Why Did God Create Atheists?

[Trailblazer]

That's not unlike what some doting, idealistic atheists think could happen. Is it realistic to think that godless humans can bring mankind to the conditions that Jehovah promises in the Scriptures? What have world conditions shown over the years?

No, it is not unlike what some idealistic atheists think could happen. All humans working together can bring this about if they have the same ideals.

Is it realistic to think that God will bring mankind to the conditions that Jehovah promises in the Scriptures? What have world conditions shown over the years?

 

[MikeF]

IMO

"artificial constructs of reality" is an artificial construct of reality.

Jews, the former people of Jehovah, still exist;
Jesus was resurrected and is still preached, and
Jehovah is still worshipped around the whole planet.
Biblical prophecies continue to be fulfilled each day more than the day before.

Certainly, there are people who identify as Jewish, either culturally or culturally and religiously.
The rest of your list are beliefs.

Do you think people can believe things that are not true or that do not exist?

 

[Eli G]

No, it is not unlike what some idealistic atheists think could happen. All humans working together can bring this about if they have the same ideals.

Thanks for confirming what I just said.

Is it realistic to think that God will bring mankind to the conditions that Jehovah promises in the Scriptures? What have world conditions shown over the years?

Excellent question.

It has been shown that Jehovah's Witnesses as an international community have achieved what no godless (or other religious) international community has been able to achieve, because our Governing Body has taken it upon itself to educate us under God's high principles recorded in His written Word.

Consider this: did you know that no web page has been translated into the number of languages that our official website www.jw.org has been translated into, even though we have no affiliation or receive donations from governments, nor do we have adds to support our bills? It is because the institutions of the world do not invest money if it implies a great loss, so they are not going to start translating in a language that is used by less than 1000 people... And why do you think we do it?

 

[Eli G]

IMO



Certainly, there are people who identify as Jewish, either culturally or culturally and religiously.
The rest of your list are beliefs.

Do you think people can believe things that are not true or that do not exist?

You do . You believe in a wonderful future that men will achieve by themselves.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You do . You believe in a wonderful future that men will achieve by themselves.

Are you sure that @MikeF believes that, or is it rather that he hopes for it, and (like me) tries to help people find ways to get there?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

All people are born within a family framework. It is included in human nature the sense of belonging and the care of a "superior" person (such as an adult or the father or mother of the baby). When Jehovah created the first man, he did not leave him lying in a jungle but communicated with him as a good father. Thus every adult human being can discern in nature all that the Creator provided for his enjoyment and feel His affection and interest in his human creation.

When I smell a flower, eat a mango or see a sunset, I see the love of my heavenly Father. Many people instill it without even being religious, like my parents when they were young and looked at the stars.

When I smell a flower, eat a mango or see a sunset, I don't think of God at all because I've learned that I don't need him in my life to appreciate the beauty of nature around me. I don't believe that I need God to feel peace, joy, and happiness either because I never felt these things during all the years I was a Christian or during the years beforehand when I believed in him while I was growing up.

I hope you realize that not everyone who believes in God and is a Christian has had the same positive experiences with God as you have. As an ex-Christian, I understand your sincere belief because I was a devout Christian for 30 years, and I genuinely believed in God before that. But I no longer think of God as loving and merciful, and I never considered him to be my heavenly father. Based on my experiences in life and the fact that I've read the Old Testament, the word "love" isn't even included in my description of God.

I know that you and other devout believers will strongly object to my opinion of him, but for the 30 years I was a devout Christian, it was entirely negative, and I never want to be a Christian again. Being a Christian had a very negative impact on my life. It was very detrimental to my mental, emotional, and physical health. It wasn't until after I disavowed my belief and faith in God that I began to feel peace, joy, and happiness in life. Renouncing my faith was the best decision I've ever made. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm better off without God in my life. I finally accepted that I don't need God in my life to feel peace and be happy or to be a good person.

 

[MikeF]

IMO

You do . You believe in a wonderful future that men will achieve by themselves.

There ya go. If we can believe in things that are not true or do not exist, then we require some mechanism with which we can attempt to verify and corroborate our beliefs.

As to believing in a wonderful future, it would be more accurate to say it is my hope that humanity will work to achieve a better future.

Since there are no entities, then we have been doing all this by ourselves the whole time.

...

In my view.

 

[Eli G]

Are you sure that @MikeF believes that, or is it rather that he hopes for it, and (like me) tries to help people find ways to get there?

I'm not sure if one thing doesn't imply the other... can you tell?

It's like a post I read somewhere in this forum: is it possible to have hope in something you don't have faith in?

 

[Eli G]

IMO



There ya go. If we can believe in things that are not true or do not exist, then we require some mechanism with which we can attempt to verify and corroborate our beliefs.

As to believing in a wonderful future, it would be more accurate to say it is my hope that humanity will work to achieve a better future.

Since there are no entities, then we have been doing all this by ourselves the whole time.

...

In my view.

And what makes you think that a religious person is not capable of "rationalizing" what he believes? Have you ever taken a Bible study course with a Jehovah's Witness? (It's free and without commitments).

 

[MikeF]

IMO

And what makes you think that a religious person is not capable of "rationalizing" what he believes? Have you ever taken a Bible study course with a Jehovah's Witness? (It's free and without commitments).

Why would you necessarily recommend I take a bible study course with a Jehovah's Witness? Why not recommend I go to my local Mosque and take a study course of the Quran? I could also study with my local LDS church. I do not know of any Hindu or Shinto congregations in my area, but should I ignore them simply on those grounds?

As to rationalizing religious beliefs, I believe that is what all religious people do. To claim something as existent, it would require empirical evidence to support it. Rationalizations are not the same thing as physical evidence.

...

Of course, this is my take on things.

 

[Wildswanderer]

God doesn't create atheists. He created people with potential to believe what they decide to believe.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Compassion is inherent.

Obviously not for everyone.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I find some of the responses by faith believers in this thread to be very interesting -- but of course, being perfectly honest, I must admit that I've always found the notion that it takes belief in God to be a "good person." Let me see if I can explain why.

Let's start with the case of slavery. Slavery is officially outlawed all over the world today (although there are still actually millions in bondage). But slavery was not abolished in Canada until the "Act Against Slavery" in 1793 (one of the earliest in the world), or the "Slavery Abolition Act" in the British Empire in 1833. In the U.S., states broke into civil war in 1861 partly in order to retain the institution of slavery, and Lincoln's "Emancipation Proclamation" (an executive order, subject to overturning in an ensuing administration) came only in 1865.

Now, I'm told that Christianity has been around since the early 2nd century CE. But for some reason, neither God, nor those who claimed to speak for God, could understand what we now know -- that slavery is a very bad thing -- for literally centuries. How is it possible -- if goodness requires God -- that this particular goodness took so bloody long?

Can it be possible (which is what I think) that God had -- in very real fact -- quite literally nothing to do with it. Doesn't it appear as if this is just we humans figuring out for ourselves that, because we would really hate it if somebody captured us and sold us to somebody else in perpetual slavery, that it must therefore be wrong to do it to anybody else?

It's similar with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, by the UN in 1946, which basically resulted in most nations (not the U.S., alone in the Christian world) from banning capital punishment.

I maintain, therefore, what I always have -- that we do good when and because we want to, not because God wants us to, and when we want something badly enough, not even belief in God will forever stop us from doing whatever necessary to get it.

 

[Eli G]

IMO

Why would you necessarily recommend I take a bible study course with a Jehovah's Witness? Why not recommend I go to my local Mosque and take a study course of the Quran? I could also study with my local LDS church. I do not know of any Hindu or Shinto congregations in my area, but should I ignore them simply on those grounds?

As to rationalizing religious beliefs, I believe that is what all religious people do. To claim something as existent, it would require empirical evidence to support it. Rationalizations are not the same thing as physical evidence.

...

Of course, this is my take on things.

Because it's the best I can do for you to realize that Jehovah's Witnesses, which is what I am, are not just gullible people who can't explain their beliefs.

For example, if you go to our official site and click "Learn More" about the corruption of governments (this week's topic), you will find the reasons why trusting human governments instead of hoping in the kingdom that the Creator will bring is not such a smart move as you think. Virtually no other religion will teach you these biblical truths so clearly. If you decide to read that topic https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/end-government-corruption-bible/, then you can tell me what you thought of the information. Coincidentally that cover topic is the same topic that is being dealt with in this thread right now... I'm not just recommending it for you just like "preaching".

Now I have to disconnect. Have a nice day.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm not sure if one thing doesn't imply the other... can you tell?

It's like a post I read somewhere in this forum: is it possible to have hope in something you don't have faith in?

Yes, hope is always possible. It's just hope without faith simply means you have to work harder to see your hopes realized. With faith, hope isn't even necessary -- which is odd, since with faith, things don't always turn out the way your faith promised it would.

 

[Trailblazer]

It has been shown that Jehovah's Witnesses as an international community have achieved what no godless (or other religious) international community has been able to achieve, because our Governing Body has taken it upon itself to educate us under God's high principles recorded in His written Word.

It has been shown that the Baha'is as an international community has been able to achieve what no other religious community has been able to achieve, a community that has been educated us under God's high principles recorded in His written Word.

The Baháʼí Faith - Home

 

[Eli G]

It has been shown that the Baha'is as an international community has been able to achieve what no other religious community has been able to achieve, a community that has been educated us under God's high principles recorded in His written Word.

The Baháʼí Faith - Home

Yeah, well, the Baha'is are not going to take over the world... The Jews already have those plans before you do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, well, the Baha'is are not going to take over the world... The Jews already have those plans before you do.

That sounds more than a bit antisemitic. Do you have evidence for this claim? They tend to keep to themselves as far as religion goes.

 

[Eli G]

Are you accusing me of something?

... I'm not here in this forum to get into this kind of shenanigans of some people who try to change the subject and start throwing insults at me because they don't like my comments.

Take a break and re-read and re-think my comment, because I think you're going more than a mile off the mark.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yeah, well, the Baha'is are not going to take over the world... The Jews already have those plans before you do.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "The Jews already have those plans before you do."