Why Did God Create Atheists?

[MikeF]

According to them, animals do not need morality and the law of the jungle is what prevails among animals. Imagine the results of such an "advanced" philosophy.

For scientists, both religious and non-religious, it is not about what behaviors animals need, rather, it is about discovering what behaviors animals exhibit. Given the wide diversity of animals, there is a wide variety of exhibited behaviors, some of which are shared by multiple species, including we human beings.

I see only good things coming from an advanced philosophy that is not bound by our inherited instinctual behavior or the cultural norms of ancient peoples, but instead takes our scientific understanding of human behavior and our understanding of evolving human culture to continually improve the philosophy's upon which we govern our group interactions.

 

[MikeF]

Yes I certainly am.



I wonder if you even understand the point I was trying to make there.



And there aren't any of those outside of the history of the western world or from before the 20th century?



The operative word here being "if".



Which isnt the same as having proven anything.
(actually just sounds like a belief).



And believers would content that there is a God. If we were going to leave it at that, we'd all be in here talking about cats.

A politician who declared themselves an atheist would have an extremely hard time running for office in the United States. Even today there is stigmatization.

I guess I and the people I know are the only charitable non-believers then.

 

[Eli G]

For scientists, both religious and non-religious, it is not about what behaviors animals need, rather, it is about discovering what behaviors animals exhibit. Given the wide diversity of animals, there is a wide variety of exhibited behaviors, some of which are shared by multiple species, including we human beings.

I see only good things coming from an advanced philosophy that is not bound by our inherited instinctual behavior or the cultural norms of ancient peoples, but instead takes our scientific understanding of human behavior and our understanding of evolving human culture to continually improve the philosophy's upon which we govern our group interactions.

There is a lot of idealism in your words... Put your feet on the ground. No group of nice atheists is ruling the world. The political rulers, the false religious leaders, the super-rich of the world, are not interested in the good of humanity, but in their own pocket and well-being. They are trying to shape the world for their own benefit.

How good is it that we have our Creator aware of the situation!!!

Rev. 11:16 And the 24 elders who were seated before God on their thrones fell upon their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

 

[Quagmire]

A politician who declared themselves an atheist would have an extremely hard time running for office in the United States. Even today there is stigmatization.

We're talking about charity and morality. Do you really want to bring up politicians?

I guess I and the people I know are the only charitable non-believers then.

Why should we give you the benefit of a doubt?

 

[Trailblazer]

Inaccurate, in my view. Left alone, without a single mention of "God" from the moment of birth until adulthood, I do not think anyone would hit upon the notion of the Abrahamic deity.

I fully agree, but that is not what I said. I said "God did not create believers, believers chose to believe in God", but just because they chose to believe in God that doesn't mean they chose to believe in the Abrahamic God.

Also, no person lives in complete social isolation so they will eventually hear about God, if not in childhood, sometime in adulthood. But that does not necessarily mean they will hear about the Abrahamic God. Nobody ever believes me when I say this, but I came to believe in God when I was 17 years old, when I became a Baha'i, but I never read one page of the Bible until I was 60 years old. I only read parts of the Bible after I started posting on forums in 2013, because before that I had no reason to read it.

 

[MikeF]

We're talking about charity and morality. Do you really want to bring up politicians?

Should the subject not apply to them as well?

Why should we give you the benefit of a doubt?

Just a guy on the internet, and we should all be skeptical of any post.

If you have only had experience with atheists who were uncharitable and uncompassionate, then there is probably not much I could say that would change your mind on the subject. My experience informs me that both religious and non-religious people are at different times charitable and non-charitable. Some in both groups are more often charitable than not, and others less so.

 

[Eli G]

All people are born within a family framework. It is included in human nature the sense of belonging and the care of a "superior" person (such as an adult or the father or mother of the baby). When Jehovah created the first man, he did not leave him lying in a jungle but communicated with him as a good father. Thus every adult human being can discern in nature all that the Creator provided for his enjoyment and feel His affection and interest in his human creation.

When I smell a flower, eat a mango or see a sunset, I see the love of my heavenly Father. Many people instill it without even being religious, like my parents when they were young and looked at the stars.

 

[Trailblazer]

How good is it that we have our Creator aware of the situation!!!

I agree that God is aware of the situation but what good does it do that God is aware?
God does not do anything, but at least some good atheists are trying to do something to change the world and make it a better place, and not just for themselves. Some believers could learn from them.

 

[MikeF]

There is a lot of idealism in your words... Put your feet on the ground. No group of nice atheists is ruling the world. The political rulers, the false religious leaders, the super-rich of the world, are not interested in the good of humanity, but in their own pocket and well-being. They are trying to shape the world for their own benefit.

How good is it that we have our Creator aware of the situation!!!

Rev. 11:16 And the 24 elders who were seated before God on their thrones fell upon their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

Nice atheist, human secularists, could never get elected to political office because of the prejudice of religious folks. That means you can blame the mishandling of the world on religious political leaders, not atheists.

 

[Eli G]

I agree that God is aware of the situation but what good does it do that God is aware?
God does not do anything, but at least some good atheists are trying to do something to change the world and make it a better place, and not just for themselves. Some believers could learn from them.

If you were the heavenly Father of human beings and had the power to change things on earth, wouldn't you? He has promised that he will.

Is. 65:21 They will build houses and live in them,
And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage.
22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit,
Nor will they plant for others to eat.
For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree,
And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.
23 They will not toil for nothing,
Nor will they bear children for distress,
Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah,
And their descendants with them.
24 Even before they call out, I will answer;
While they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
The lion will eat straw just like the bull,
And the serpent’s food will be dust.
They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” says Jehovah.

 

[Quagmire]

Should the subject not apply to them as well?

Just saying, If we're talking about charity and morality I think you could have come up with a better example.

Just a guy on the internet, and we should all be skeptical of any post.

If you have only had experience with atheists who were uncharitable and uncompassionate, then there is probably not much I could say that would change your mind on the subject.
My experience informs me that both religious and non-religious people are at different times charitable and non-charitable. Some in both groups are more often charitable than not, and others less so.

So all you have is anecdotal evidence. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Eli G]

Nice atheist, human secularists, could never get elected to political office because of the prejudice of religious folks. That means you can blame the mishandling of the world on religious political leaders, not atheists.

Really? Aren't those who swarn around these forums and fill believers with insults, atheists in their ideological struggle? I can already imagine if they were in the government in the way that you say they cannot do... because in the country where I am from, like so many others, there they are, showing their claws just as they are.

 

[MikeF]

Just saying, If we're talking about charity and morality I think you could have come up with a better example.



So all you have is anecdotal evidence. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I agree that God is aware of the situation but what good does it do that God is aware?
God does not do anything, but at least some good atheists are trying to do something to change the world and make it a better place, and not just for themselves. Some believers could learn from them.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

[MikeF]

Really? Aren't those who swarn around these forums and fill believers with insults, atheists in their ideological struggle? I can already imagine if they were in the government in the way that you say they cannot do... because in the country where I am from, like so many others, there they are, showing their claws just as they are.

I see uncharitable behavior on all sides exhibited on this forum. From both those describing themselves as atheist as well as those having religious beliefs.

 

[Eli G]

I see uncharitable behavior on all sides exhibited on this forum. From both those describing themselves as atheist as well as those having religious beliefs.

That is truth, but consider that there is false religion also. Check before I mentioned those too: false religious leaders. Do you think God doesn't know that situation too? Look what Jesus said:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

No one can cheat God. When humanity is judged, everything will come to light.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you were the heavenly Father of human beings and had the power to change things on earth, wouldn't you? He has promised that he will.

Who is "they"? The verses do not say God will be doing anything.
I do not believe that God is going to be doing the work of changing this world, I believe humans will do the work, with the assistance of God.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7

all the peoples of the world includes atheists.
all men includes atheists.

 

[MikeF]

IMO

That is truth, but consider that there is false religion also. Check before I mentioned those too: false religious leaders. Do you think God doesn't know that situation too? Look what Jesus said:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

No one can cheat God. When humanity is judged, everything will come to light.

From my perspective, all religions involving artificial constructs of reality, be it gods or other entities etc, would be false. As a result, we must answer to each other for how we conduct ourselves.

 

[Eli G]

Who is "they"? The verses do not say God will be doing anything.
I do not believe that God is going to be doing the work of changing this world, I believe humans will do the work, with the assistance of God.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6- 7

all the peoples of the world includes atheists.
all men includes atheists.

That's not unlike what some doting, idealistic atheists think could happen. Is it realistic to think that godless humans can bring mankind to the conditions that Jehovah promises in the Scriptures? What have world conditions shown over the years?

 

[Eli G]

IMO
From my perspective, all religions involving artificial constructs of reality, be it gods or other entities etc, would be false. As a result, we must answer to each other for how we conduct ourselves.

"artificial constructs of reality" is an artificial construct of reality.

Jews, the former people of Jehovah, still exist;
Jesus was resurrected and is still preached, and
Jehovah is still worshipped around the whole planet.
Biblical prophecies continue to be fulfilled each day more than the day before.