why can't we have a relationship with other men?

[tumbleweed41]

I accept them because they cannot help being gay, it's what they are, but I am not going to say its not a flaw in there being.

doesnt mean I have a problem with them, just means I will not BS myself like others.

Is it only sexuality that you consider genetic flaws? Or do you also consider the photo sneeze reflex, male pattern baldness, left-handedness, and red hair as being flawed?

Not that you have a problem with any of them.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I accept them because they cannot help being gay, it's what they are, but I am not going to say its not a flaw in there being.

doesnt mean I have a problem with them, just means I will not BS myself like others.

OK. I'm the same way about Buddhists. They can't help being Buddhists, but I'm not going to deny that something is fundamentally wrong with them.

I actually support their right to be flawed and unnatural, with miswired brains!

Same with genius-IQ people. Their brains are miswired. They are flawed and unnatural. Something is really wrong about them, but I have no problem with them.

 

[savethedreams]

*raises hand* Does god even differentiate or see people by gender? If he does does he see people by Race and nationality? If he does doesn't that make he slightly prejudice. I wouldn't even question that that logic even exist if their is a god that see people by Gender...

 

[idav]

edit: nevermind.

 

[jtartar]

I don't mean like doing orgies and wicked stuff like that. But why can't we make love to people of our gender. I don't get it. I am attracted to men.

davidthegreek,
You can make love to anyone you wish, BUT remember that God is going to bring you into judgement for all the things you do, Ecc 11:9.
Jehovah, the God of the Bible, is the great Nomothetic God, Lawgiver, because He is the creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them, He has the right and authority to decide what is the best for His creation. God created mankind male and female in order to carry out His mandate to multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it, Gen 1:26-26. In God's eyes, it seem that it is unnatural, disgusting to God for a man to lie with another man, or for a woman to lie with anothe woman, as a man lies with a woman. The fact is all who do such practices will not be in God's kingdom, Lev 20:13, 18:22.
Also the prohibition seems to be written in the Christian Greek Scriptures, Rom 1:24-32, 1Cor 6:8-11, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-7, Col 3:5,6, 1Tim 1:9,10, Rev 21:7,8, 22:14,15.
Notice all the things that keep people from being in God's Kingdom. None of these things are the unforgivable sin, Matt 12:31,32. All these things can be forgiven, in fact the Bible even mentions that some of God's people were guilty of these things before they learned of God's requirements. The became clean by being washed in the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ, by repenting of their sins, and turning around, 1Cor 6:11, Rev 7:13-17. There is hope for all of us!!!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

yes its involentary, thats why they can not be blamed, and the behaviour hurts no one.

but being involuntary proves its caused by something within the brain that is conflicting and in direct contradiction to their physical body.

We do not know what causes people to have this sexual orientation or that. All we have is theories - ideas, some of which are more grounded in reality than others. Sexuality, both in humans and in non-human animals - is a lot more complicated than you are proposing. We know it's not a matter of environment. So it's not a matter of "nurture". We haven't found any "gay gene" (or "bisexual gene", or "straight gene", or "asexual gene", or "pansexual gene" for that matter). We don't have any evidence that non-straight people are chemically or hormonally different from heterosexuals. Nor do we have any evidence that the brain of a gay man or lesbian is any different from the brain of a straight man or woman, respectively.

So your ideas about this are without any foundation. So what it is really coming down to is behavior. Since homosexual behavior isn't objectively any worse or better, in general, than heterosexual behavior, we have no objective grounds to say there is anything "wrong" with people who are at least partially homosexual in their sexual behavior. They are simply following their own natural erotic desires which, objectively and generally, harm no one and are consensual.

 

[mayuboar]

We do not know what causes people to have this sexual orientation or that. All we have is theories - ideas, some of which are more grounded in reality than others. Sexuality, both in humans and in non-human animals - is a lot more complicated than you are proposing. We know it's not a matter of environment. So it's not a matter of "nurture". We haven't found any "gay gene" (or "bisexual gene", or "straight gene", or "asexual gene", or "pansexual gene" for that matter). We don't have any evidence that non-straight people are chemically or hormonally different from heterosexuals. Nor do we have any evidence that the brain of a gay man or lesbian is any different from the brain of a straight man or woman, respectively.

So your ideas about this are without any foundation. So what it is really coming down to is behavior. Since homosexual behavior isn't objectively any worse or better, in general, than heterosexual behavior, we have no objective grounds to say there is anything "wrong" with people who are at least partially homosexual in their sexual behavior. They are simply following their own natural erotic desires which, objectively and generally, harm no one and are consensual.

you are aware that your brain governs your thought yes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

you are aware that your brain governs your thought yes.

Did you read my post? I said that we don't know what causes people to have certain romantic/sexual attractions. So all you're able to offer in that is conjecture.

Besides, thoughts apparently don't originate from the brain. They are immaterial things, as they are an aspect of consciousness. When you think something, the brain responds to it accordingly, not the other way around, as far as I know. So if you're going to talk about thought, you're getting into metaphysical or philosophical territory.

 

[Penumbra]

no one has yet told me what makes someone attracted to the same sex.

i dont believe you all know because despite being gay you all cannot say why you are, other then you are attracted to the same,no s@#t, but why.

Well I'm heterosexual and I can't say why I'm attracted to dudes.

But I am. It's kind of like magic.

I accept them because they cannot help being gay, it's what they are, but I am not going to say its not a flaw in there being.

doesnt mean I have a problem with them, just means I will not BS myself like others.

That's kind of how I view people that aren't particularly knowledgeable about homosexuality.

Kind of like, "well, I can't really blame them for their flaws, they can't help it, but it's certainly a flaw."

 

[Ken Brown]

Source?

Hi tumbleweed41, I wrote the following and you have asked for a source:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Brown
Hi tumbleweed41, aren't you aware that He married two sisters, and they started sleeping around with other gods, and time after time He tried to get them back in His bed, but they refused, and then He had to divorce the one, and should have divorced the other? You are not aware of all that? KB

Source: Isa 50:1, Hosea 2:2, Jer 3:8-10,14, and Mal 2:11. KB

 

[Ken Brown]

Ahh, there is a typo within my post. That first line should read: "It's written in two places and from my (what I would consider comparatively extensive) study of it there's no other way to interpret what's written than to mean that men should not have sex with other men."

I am unable to edit the post now, but thank you for pointing out the disparity.

In order to find someone guilty of such an act you would need to have at least two witnesses to the act.

I wasn't condoning it if there are no witnesses, but advocating that we do not condemn people without actual witnesses of the event. In other words, we're not condoning the sin, we're simply not prejudging people based on factors that don't necessarily indicate that they are sinning.

I have no reason to believe you are sinning unless I actually witness you doing so. For me to treat you differently because I think you might have sinned even though I don't know that for sure is something I think everyone in society should seek to avoid.

I can see now where your misunderstanding came into play. I should re-read my posts more carefully before posting them. I didn't know we had an expiration date on the edit button.

Hi TheKnight, thank you so much for clarifying your position, I really thought you did leave out the word "not," but then with your other statements, I was puzzled.

Now, since that is cleared up, and all we have to do is find out if there are two credible witnesses to this sin, then I would like to re-establish that the diseases associated with "men having sex with men," is ONE witness testifying to the fact that they are doing what the diseases say they are doing. The second witness is "gay pride" as they openly and very proudly declare or testify to their sin. So, this was my biblical point that we do have two witnesses...their diseases and open confession. What more do we need to be compliant with the Torah? KB

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hi tumbleweed41, I wrote the following and you have asked for a source:

Hi tumbleweed41, aren't you aware that He married two sisters, and they started sleeping around with other gods, and time after time He tried to get them back in His bed, but they refused, and then He had to divorce the one, and should have divorced the other? You are not aware of all that? KB

Source: Isa 50:1, Hosea 2:2, Jer 3:8-10,14, and Mal 2:11. KB

Interesting take. Not one I have ever heard before, but I tend to give more credence to Jewish interpretations of the OT over Christian, or other, interpretations.

 

[TheKnight]

Now, since that is cleared up, and all we have to do is find out if there are two credible witnesses to this sin, then I would like to re-establish that the diseases associated with "men having sex with men," is ONE witness testifying to the fact that they are doing what the diseases say they are doing. The second witness is "gay pride" as they openly and very proudly declare or testify to their sin. So, this was my biblical point that we do have two witnesses...their diseases and open confession. What more do we need to be compliant with the Torah? KB

Actually, neither of those are Torah-valid witnesses (the witnesses need to be not-related people of good standing). Not only are they not Torah-valid witnesses, they aren't even witnesses. Having a diseases is not evidence of homosexual sexual behavior.

Attendance at a gay pride parade is not evidence of homosexual sexual behavior.

In fact, even if a person shouted that they were gay at a gay pride parade with their same sex partner to whom they were married it still wouldn't be evidence that they are violating the Torah prohibition of having sex with one another.

It would be enough to reasonably suspect, but not to conclude with certainty, not enough to condemn or ostracize.

My point wasn't that we cannot hold people accountable, but that we should not be so quick to condemn/ostracize people. Especially when the alternatives for said people are extremely limited.

 

[mayuboar]

so no one can tell me if its a chemical reaction, a genetic thing, a lifestyle choice.
why is that.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

so no one can tell me if its a chemical reaction, a genetic thing, a lifestyle choice.
why is that.

Because we don't know the answer.

No one can tell you how life began on earth. We don't know that answer yet, either.

 

[mayuboar]

fair enough, enjoy your relationships then, and i mean that.

 

[tumbleweed41]

so no one can tell me if its a chemical reaction, a genetic thing, a lifestyle choice.
why is that.

Studies have found many physiological and cognitive factors that contribute to same-sex attraction. Just as there are physiological and cognitive factors that contribute to many other human attractions, emotions, preferences and dislikes.

The only people who advocate that is is a lifestyle choice are those who ignore those contributing factors, along with genetic studies, in favor of their own bigoted views.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

fair enough, enjoy your relationships then, and i mean that.

It's odd to me how you assume that anyone who defends homosexuality must be homosexual.

Do you also believe that if I argue for legal marijuana or prostitution, that I must be a dope-smoker who runs with hookers?

 

[mayuboar]

It's odd to me how you assume that anyone who defends homosexuality must be homosexual.

Do you also believe that if I argue for legal marijuana or prostitution, that I must be a dope-smoker who runs with hookers?

did not say you, it is obvious i was refering to gay people.

dont draw at straws it is really quite simple.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi TheKnight,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbath Shalom!
You wrote:
"In fact, even if a person shouted that they were gay at a gay pride parade with their same sex partner to whom they were married it still wouldn't be evidence that they are violating the Torah prohibition of having sex with one another."
This is the testimony of Moses:
Deuteronomy 30:19
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
It is my testimony that my Brother, Ken Brown, has given you several witnesses against the immoral sexual relationships or activities that occur between same sex men and women.
Even so, the ultimate witness for a righteous life style according to Moses is life. Death, therefore, according to Moses, is a witness against a wicked life style. In 3500 years, how many practicing homosexuals have been blessed to avoid physical death? If they all witness death, what is necessary in order for homosexuals to witness life?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr