save money!
The federal government already spends almost twice what Britain spends on its socialized Beveridge system -- and that's not counting our additional expenses for insurance premiums, deductibles and out-of-pocket payments.
You'd get similar savings with a not for profit private insurance system (Bismark) or Canadian style single payer NHI system.

If, as you say, we're bankrupt you'd think we'd try to economize by adopting one of the universal coverage systems.

Not everyone has coverage, so not everyone can get that surgery they want. It can be a lot more expensive if we cover everyone. And it would be a burden on the tax payers too. And the people who come here illegally also get free care, so you'd have to cut them out of it. If we cut off all these entitlements, especially for illegals, we can save the money and cover everyone. Remember that other countries don't have nearly as many sick and obese as us, so they don't have to spend nearly as much as us. If your idea works so good, why hasn't the government tried it?

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

What are you calling entitlements?

Disability would be one. My aunt isn't even disabled, and they send her disabilities checks. It's sad.

 

[Riverwolf]

They're comparable because I don't agree with people on death row getting organs when law abiding citizens need them too.

So nobody should get them?

 

[Riverwolf]

We borrow from China. And much of the money is used on entitlements. And a lot goes to schools who's grades are actually getting lower, even with all the money we pump in.

Don't make me laugh. Schools get virtually no money whatsoever.

 

[Riverwolf]

Disability would be one. My aunt isn't even disabled, and they send her disabilities checks. It's sad.

Therefore, screw those who actually are disabled?

 

[Riverwolf]

Not everyone has coverage, so not everyone can get that surgery they want. It can be a lot more expensive if we cover everyone. And it would be a burden on the tax payers too. And the people who come here illegally also get free care, so you'd have to cut them out of it. If we cut off all these entitlements, especially for illegals, we can save the money and cover everyone. Remember that other countries don't have nearly as many sick and obese as us, so they don't have to spend nearly as much as us. If your idea works so good, why hasn't the government tried it?

'Cause the government is made of a bunch of bickering, power-hungry politicians who care more about votes than the voters.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

So nobody should get them?

No. Law abiding citizens should, and not the criminals.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Therefore, screw those who actually are disabled?

No. They should make sure someone is actually disabled before sending them a check.