Why believe The Bible?

[Jordan St. Francis]

Because you're exceptional. btw, would you answer some of my other outstanding questions?

Can you restate them?

 

[drs]

first was I raised at home to love and serve GOD? no

Second there are millions of people who go to church regularly and they will will tell you that they are Christians.

But only those who are truly born again with HOLY SPIRT OF GOD realy are.

 

[Autodidact]

first was I raised at home to love and serve GOD? no

Second there are millions of people who go to church regularly and they will will tell you that they are Christians.

But only those who are truly born again with HOLY SPIRT OF GOD realy are.

Slow down partner, we all know you love Jesus, we're just trying to get the facts here. You were sent to Sunday school as a child. What kind: Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Hindu, Christian?

 

[Autodidact]

Can you restate them?

Not certainly, but how about probability? The overwhelming probability is that, had you been raised Mormon in Utah, you would be Mormon today. What, if anything, does that say to you about religious belief in general and yours in particular?

The great majority of people in the world believe the religion they were raised to believe. Why do you think that is?

O.K., what exactly is it that makes you so different from all the people who were born in Saudi Arabia then?

Have you ever in your life met a Catholic who was raised Muslim?

99% of Saudi Arabians are Muslim. You believe that had you been born in Saudi Arabia, you would be Catholic. But you're not exceptional. How does that work?

You feel that you've found the truth about God and life. So do all the Punjabis and inhabitants of Salt Lake City, who also believe that due to their independent analysis of the evidence, they also just happened by sheer coincidence to find themselves believing exactly what they were raised to believe. Where does that leave you? What do you conclude from that?

Millions of people are raised Muslim. They're all Muslims. Millions of people are raised Hindu. They're all Hindu. See a pattern here? Let me put it this way: What about all those Muslims, Hindus, Mormons and so forth. Do you think they engaged critically, and with their moral and intellectual freedom, concluded that Islam, Mormonism and so forth are the most accurate truths to believe? Or do you think that just maybe the way they were raised had something to do with their adult faith?

You don't think that there's anything exceptional about you, but you also think that you are Catholic not because you were raised Catholic, but because of your independent assessment of the world's religions. Wouldn't that make you exceptional?

So what do you think about Taoism?

Well, either you're exceptional, which you say you're not, or, like million of Muslims, if you were born Muslim, you'd be Muslim. Which is it?

Well, either you're exceptional, which you say you're not, or, like million of Muslims, if you were born Muslim, you'd be Muslim. Which is it?

 

[Autodidact]

Jordan?

 

[Troublemane]

first was I raised at home to love and serve GOD? no

Second there are millions of people who go to church regularly and they will will tell you that they are Christians.

But only those who are truly born again with HOLY SPIRT OF GOD realy are.

wow, now thats the brave one to claim exclusivity to being truly christian, due to a specific ritual. I guess that settles it, anyone else claiming to be christian is just wrong. Guess that lumps them in with all the rest of us heathens! :angel2:

 

[Autodidact]

first was I raised at home to love and serve GOD? no

Second there are millions of people who go to church regularly and they will will tell you that they are Christians.

But only those who are truly born again with HOLY SPIRT OF GOD realy are.

So when I meet someone who describes themselves as Christian, I should assume they're a liar? Or just deluded, or what? Why are there people saying they're Christian, who aren't? And what percentage, would you say?

And, how do I know whether you're one?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Many theologically savy people quote the bible - taking it as the final word on the matter. My question is: "How do you know it's right?"

You don't. You can't reasonably say that.
You can reasonably say it wrong.

Would any of you be kind enough to tell me: If you hadn't been indoctorinated since birth into Christianity (as some people haven't; they converted later in life), what would persuade you to take a book, the Bible, and believe that what it says is true.

There are some (few) other reasons like for example personal problems or leaving another religion with basically similar ideas. Apart of that not much comes to mind.

And: What sets this book apart from other religious books, like the Tora(h?) - or vice versa?

There are many difference but that doesn't mean this book is "set apart"

Why would you believe one over the other?

People will believe in it for the sole reason that they have been brought up in that religion or left the other one.

Perhaps you had a religious experience? My friend tells me he was praying one day and as a man tried to approach him the man found he couldn't breathe while within 10 feet of my praying friend. That's cool, I amy be hesitant to believe that, but that's not what we're talking about. For the other 95% of us who haven't experienced such things, why would they commit themselves to blind faith?

Perhaps they can't stand reality.

My final question is: If you were to find out that the book was a lie, that I had infact written it around 2000 years ago, what would you do then (besides ask me the secret to my longevity)?

I guess i would shoot you the second you crossed my path. Because you caused such a book and by it so much harm letting all this nonsense stay alive for 2000 years, killing millions of people.

 

[drs]

So when I meet someone who describes themselves as Christian, I should assume they're a liar? Or just deluded, or what? Why are there people saying they're Christian, who aren't? And what percentage, would you say?

And, how do I know whether you're one?

As to the percentage I can no way give you a precise # but as the scripture below says it will be many.


Why are people saying Christian? because they have been deceved and also deceve themselfs.




Matthew 7<H5>I Never Knew You</H5>
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (New King James Version)



And for truly knowing what it is to be a Christian you will have to repent forsake sin and be reborn believing in LORD JESUS CHRIST as your only hope.

Also when people come with teachings that are not in the scripture and also dening the ones that are you know right there that is a problem.


Take Up the Cross and Follow Him


24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

 

[Autodidact]

So as I was saying drs, when I meet someone who calls themself Christian, I'd better assume that they're a liar? Is that what you're telling me? Or are they just deluded?

And that would apply to you, too, right? Because you say you're a Christian, right?

 

[drs]

So as I was saying drs, when I meet someone who calls themself Christian, I'd better assume that they're a liar? Is that what you're telling me? Or are they just deluded?

And that would apply to you, too, right? Because you say you're a Christian, right?[/quote


it looks to me like you did not read what I wrote.

but for you I will write it again.

unless you truly repent for your sins and become reborn by the HOLY SPIRT you will never know what it means to be a true Christian.

untill that happens the only other thing I can tell you is if anyone comes to you preaching any other teaching that is not in the bible or they come to you saying that certain things are untrue in the scriptue then you know you have a problem.

But if you do not study the bible how will you know?

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Not certainly, but how about probability? The overwhelming probability is that, had you been raised Mormon in Utah, you would be Mormon today. What, if anything, does that say to you about religious belief in general and yours in particular?

The great majority of people in the world believe the religion they were raised to believe. Why do you think that is?

O.K., what exactly is it that makes you so different from all the people who were born in Saudi Arabia then?

Have you ever in your life met a Catholic who was raised Muslim?

99% of Saudi Arabians are Muslim. You believe that had you been born in Saudi Arabia, you would be Catholic. But you're not exceptional. How does that work?

You feel that you've found the truth about God and life. So do all the Punjabis and inhabitants of Salt Lake City, who also believe that due to their independent analysis of the evidence, they also just happened by sheer coincidence to find themselves believing exactly what they were raised to believe. Where does that leave you? What do you conclude from that?

Millions of people are raised Muslim. They're all Muslims. Millions of people are raised Hindu. They're all Hindu. See a pattern here? Let me put it this way: What about all those Muslims, Hindus, Mormons and so forth. Do you think they engaged critically, and with their moral and intellectual freedom, concluded that Islam, Mormonism and so forth are the most accurate truths to believe? Or do you think that just maybe the way they were raised had something to do with their adult faith?

You don't think that there's anything exceptional about you, but you also think that you are Catholic not because you were raised Catholic, but because of your independent assessment of the world's religions. Wouldn't that make you exceptional?

So what do you think about Taoism?

Well, either you're exceptional, which you say you're not, or, like million of Muslims, if you were born Muslim, you'd be Muslim. Which is it?

Well, either you're exceptional, which you say you're not, or, like million of Muslims, if you were born Muslim, you'd be Muslim. Which is it?

Do I actually think were I born in Saudia Arabia I would be a Catholic today? Not likely, and I only ever said so as an intended hyperbole to offset the tactic that you are using to undermine my conversion as an intellectually free act.

That being said, I do not believe that my return to Christianity has hinged, in any essential or vital way, on the fact that it was the religion I was raised within (let us say it was a factor of convienence). Were I to have been born into a family of another faith, I believe my conversion would still have occured (eventually) given that the reasonable conditions of objectivity that I have lived in were reproduced.

The first condition is that I navigate through an onstenibly secular personal culture. I want to avoid making too broad a statement about Canadian culture than I have to, hence the word "personal" is there to indicate that in my location in Canadian society the following has been my experience. Though I think there are probably good reasons to extend what I am saying to Canadian culture at large. In my situation there was not a very strong Christian sub-culture, and certainly not Catholic, like I believe there may be in the United States which allows many Christians to ciphon themselves off with their fellow Christian Americans. In Canada we tend not to have the kind of ACLU v. the city hall Christmas tree scenarios. The abortion debate is quite over and our Prime Minister wouldn't talk about God in a national address. I just want to bring attention to the fact that my Canadian experience might be different than yours in America.

Secondly, even though I attended a Catholic highschool, it was quite diverse. I would say the majority of students were non-believers, at least certainly of my friends, and there were many Muslims (also among my friends) and members of other faiths. World religions was a mandatory course. The attitude towards religion was so apathetic in general that we had to sign a contract stating that we would take the class seriously.

I have been at a secular university for nearly four years now. The study of religion and culture is not, by any means, theology and questions of God are bracketed. Nearly all of my close friends, for many years, are agnostic and some atheist. In many ways I still feel as though I practice the faith on my own.

The philosopher Charles Taylor speaks of secularism as

"a new context in which all search and questioning about the moral and spiritual must proceed"...that it "puts an end to our naive acknowledgement of the transcendent, or of goals or claims which go behind human flourishing"...that "naivite is now unavailable to anyone, believer or unbeliever alike"

I would say that this is particularly true in my experience. Part of my secular experience has been the disorientation that comes with diversity. I was faced with a great deal of options and continue to be so. Though my home life was Catholic, my interaction with non-belief has always been a constant feature- so that in this sense my situation is obviously quite different from a Muslim who stays a Muslim in Saudia Arabia, or a even Hindu in India. I do wonder whether or not a healthy conception of secular society actually contributes to the purification of faith for those that do committ to it.

Related to the above then is the notion that this hypothetic situation would not include a culture or family life that would not allow me to pursue religious questions freely- that is, a family or a signficant set of relationships that would out-cast me or penalize me for conversion to another faith. As I told you, my original refusal to attend Mass did cause some disorder in my home (though even then it was always clear that I was accepted), but over time it became a family journey which drew us all closer together and broadeed everyone's spiritual vision. Typically on a Sunday morning you will not find my parents at Mass- they're at yoga now. Though they attend with me when I come home.

Thus, a neccessary condition is that apostasy would not alter, in any significant way, my social setting by severing key relationships- both with intimate friends and family- but also my society or culture at large. In an ostenibly Muslim society, to convert to another religion is often to sever or severely damage one's relationship with culture (which to varying degrees is neccesssary for a sense of self-agency) as well as other social institutions- so that one becomes culturally disenfranchised.

Another condition is obviously my exposure to ideas and the availability of information (high school cirriculum and university education).

I think were these factors reproduced, my conversion to Christianity would still have happened. I can not say exactly to what extent a reasonable degree of objecitivty is available for Mormons in Utah or the billions of other religious practicioners, especially those outside of the West.

Do I believe that others who have departed from their non-Christian faith, then returned, were actually convinced of the truth or merely resorting back to comforting ideas they were fed as children? I don't know. I am not equipped to make that evaluation, but I think its reasonable to assume that there are numbers in both camps. One can be convinced of religion on the part of independent analysis, seeing certain factors as a kind of data, and still be in error- myself included.

Finally, I stated before, it might be well that a healthy level of secularism is among the conditions neccessary for these kinds of questions to be answered. Even so, how would we even consider the secular United States, with its divisive culture war that is bound to excite passions and so, to some extent, obscure the individual's analysis?

Did the statistics you cite consider any of the above? Did they distinguish on account of cultural factors, expected levels of conformity, the levels of the public presence of religion, the availability of education and the like?

 

[Autodidact]

Do I actually think were I born in Saudia Arabia I would be a Catholic today? Not likely, and I only ever said so as an intended hyperbole to offset the tactic that you are using to undermine my conversion as an intellectually free act.

Oh, I see, your answer was dishonest. Well, you could have saved us a lot of time by just answering honestly in the first place.

btw, the fact that, when questioned like this, Christians resort to lying, is one of the many routine occurrences that has caused discussing religion with Christians to confirm my atheism. Obviously, if people feel the need to lie to defend their position, it raises significant questions about the validity of their position.

Oh, and you might want to apologize. I would.

That being said, I do not believe that my return to Christianity has hinged, in any essential or vital way, on the fact that it was the religion I was raised within (let us say it was a factor of convienence). Were I to have been born into a family of another faith, I believe my conversion would still have occured (eventually) given that the reasonable conditions of objectivity that I have lived in were reproduced.

The first condition is that I navigate through an onstenibly secular personal culture. I want to avoid making too broad a statement about Canadian culture than I have to, hence the word "personal" is there to indicate that in my location in Canadian society the following has been my experience. Though I think there are probably good reasons to extend what I am saying to Canadian culture at large. In my situation there was not a very strong Christian sub-culture, and certainly not Catholic, like I believe there may be in the United States which allows many Christians to ciphon themselves off with their fellow Christian Americans. In Canada we tend not to have the kind of ACLU v. the city hall Christmas tree scenarios. The abortion debate is quite over and our Prime Minister wouldn't talk about God in a national address. I just want to bring attention to the fact that my Canadian experience might be different than yours in America.

Secondly, even though I attended a Catholic highschool, it was quite diverse. I would say the majority of students were non-believers, at least certainly of my friends, and there were many Muslims (also among my friends) and members of other faiths. World religions was a mandatory course. The attitude towards religion was so apathetic in general that we had to sign a contract stating that we would take the class seriously.

I have been at a secular university for nearly four years now. The study of religion and culture is not, by any means, theology and questions of God are bracketed. Nearly all of my close friends, for many years, are agnostic and some atheist. In many ways I still feel as though I practice the faith on my own.

The philosopher Charles Taylor speaks of secularism as

I would say that this is particularly true in my experience. Part of my secular experience has been the disorientation that comes with diversity. I was faced with a great deal of options and continue to be so. Though my home life was Catholic, my interaction with non-belief has always been a constant feature- so that in this sense my situation is obviously quite different from a Muslim who stays a Muslim in Saudia Arabia, or a even Hindu in India. I do wonder whether or not a healthy conception of secular society actually contributes to the purification of faith for those that do committ to it.

Related to the above then is the notion that this hypothetic situation would not include a culture or family life that would not allow me to pursue religious questions freely- that is, a family or a signficant set of relationships that would out-cast me or penalize me for conversion to another faith. As I told you, my original refusal to attend Mass did cause some disorder in my home (though even then it was always clear that I was accepted), but over time it became a family journey which drew us all closer together and broadeed everyone's spiritual vision. Typically on a Sunday morning you will not find my parents at Mass- they're at yoga now. Though they attend with me when I come home.

Thus, a neccessary condition is that apostasy would not alter, in any significant way, my social setting by severing key relationships- both with intimate friends and family- but also my society or culture at large. In an ostenibly Muslim society, to convert to another religion is often to sever or severely damage one's relationship with culture (which to varying degrees is neccesssary for a sense of self-agency) as well as other social institutions- so that one becomes culturally disenfranchised.

Another condition is obviously my exposure to ideas and the availability of information (high school cirriculum and university education).

I think were these factors reproduced, my conversion to Christianity would still have happened. I can not say exactly to what extent a reasonable degree of objecitivty is available for Mormons in Utah or the billions of other religious practicioners, especially those outside of the West.

Do I believe that others who have departed from their non-Christian faith, then returned, were actually convinced of the truth or merely resorting back to comforting ideas they were fed as children? I don't know. I am not equipped to make that evaluation, but I think its reasonable to assume that there are numbers in both camps. One can be convinced of religion on the part of independent analysis, seeing certain factors as a kind of data, and still be in error- myself included.

Finally, I stated before, it might be well that a healthy level of secularism is among the conditions neccessary for these kinds of questions to be answered. Even so, how would we even consider the secular United States, with its divisive culture war that is bound to excite passions and so, to some extent, obscure the individual's analysis?

Did the statistics you cite consider any of the above? Did they distinguish on account of cultural factors, expected levels of conformity, the levels of the public presence of religion, the availability of education and the like?

Finally, an attempt to engage honestly and intelligently with the question. So you believe (and, obviously, you have a strong motivation to believe) that your identification with the same religion you were raised and educated in is a "free choice," primarily because, although your family is Catholic, you were raised in a somewhat secular society. A questionable assertion. Let's try to find out the likelihood of its being true. Let's take a secular society, such as Canada, the U.S. or Western Europe. There are people of various religious faiths in all of these places. For people who grow up in these countries, what do you think the pattern is? Do you think that there is a random pattern, with no strong correlation between religion of birth and adult religion? Or do you think there's a pretty strong correlation? (I'm trying to save myself the trouble of Googling this, but will work on it if necessary.)

Take a Mormon family living in Glasgow, a Muslim in Toronto, a Jew in Los Angeles, or a Catholic in Copenhagen. What religion do you think the children in each of these families are most likely to grow up to adhere to?

btw, kind of aside, I'm guessing that the reason it's important to you to establish that your religious belief is a "free choice" is to bolster its truth, with an implication that if you only believe it because you were raised to, and not because you objectively recognized its truth, it is less likely to be true. Would that be right?

 

[Autodidact]

So as I was saying drs, when I meet someone who calls themself Christian, I'd better assume that they're a liar? Is that what you're telling me? Or are they just deluded?

And that would apply to you, too, right? Because you say you're a Christian, right?[/quote


it looks to me like you did not read what I wrote.

but for you I will write it again.

unless you truly repent for your sins and become reborn by the HOLY SPIRT you will never know what it means to be a true Christian.

untill that happens the only other thing I can tell you is if anyone comes to you preaching any other teaching that is not in the bible or they come to you saying that certain things are untrue in the scriptue then you know you have a problem.

But if you do not study the bible how will you know?

I've studied the Bible plenty, thank you. Nothing like it for driving you away from Judaism or Christianity. I don't have much of a taste for genocide.

O.K., now try to follow along here. YOU SAY that most people who say they are Christian really aren't, right? So, those people who aren't really Christian but go around saying they are, are they completely self-deluded, are they liars, or something else, and if so, what? What makes them say something so important about themselves that isn't true?

Whatever it is, wouldn't you agree that as a general rule, I had better not trust what people-who-call-themselves-Christian say? I mean, whatever the reason, most of them are going around saying something that isn't true, right?

Following me so far? O.K., you are a person-who-calls-themself-Christian, right? So hadn't I better not trust anything you say?

If you think there's something wrong with my logic, please show me what. Thanks.

 

[Dunemeister]

Oh, I see, your answer was dishonest. Well, you could have saved us a lot of time by just answering honestly in the first place.

btw, the fact that, when questioned like this, Christians resort to lying, is one of the many routine occurrences that has caused discussing religion with Christians to confirm my atheism. Obviously, if people feel the need to lie to defend their position, it raises significant questions about the validity of their position.

Oh, and you might want to apologize. I would.

Don't be obtuse. The fact is he was using hyperbole, which is merely a rhetorical device. Don't confuse your lack of literary acumen with his lack of moral rectitude.

Finally, an attempt to engage honestly and intelligently with the question.

This oughta be good....

So you believe (and, obviously, you have a strong motivation to believe) that your identification with the same religion you were raised and educated in is a "free choice," primarily because, although your family is Catholic, you were raised in a somewhat secular society. A questionable assertion. Let's try to find out the likelihood of its being true. Let's take a secular society, such as Canada, the U.S. or Western Europe. There are people of various religious faiths in all of these places. For people who grow up in these countries, what do you think the pattern is? Do you think that there is a random pattern, with no strong correlation between religion of birth and adult religion? Or do you think there's a pretty strong correlation? (I'm trying to save myself the trouble of Googling this, but will work on it if necessary.)

Take a Mormon family living in Glasgow, a Muslim in Toronto, a Jew in Los Angeles, or a Catholic in Copenhagen. What religion do you think the children in each of these families are most likely to grow up to adhere to?

Your logic doesn't undermine what JSF said. There may well be an overall pattern according to which most people born in a religion stick with it. That doesn't mean in any particular case that sticking with it wasn't a free choice. Secular societies such as the US and Canada certainly do provide plenty of opportunity and pressure to evaluate religious choices. So there's every reason to think that those who stick with the religion they were born into do so as a free choice having reasoned the matter out. If JSF says he did so in his case, how can you gainsay him?

 

[drs]

I've studied the Bible plenty, thank you. Nothing like it for driving you away from Judaism or Christianity. I don't have much of a taste for genocide.

O.K., now try to follow along here. YOU SAY that most people who say they are Christian really aren't, right? So, those people who aren't really Christian but go around saying they are, are they completely self-deluded, are they liars, or something else, and if so, what? What makes them say something so important about themselves that isn't true?

Whatever it is, wouldn't you agree that as a general rule, I had better not trust what people-who-call-themselves-Christian say? I mean, whatever the reason, most of them are going around saying something that isn't true, right?

Following me so far? O.K., you are a person-who-calls-themself-Christian, right? So hadn't I better not trust anything you say?

If you think there's something wrong with my logic, please show me what. Thanks.

you have just said it you have studdied the bible plenty and nothing like it from driving you away from Christianity.

So you already reject LORD JESUS CHRIST so why are you worried who is Christian and who is not?

You should be worried about your own soul and if you want to know the truth it is right there in the bible so if you accept every word in there as true than you will be able to tell for yourself who is speaking truth and who is not.

 

[Autodidact]

Don't be obtuse. The fact is he was using hyperbole, which is merely a rhetorical device. Don't confuse your lack of literary acumen with his lack of moral rectitude.

Right. Here's what he said:

Yes, I do believe given the oppertunity to engage in Catholicism as I have I would still have converted even if I were born in Saudi Arabia. When I discovered the Faith- truly discovered it- I wept for the beauty of it. I was compelled by my conscience, is all I can simply say. I respect other faiths, especially the other monotheistic faiths, but I do see them as objectively deficient when compared to the doctrines Christian Faith.

We were supposed to recognize that as "hyperbole?" And then three apges of cross-examination and evasion before he describes it as such? Go on, pull the other one; it's got bells on.

Your logic doesn't undermine what JSF said. There may well be an overall pattern according to which most people born in a religion stick with it. That doesn't mean in any particular case that sticking with it wasn't a free choice. Secular societies such as the US and Canada certainly do provide plenty of opportunity and pressure to evaluate religious choices. So there's every reason to think that those who stick with the religion they were born into do so as a free choice having reasoned the matter out. If JSF says he did so in his case, how can you gainsay him?

I haven't engaged in any logic yet, so we don't know what it will imply. The first step is to determine the facts, then we can begin to draw our conclusions. So, what do you think, is a person born into a Jewish, Mormon, Muslim or Catholic family more, less or equally likely to end up believing in that same faith?

 

[Autodidact]

you have just said it you have studdied the bible plenty and nothing like it from driving you away from Christianity.

So you already reject LORD JESUS CHRIST so why are you worried who is Christian and who is not?

Huh? I don't reject LORD JESUS CHRIST any more than I reject LORD KRISHNA. I don't think there is any such thing.

You should be worried about your own soul

Doing fine, thanks.

and if you want to know the truth it is right there in the bible so if you accept every word in there as true than you will be able to tell for yourself who is speaking truth and who is not.

Nice evasion. I'll worry about what I like. After all, I might have a Christian plumber come to my home, and I'd need to know whether I could trust him to come in the door. Now would you answer my question? Thanks.

Did you see how Jordan's dishonesty confirmed my atheism? So does your evasion. If you felt confident in your position, you wouldn't have to evade questions about the consequences of it.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Oh, I see, your answer was dishonest. Well, you could have saved us a lot of time by just answering honestly in the first place.

Forgive me for assuming that this was not really a question about any particular geographic location, but truly a question of intellectually free choice. I was never concerned about this or that society, but with the underlying question of whether or nor birth automatically confers religious affiliation in my case.

Your point was obviously never specific to Saudi Arabia, but was was cited as an excessive example in the first place, given the present state of religious freedoms there. You couldn't possibly consider statistics on religious membership in such a state to indicate trends with much meaning for a person living in Canadian or American society- your original usage of this example seemed to employ hyperbole in the first place.

 

[drs]

Huh? I don't reject LORD JESUS CHRIST any more than I reject LORD KRISHNA. I don't think there is any such thing.

Doing fine, thanks. Nice evasion. I'll worry about what I like. After all, I might have a Christian plumber come to my home, and I'd need to know whether I could trust him to come in the door. Now would you answer my question? Thanks.

Did you see how Jordan's dishonesty confirmed my atheism? So does your evasion. If you felt confident in your position, you wouldn't have to evade questions about the consequences of it.

Ofcourse you reject LORD JESUS CHRIST otherwise you would repent for your sins and live obediantly to all that he has commanded.

Now that is silly, a plumber coming to your home has nothing to do with the truth of GOD.

you should check their refferences before you have any work done in you house to make sure they are reputable just like when a Christian tells about the bible you should check with the scripture to make sure what they are saying is reputable.


I don't see how I am not anwsering you.

you keep asking how do you know that I am a Christian.

And I can only tell you do not take my word for it, my word is meaningless all that matters is the truth that GOD has given in scripture notthing added nothing taken away.