Why did Jesus need to die?

[Storm]

The holy spirit. To remember christ in terms of communion is to let the mind that was in christ jesus be in you also. As an incarnate being the individual mind seems to be separate from all other minds. The mind that is in christ jesus cannot transcend space and time in a body that is part of time and bound by space.

So, why does one have to leave to make room for the other? Doesn't that fly in the face of omnipresence?

 

[PolyHedral]

What reason do we have to believe that the mind is a separate component of the body? After all, damage to the body can affect the mind.

 

[Midnight Pete]

OK, but what does it mean? Who's "the comforter?" I would have thought that was Christ!

Christ is sometimes called the comforter.

 

[Storm]

Christ is sometimes called the comforter.

That's what I thought.....

 

[thedope]

So, why does one have to leave to make room for the other? Doesn't that fly in the face of omnipresence?

It is the psychological evidence. We cannot conceive the existence of those who have died because the evidence of the body is so convincing. The emotional pain of separation is caused by the active denial of existence based on the evidence of the dead body. The eternal is unseen. The universe functions before and after the advent of the biological us.

 

[Storm]

It is the psychological evidence. We cannot conceive the existence of those who have died because the evidence of the body is so convincing. The emotional pain of separation is caused by the active denial of existence based on the evidence of the dead body. The eternal is unseen. The universe functions before and after the advent of the biological us.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I don't know about you, but I'm completely capable of conceiving of the dead.

 

[love]

It doesn't matter if you are Mother Teresa or Attilla the Hun, death and the grave await you. Your flesh will rot and return to the earth and the elements it is made of. Flesh is not the essence of man but rather a coruptable vessel to carry us through this short period we call life. The real essence of man is their spirit. Jesus Christ walked among us in incoruptable flesh and passed through death. Death had no hold on Him. Not even His flesh was left behind. He conquered death for all mankind and opened a portal to God. Don't ask me who will be invited to enter the portal because thank God it is not for me to judge. For all I know and care we will all be allowed to pass.
But trust me, if you live long enough you will surely die.:nightcraw:

 

[thedope]

What reason do we have to believe that the mind is a separate component of the body? After all, damage to the body can affect the mind.

I personally have reason by reason of evidence of the senses. I have twice been in close physical contact with persons at the moment of death. Both times I experienced a physical sensation that I would liken to the faintest yet profoundly detectable "breeze", lifting out and actually passing through my own substance. Further there has been independent recognition of some mutually recognizable subtle residue existing of those who have passed. Whether that is evidence of a psychic or hysterical construction between living individuals or not, I cannot definitively say. We do know that bodies attract. How much of life is attraction to body as opposed to generated by body? Gravity, intent, remains somewhat of a mystery.

 

[thedope]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I don't know about you, but I'm completely capable of conceiving of the dead.

You imagine things. If you had Jesus in body you would see him as outside of you. The mind that is in him would not be constituted in you. Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood. As often as you do this remember me. To remember is to become a member, again.

 

[Storm]

Um......... ok.

 

[Blackdog22]

I don't think you understood that little story of mine.

His agony and his death on the cross were necessary to redirect the full wrath of God away from the whole of mankind who deserve to be thrown into hell for our sins.

So when you say that God got angry and had to watch someone be murdered to redirect his anger, you don't actually mean that? So if what you say isn't what you say then how can I trust anything you say at all?

 

[Blackdog22]

It doesn't matter if you are Mother Teresa or Attilla the Hun, death and the grave await you. Your flesh will rot and return to the earth and the elements it is made of. Flesh is not the essence of man but rather a coruptable vessel to carry us through this short period we call life. The real essence of man is their spirit. Jesus Christ walked among us in incoruptable flesh and passed through death. Death had no hold on Him. Not even His flesh was left behind. He conquered death for all mankind and opened a portal to God. Don't ask me who will be invited to enter the portal because thank God it is not for me to judge. For all I know and care we will all be allowed to pass.
But trust me, if you live long enough you will surely die.:nightcraw:

Right Jesus conquered sin and relieved us of death. So why exactly do you think we die still? Or do you think Jesus died for an invisible death that means nothing whatsoever? By the same token I could say my uncle died so we could eat ice cream forever, but we had to wait until we died to get the icecream.... Not only would I consider my uncle insane, I would be insulted by him for making up a story that can only be revealed upon dying, that is to say an entire lifetime. That doesn't really help me much does it? If I only get the ice cream if I die? Cults are founded on such ideas.

 

[Blackdog22]

You imagine things. If you had Jesus in body you would see him as outside of you. The mind that is in him would not be constituted in you. Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood. As often as you do this remember me. To remember is to become a member, again.

So you want us to dig us Jesus' body and eat him? If that isn't what you mean could you stop speaking in, obviously taught, riddles that are quite radical to normal people?

 

[thedope]

So you want us to dig us Jesus' body and eat him? If that isn't what you mean could you stop speaking in, obviously taught, riddles that are quite radical to normal people?

Normal people?

I'm referring to allegory and metaphor found in the story of the last supper. Our minds are naturally abstract. Jesus used the example bread is my body, as often as you do anything in this world it is for the body. Our work and play is for the maintenance of the body. Jesus used the example of the wine as blood from the cup. The cup representing the chalice of the heart. As often as we have a thirsty passion we remember him.

In practice the above prescription is identical in content if not form in saying love god with all you heart and mind and soul and your brother as yourself.

 

[Midnight Pete]

So when you say that God got angry and had to watch someone be murdered to redirect his anger, you don't actually mean that? So if what you say isn't what you say then how can I trust anything you say at all?

I think you've already made up your mind to distrust me. So what can I say?

 

[love]

Right Jesus conquered sin and relieved us of death. So why exactly do you think we die still? Or do you think Jesus died for an invisible death that means nothing whatsoever? By the same token I could say my uncle died so we could eat ice cream forever, but we had to wait until we died to get the icecream.... Not only would I consider my uncle insane, I would be insulted by him for making up a story that can only be revealed upon dying, that is to say an entire lifetime. That doesn't really help me much does it? If I only get the ice cream if I die? Cults are founded on such ideas.

What kind of argument is that? I can go down the street and get all the ice cream I want today. You need another token.
You don't believe and that is your free will.
As to why we still die, Christ said His Kingdom was not of this world, so the physical nature of our existence still apply until He returns for His flock and clothes us in an incoruptable vessel.
Your next question could possibly be, why go to the trouble of even having this life? Sorry, but I do not have the answer to that now, but I fully expect to when all things are revealed.

 

[Blackdog22]

What kind of argument is that? I can go down the street and get all the ice cream I want today. You need another token.
You don't believe and that is your free will.
As to why we still die, Christ said His Kingdom was not of this world, so the physical nature of our existence still apply until He returns for His flock and clothes us in an incoruptable vessel.
Your next question could possibly be, why go to the trouble of even having this life? Sorry, but I do not have the answer to that now, but I fully expect to when all things are revealed.

You kinda missed the point. I could of used Money or Virgins or anything that someone may not have. The point is saying "I have something AMAZING," but only after you die 60 years from now. Is pretty lame, and doesn't help anything. In the meantime children are dying from starvation because God didn't balance out the resources on the earth fairly...

Also, yeah Gods kingdom isn't of this world, but Jesus died for the sins of the Earth did he not? If he didn't die for our current sins then we wouldn't be able to get into Heaven right? So when it says in the Old Testament that the effects of sin caused:

• Man to become dust again and die.
• Women to have pain in child birth
• Snakes to eat dust forever
• Man would have to work for his necessities.

I can't help but scratch my head and go. Hmmmm, seems like Jesus most definitely did not die for our sins according to the very Bible he is depicted in. Do you ever add up the pieces and never realize this makes no sense?