Why Did God Create Atheists?

[Mock Turtle]

So why do you think atheists don't indoctrinate children with atheism and only religious people and religions at large do?

They might do. Done any research as to such? As I've said, it's the schooling that is more important to me, given we can't do much about what happens in the home but we can do so as to what they get as general tuition. Or is learning about other faiths so awful?

 

[firedragon]

They might do. Done any research as to such?

What research do you have done to prove religions indoctrinate but not atheism?

As I've said, it's the schooling that is more important to me, given we can't do much about what happens in the home but we can do so as to what they get as general tuition. Or is learning about other faiths so awful?

So same thing applies to your extreme bias. How do you prove that religions indoctrinate children in school but not atheism? Is not that if true "awful"? Atheists are fighting for no school education in religion. Is learning about other religions so awful?

 

[paarsurrey]

Who knows, but it just is reality that children are so easily influenced as to what they imbibe even if much just isn't true. I'm sure you have come across the old saying, attributed to Aristotle - “Give me a child until he[she] is seven and I will show you the man[woman].” This may refer to character but it might equally apply to the fundamental beliefs that are often driven into them whilst children.

Why would we have so many having different religions, and such often being in conflict with others, if they all could somehow see some 'essential truth'? Would you want all to be educated as to your particular religious beliefs or would you be fine with children learning as to all such and even as to what atheists or agnostics believe? At least I'm offering a more level and impartial teaching - as to schools, that is.

" I'm offering a more level and impartial teaching - as to schools, that is"

If the "none"s would have confidence in their "none"ity, they would have suggested some periodical symposia in the schools for introduction of the religions or no-religions in the schools and the colleges and the universities, so that students could decide for themselves of the truth. Right?

Regards

 

[1213]

...
But god says incest is a sin.
...

Please show the scripture that says so?

 

[Wildswanderer]

For most. There are psychopaths. I'm disturbed that it takes an outside influence to instill compassion and empathy in others. It's disconcerting.

But nothing is perfect, I suppose. Not even creation.

What you are missing is that we all have that influence. It's not outside, it's part of most people because God created us to be moral creatures.

 

[Mock Turtle]

" I'm offering a more level and impartial teaching - as to schools, that is"

If the "none"s would have confidence in their "none"ity, they would have suggested some periodical symposia in the schools for introduction of the religions or no-religions in the schools and the colleges and the universities, so that students could decide for themselves of the truth. Right?

Regards

Well I suspect that a study of comparative religions alone would satisfy most atheists, and allow the children to make up their own minds. What we have at the moment in so many countries is nowhere near this. And we are talking about young children. What adults do is their affair.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Well I suspect that a study of comparative religions alone would satisfy most atheists, and allow the children to make up their own minds. What we have at the moment in so many countries is nowhere near this. And we are talking about young children. What adults do is their affair.

We were taught comparative religions at my Catholic school in the 1960s. And most of our teachers were pretty tolerant and liberal as I recall.

Not saying it was perfect, but I got a decent education there, and nothing was forced down my throat. And I’m glad I was taught a little bit about my own history and culture, which is slightly outside the mainstream for England (most of the kids at my school came from Irish or Italian families).

 

[Mock Turtle]

What research do you have done to prove religions indoctrinate but not atheism?

As far as I am aware they don't teach atheism in religious schools, and although there might be atheist schools I doubt they are in any way as abundant as what happens in many or even most countries.

So same thing applies to your extreme bias. How do you prove that religions indoctrinate children in school but not atheism? Is not that if true "awful"? Atheists are fighting for no school education in religion. Is learning about other religions so awful?

Extreme bias? Not me. I'm the one attempting to solve the issue of conflicts arising from all the various different religious beliefs. Perhaps it has all passed you by?

You seem to be defending the indefensible, given that religious beliefs are inherently passed on to children via schools in many countries. Why so resistant to simply allow comparative religious studies? Not because it might cause a drop in any particular religious belief surely - like yours?

 

[Mock Turtle]

We were taught comparative religions at my Catholic school in the 1960s. And most of our teachers were pretty tolerant and liberal as I recall.

Not saying it was perfect, but I got a decent education there, and nothing was forced down my throat. And I’m glad I was taught a little bit about my own history and culture, which is slightly outside the mainstream for England (most of the kids at my school came from Irish or Italian families).

Think this might be so in a predominantly Islamic country?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

"Why Did God Create Atheists"?

He had some spare parts left over.

I read, "He had some spare parts left over," and the first thought that came to my mind was, "It's alive! It's alive! "

 

[RestlessSoul]

Think this might be so in a predominantly Islamic country?

Unlikely, I’d have thought. Turkey maybe?

 

[firedragon]

You seem to be defending the indefensible, given that religious beliefs are inherently passed on to children via schools in many countries.

Same as Atheism.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Same as Atheism.

Except I don't think atheism is taught in schools.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

So you are fighting hard to indoctrinate children in schools?

I believe he's a humanist as am I. We fight to to prevent indoctrination in school, hence no class prayer or creationism in public schools. Perhaps you are unsure about the difference between indoctrination and education. The former involves only repetition, not evidence or sound argument, as with Sunday school creationism indoctrination. Contrast that with a university course in evolution, in which the evidence available to Darwin and his interpretation of its significance is presented. No part of that is likely to be repeated. If you miss that class, you'll need to get a buddy's notes or lust read the text if you want to answer test questions from that lecture correctly. Another important difference between the two is that your professor won't ask you if you believe it or chastise you if you don't.

What research do you have done to prove religions indoctrinate but not atheism?

Prove? Did you mean learn?

The same research usually done to acquire information: experience, trial-and-error, observation of how people think and behave. I've interacted with hundreds of theists and atheists. I've been both myself.

How does one indoctrinate atheism, and why would one?

My parents were atheists. I grew up until about age 19 without religion. They never mentioned the word atheism. They never discussed gods. I wouldn't even have known religion existed or heard about gods had it not come from the television or other sources other than my parents.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The Bible says that everyone has a basic knowledge there is a Creator; through seeing creation and the awareness being manifest within us

Except that that is contrary to my experience. As I just explained to firedragon, the idea that everything came from a god was never in my mind until I converted to Christianity, where the notion was presented as doctrine, that is, as an insufficiently supported claim that is repeated without sound argument or compelling evidence (that's how DOCTRINE gets IN a head, hence indoctrination).

It was not incest or sin in the beginning when the human race and DNA was not as impacted by the damage of sin

If you want to bring DNA into the creation story, you've got a problem. Eve was a clone of Adam.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

You didn't comment on the argument. I would hope that if you disagreed, you would say where and why. Did I answer your question to your satisfaction?

 

[firedragon]

Except I don't think atheism is taught in schools.

So whats your definition of atheism?

 

[firedragon]

We

Who is this "we"? you have a religious type of group?

Prove? Did you mean learn?

No.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well I suspect that a study of comparative religions alone would satisfy most atheists, and allow the children to make up their own minds. What we have at the moment in so many countries is nowhere near this. And we are talking about young children. What adults do is their affair.

The " None"s, all their shades/sects/denomination have nothing to tell to their Children, to educate and train them for their "none"ity (or whatever), so they focus to shift its burden on to the religions as they are used to doing it, I gather, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Mock Turtle]

The " None"s, all their shades/sects/denomination have nothing to tell to their Children, to educate and train them for their "none"ity (or whatever), so they focus to shift its burden on to the religions as they are used to doing it, I gather, please. Right?

Regards

You might see it that way but no doubt many others won't. Why not just teach children as to all the various beliefs that we humans tend to have with regards this issue - of there being some God, gods, spirituality, and all the rest (no such)? If parents want to and do bring their children up with one particular faith there is not a lot any can do about this, unless in a country where one religion is dominant and not so tolerant of the religion chosen. But surely schools and education in general owes more to the development of children so to grow up in an unbiased fashion. One look at history shows that divisions are not good for societies, and even a reasonable understanding of the beliefs of others (gained at school) would probably help to avoid conflict.

As has no doubt be remarked on RF many times, for some of us it is more about the rights of the child not to be indoctrinated than parental rights as to such - given that children are usually not in a position to claim any rights.

 

[Mock Turtle]

So whats your definition of atheism?

The common one, of not having a belief in the existence of God or gods, and often as to rejecting those proposed by all the major religions.

I don't know what is taught in UK schools as to this actually, but I doubt atheism is taught by itself but rather as just being one of the ways we tend to look at reality. Hence when any religious beliefs and atheism/agnosticism might be taught there would be no judgement attached to any of these, but just the way that we vary as to what we all believe. Seems a reasonable enough approach, even if not what many would like to see.