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why can't we have a relationship with other men?

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
All provided examples above are either human or wild behaviors/ethics and how they are formed etc..
kindly expand on provided phrase (Nature as a whole has no inherent ethics???) with example of Nature itself only. For Example to me the sun rise and dawn every single day, week, month, years, centuries is constant phenomena (Unless replaced by nature itself in the form of cloud/rain etc).

Nature is not a Singular Thing, but an aggregate of Many Things.

The Sun projects light, heat, and other forms of radiation. Her Light can provide vitamin D, which is good for our bones. Her Light also provides the ingredients for plants to make food.

But that Light can also cause burns, illness, and skin cancer in the case of prolonged exposure, especially to people such as myself who are very light-skinned, and She does not change her Light to accommodate us.

The Sun brings Life and Death together in the same Light, and our presence has had absolutely no effect on Her projection. If She's aware of us(if She's even aware at all), She doesn't care.

Even when the Rain comes, the Sun continues to shine. Her Light just doesn't reach the cloudy place. (Fun side note: that's a large part of why Northern Europeans have light skin; those regions have a lot more rain, clouds, and fog than other parts of the world, in addition to having long winter nights. So we evolved skin that was better capable of absorbing that Light in those low-light lands.)

Ethics are about promoting life while avoiding death as much as possible. In Nature, both Life and Death come together from the same thing. When the Sky and the Earth make love, the resulting Rains bring both Life (in the form of fertilizing and feeding plants) and Death (in the form of floods). Their passion can often be so great as to produce great winds, bringing Death to vast areas of land, but that also spreads the Life-bringing Rain to larger tracks of land.
 

One God

Member
Agreed. Nature has 3 qualities (Creation, Preservation, Destruction). It's a cycle that has it's own behavior or you may say ethic.
I wouldn't compare advantages over dis-advantages of sun, water, rain etc. The way I see it, is that if I do not understand it today that doesn't make it the worse.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Agreed. Nature has 3 qualities (Creation, Preservation, Destruction). It's a cycle that has it's own behavior or you may say ethic.

A behavior is not an ethic. These two words are not synonymous.

I also regard Nature as being far more than those three broad concepts.

I wouldn't compare advantages over dis-advantages of sun, water, rain etc. The way I see it, is that if I do not understand it today that doesn't make it the worse.
Nothing "worse" about it. I said nothing about advantages or disadvantages. Just the Way Things Are.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I don't mean like doing orgies and wicked stuff like that. But why can't we make love to people of our gender. I don't get it. I am attracted to men.

You class yourself as Christian and you have to ask that? It is not natural it is not normal, it does not bring about life it brings about death, it has helped spread a worldwide epidemic. Do you not know what the different members of the body are for? This is not difficult.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
You class yourself as Christian and you have to ask that? It is not natural it is not normal, it does not bring about life it brings about death, it has helped spread a worldwide epidemic. Do you not know what the different members of the body are for? This is not difficult.

Balderdash, poppycock, rigmarole, muuuuhlaaarkeeeee
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
It is not natural

Yes it is.

it is not normal,

That's for a given culture to decide.

it does not bring about life

Love is Life.

it brings about death,

Its suppression brings about death via suicides and witch-hunts.

it has helped spread a worldwide epidemic.

Homosexuality did not contribute to any epidemic any more than any other sexuality.

Do you not know what the different members of the body are for?

Irrelevant. We can use them however we want so long as nobody's getting hurt.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Yes it is.

That's for a given culture to decide.

Love is Life.

Its suppression brings about death via suicides and witch-hunts.

Homosexuality did not contribute to any epidemic any more than any other sexuality.

Irrelevant. We can use them however we want so long as nobody's getting hurt.

Correct me if I am wrong, but after the theory of aids coming from chimps in Africa, it was first seen in homo men. Are you saying that is wrong?

EDIT:
If you are saying it is natural, then so is murder; if so, why do we have prisons? Are you suggesting that we let them out?

As for what is normal, that is what God decides and what Man messes up and answers for, like Aids for men who lie with men.

Love is not life, procreation brings about life.

Witch hunts etc also bring about death, as all bad practices do.

As for no one getting hurt, millions are orphaned thousands die from it, some as young as three and four. What do they know of the freedom we give immorality in the West. Don't do it, and we don't see Aids.
 
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Curious George

Veteran Member
Seriously though, hasn't this all been discussed somewhere in the last 215 pages?

Does anyone else see the trending circles? #overkill#let it go#frozen?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
it is not irrelevant, if God wanted men to have sex with other men he would have made it pleasurable to stick one's penis in another's anus.... Oh wait....

So we might also conclude from that that he wanted us to bash each others heads in; or are you saying that is right also?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but after the theory of aids coming from chimps in Africa, it was first seen in homo men. Are you saying that is wrong?

Hell, there are theories that it doesn't exist. That HIV was just a cockamamie theory cooked up by the CDC to save a piece of American bureaucracy. It doesn't mean it's true.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I have never heard a basher and a bashee claim pleasure from such an act.

If you are saying that it is ok because the two involved want to commit an immoral act, then what of people who die, like children, who are not innocent? There were two recently on RT news who died aged three and four. Why defend something which brings about death and is not sound as an argument in any way shape or form. Do you not care about innocent people?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
So we might also conclude from that that he wanted us to bash each others heads in; or are you saying that is right also?

In all honesty, I understand what you are suggesting. But the "it's not natural" argument is a vague cliche. It is not designed to persuade rather to vocally condemn something. One side says it's not natural, the other side says it's natural and blah blah blah. At the end of the day-where are we? Right where we began. surely if you are posting in this thread, you must already know the counter arguments?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
If you are saying that it is ok because the two involved want to commit an immoral act, then what of people who die, like children, who are not innocent? There were two recently on RT news who died aged three and four. Why defend something which brings about death and is not sound as an argument in any way shape or form. Do you not care about innocent people?

Do you honestly feel this is not a exaggeration and vilification of an opposing side?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
If you are saying that it is ok because the two involved want to commit an immoral act, then what of people who die, like children, who are not innocent? There were two recently on RT news who died aged three and four. Why defend something which brings about death and is not sound as an argument in any way shape or form. Do you not care about innocent people?

Nope, nothing to do with consent. It was a mockery of the "God's intent" argument. it was designed "to bring amusement to a small number of men of wit."
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Correct me if I am wrong, but after the theory of aids coming from chimps in Africa, it was first seen in homo men. Are you saying that is wrong?

I never heard anything like that.

If it's true, it's coincidence.

In any case, STIs are contracted from unprotected sex (among other activities where body fluids are recklessly shared) regardless of orientation.

EDIT:
If you are saying it is natural, then so is murder; if so, why do we have prisons? Are you suggesting that we let them out?
I was simply saying that it was natural in response to the claim that it's not natural. The statement that homosexuality is natural makes no judgment call on its virtue.

However, murder and homosexuality are incomparable. One inherently causes harm, the other doesn't.

I explained the relationship between nature and ethics earlier.

As for what is normal, that is what God decides and what Man messes up and answers for, like Aids for men who lie with men.
I've seen no indication that any God decides what's normal(and frankly, I want nothing to do with any such God), and that only cultures decide that. If aids was because of homosexuality, then only homosexuals would get it. However, that isn't the case.

Love is not life, procreation brings about life.
Love keeps us alive.

Witch hunts etc also bring about death, as all bad practices do.
IOW, persecution of homosexuals is bad because it brings about death.

As for no one getting hurt, millions are orphaned thousands die from it, some as young as three and four. What do they know of the freedom we give immorality in the West. Don't do it, and we don't see Aids.
Aids exists outside of homosexuality, and so the two are not linked together. After all, we see a major epidemic of HIV in Africa, and I seriously doubt they approve of homosexuality, there. However, they do seriously disapprove of the use of condoms.

Therefore, HIV, like all other STIs, comes from unprotected sex, not necessarily homosexuality.

Besides, homosexual couples allow for orphans to get good homes where they might otherwise never have gotten one.

Homosexual relationships aren't necessarily any more sexual than heterosexual relationships.

If you're going to make the claim that children die from two adult men engaging in safe, consensual sex, then you're going to have to explain the link in more detail.
 
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Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Nope, nothing to do with consent. It was a mockery of the "God's intent" argument. it was designed "to bring amusement to a small number of men of wit."

I don't know if your a homosexual or not, but you certainly seem to be defending them. I for one don't have a problem with the fact that they might like one another, but how does that lead to the act? That is that point, if you take out that, we don't have Aids. Aids kills people. I don't know why we even have to argue this point with anyone, I guess it shows the immorality of the West, or is it of Man?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I don't know if your a homosexual or not, but you certainly seem to be defending them. I for one don't have a problem with the fact that they might like one another, but how does that lead to the act? That is that point, if you take out that, we don't have Aids. Aids kills people. I don't know why we even have to argue this point with anyone, I guess it shows the immorality of the West, or is it of Man?

What happened to Job's friends again?

You seem to be pretty hung up on AIDS. Is your argument, then, increased AIDS risk makes homosexuality wrong?
 
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