Why be muslim?

[Kirran]

It's easy to miss because it's so rare. Sadly him and so many others didn't even have a choice to not be educated on Islam. Compared to most Muslims in the U.S. there's no competition in how much has been pounded in. People generally mistake the negative stance and strong words for lack of info.

Fair enough, it is a very different situation. I still maintain what's being pounded in, however negative, is only an interpretation, not a representation of all Islam. Not that these more violent interpretations aren't common, they just aren't the totality of Islam. AFAIK.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

What do you want to cancel the history of Islam ???
Since 1400 years Muslims believe in those books ?
Why do you want canceled ??
Is it written in those books is not true ??

Can someone translate this?

 

[Kirran]

Can someone translate this?

I think I've got it:

Mahasn is saying that what you're saying is refuting the history of Islam, that Muslims have followed the teachings of the Qur'an for 1400 years, and then asking you if you want to refute this history because you think the Qur'an's content isn't true.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

I think I've got it:

Mahasn is saying that what you're saying is refuting the history of Islam, that Muslims have followed the teachings of the Qur'an for 1400 years, and then asking you if you want to refute this history because you think the Qur'an's content isn't true.

Thanks for the translation.

But I don't think he actually read or understood my comment if that was his genuine reply, it felt completely off-topic.

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for the translation.

But I don't think he actually read or understood my comment if that was his genuine reply, it felt completely off-topic.

I believe he's misunderstood to which books you were referring.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Perhaps.

 

[Smart_Guy]

are this a difficult question ???
it Is a simple question
What is the gift that God gives to the struggling Muslim in Paradise ??
God gives ( Horiat ) beautiful
For this reason
Muslim wishes martyrdom and death until he gets this ( beautiful women in Paradise )
2. This is a gift to the fights for the sake of God ??
3. This is a brainwashing ??
4-Suicidal Muslim believes that he gets these women in paradise ??
Teaching Jihad in Islam is associated with this sexual gift
??
Do you want more clarification ??
Islam is a terrorist idea ??
Jihad in order to get the gift of women in Paradise ( Alhoriat )

I'll continue to play along, but honestly I dunno for how long I can take it. You say you know Arabic AND you say you studies the Quran. Tell me then what do you understand from these two verses:

Translation:
And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
And whoever does that in aggression and injustice - then We will drive them into Fire.

The above only proves that killing one's self is forbidden Islam. Anyone, even the worst English users, can understand that.

Please stop claiming you know everything about Islam.

 

[morphesium]

I remember having a discussion with you and your such nice reply is something I already expected. As well as for your opinion. However I just needed to tell you that the "Islam" you are talking about is not the "Islam" I embrace. As for what you not agree with is a different discussion.

Stay safe.

Thank you. I know my many of my posts hurts a lot of innocent Muslims and that my posts are poles apart from them. - But there are reasons why I keep posting this way - I hope you know. There are a lot of innocent people suffering, being tortured because of this religion.


For many people “Islam” is a peaceful religion – who embrace Islam in the rightful sense; I just hope every Muslim say that. Unfortunately, I believe something went wrong in its implementation – apart from these peaceful Muslims, the rest of the Muslims are quite violent, contribute a major chunk to world violence.


Prophet Mohammed being a leader, at peaceful times, would have made very amiable laws, rules and regulations to make his country a better place to live in. and later at the times of war, would have made other extreme laws for the survival of his country. What I am thinking is that why (much of ) the Muslims prepare themselves as if it is a wartime (the laws are very harsh) when the conditions are actually very “peaceful”.


Why should one be punished with a 1000 flogs just because he said “I am an atheist” – just can’t agree with these.

 

[icehorse]

Hey Smart_Guy,

One pattern I see in these conversations - across many different threads - is that many Muslims defend their personal interpretations of Islam. While this is fair enough, it misses the bigger point.

If you're a peaceful person who believes in human rights, Islam frequently gets interpreted (by millions and millions of Muslims), in violent and/or inhumane ways.

So you can go on and on about "proper readings" of the scripture, the evidence in the world is that this scripture is often read and understood very differently. So, while I'd prefer to believe that you have the "correct" interpretations, many, many of the world's Muslims behave differently. So, as a non-believer, shouldn't I just look at the evidence?

 

[LuisDantas]

So you can go on and on about "proper readings" of the scripture, the evidence in the world is that this scripture is often read and understood very differently. So, while I'd prefer to believe that you have the "correct" interpretations, many, many of the world's Muslims behave differently. So, as a non-believer, shouldn't I just look at the evidence?

Also, if Muslims are entitled to have such severe internal disagreements, why can't non-Muslims simply take one side or another as they see fit?

And if it is true that those who take violent interpretations are in some sense not truly Muslims, then how can it be wrong to challenge them?

 

[Kirran]

Hey Smart_Guy,

One pattern I see in these conversations - across many different threads - is that many Muslims defend their personal interpretations of Islam. While this is fair enough, it misses the bigger point.

If you're a peaceful person who believes in human rights, Islam frequently gets interpreted (by millions and millions of Muslims), in violent and/or inhumane ways.

So you can go on and on about "proper readings" of the scripture, the evidence in the world is that this scripture is often read and understood very differently. So, while I'd prefer to believe that you have the "correct" interpretations, many, many of the world's Muslims behave differently. So, as a non-believer, shouldn't I just look at the evidence?

This is of course not addressed to me. But I'm going to be rude, and butt in to the conversation.

Also, I'm not a Muslim, so I'm giving an outsider's perspective here.

But I think that one cannot KNOW what was meant by much of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. We weren't there when it was written or said. So really we can interpret it as accurately as we can, and see what we think Muhammad pbuh really would have meant by various statements, and go with that. Nobody can know the meanings outright.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Also, if Muslims are entitled to have such severe internal disagreements, why can't non-Muslims simply take one side or another as they see fit?

They disagree on minor things within creeds, which is normal. But none are disagreeing on that Islam is not intolerant or violent, just different ways to view certain definitions of words and such on certain subjects.

I've never met a Muslim on these forums arguing Islam is violent and apostates should be beheaded, justifying it with scripture.

 

[Kirran]

They disagree on minor things within creeds, which is normal. But none are disagreeing on that Islam is not intolerant or violent, just different ways to view certain definitions of words and such on certain subjects.

I've never met a Muslim on these forums arguing Islam is violent and apostates should be beheaded, justifying it with scripture.

I have in real life. An otherwise perfectly-peaceful and friendly woman on my university course, who I often have conversations with about this verse and that verse of the Qur'an, reluctantly agreed that yes, an apostate who didn't repent should be executed.

 

[morphesium]

Agree with you humanly
But Islam does not believe in what you believe in him? J
Proof ( enemy of God )
Who is the enemy of God ??
He does not believe any human being in Islam and Muhammad ??
This is the true meaning of verse

Every religious text has laws that are unethical to our moral standards. There are phrases in bible that support slavery, not just Quran.

I agree that Muslims are contributing a lot to world violence, despite their population is just about ¼ of the world population and since it is the “action that speaks louder than voice”, it is a real threat to world peace. They reintroduce laws such as stoning, lashing, cut off limbs etc, to the society once they have a major share of the population – all being Islamic laws.


But then there are peaceful Muslims – peace loving ones. I happened to read an article about a doctor who was abducted by some Islamic terrorists in a foreign land and later the US forces rescued him.

The doctor while he was under their custody- they used to torture him mentally and killed a few of his non-American colleagues who were captured along with him. After a few days, he happened to ask a young militant what they are going to do with him – to which he answered “to bargain some money from the Americans government in return for your life”. They later became friends and then this militant said “your parents gave you education and made you a doctor and my parents made me a militant – they had no choice for anything else. If I come to your land, can I live there peacefully? Can I find a job there? Can you take me to your land? The same night he hears an explosion, which wakes him up from his sleep and then some firings and they were terrified. A minute later, a few people rushed into their room which was locked from the outside and said “don’t worry, you are safe” As they moved him to the helicopter, he had a glimpse of his “terrorist friend” lying dead there. The reason why I said this is this “there are peaceful ones even among the terrorists”.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

I have in real life. An otherwise perfectly-peaceful and friendly woman on my university course, who I often have conversations with about this verse and that verse of the Qur'an, reluctantly agreed that yes, an apostate who didn't repent should be executed.

*My point was a stereotypical Muslim as most anti-Muslims have in mind.

I know some in real life, too. I'm not denying the majority of Middle Eastern/African Muslims are backward, however, I've never met some sensible Muslim agreeing on this.

I did ask this question on a Muslim forum once - these were the responses on their theories (I agree with reply #3):

Why are muslims backward?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey Smart_Guy,

One pattern I see in these conversations - across many different threads - is that many Muslims defend their personal interpretations of Islam. While this is fair enough, it misses the bigger point.

If you're a peaceful person who believes in human rights, Islam frequently gets interpreted (by millions and millions of Muslims), in violent and/or inhumane ways.

So you can go on and on about "proper readings" of the scripture, the evidence in the world is that this scripture is often read and understood very differently. So, while I'd prefer to believe that you have the "correct" interpretations, many, many of the world's Muslims behave differently. So, as a non-believer, shouldn't I just look at the evidence?

You're making a good point. But I see that what you are saying is generic it could apply to any religion, philosophy, belief and law.

It also has the opposite view as well; e.g. Islam frequently gets interpreted (by millions and million of Muslims) in friendly and/or humane ways.

We are people. We have minds of our own. We are not perfect nor we are carbon copies of each other.

I'm interested tho, the two verses I gave up there, how can you interpret them in a violent or/and inhumane way? I would like to know your opinion in it.

 

[LuisDantas]

They disagree on minor things within creeds, which is normal. But none are disagreeing on that Islam is not intolerant or violent, just different ways to view certain definitions of words and such on certain subjects.

Disagreement is normal. Calling rulings about who deserves to be killed for apostasy "minor things", that I would like to believe not to be normal.

 

[Kirran]

I know some in real life, too. I'm not denying the majority of Middle Eastern/African Muslims are backward, however, I've never met some sensible Muslim agreeing on this.

I did ask this question on a Muslim forum once - these were the responses on their theories (I agree with reply #3):

Why are muslims backward?

This particular individual is Malaysian. Whether she'd support it if push came to shove, I don't know. I suspect not.

As for that thread, very interesting. I read the first few posts. Some very insightful points made.

 

[Kirran]

We have minds of our own.

Woah! We have a headline! Dude, I've gotta sign you up for an interview right now

 

[icehorse]

Hey Smart_Guy,

I respect you, and I appreciate our conversations. I'm afraid you would be very unhappy with my interpretation of about 99% of the Quran. (BTW, Christians would be equally unhappy with my interpretations of 99% of the Bible ).

But in this case, I think I could say that this message is not violent - hooray - but that it's hardly original.