Why did the Israel's neighbors attack it in May 1948?

[Kapyong]

Gday icehorse and all,

No, I have for many days been trying to address them one at a time, and you have not responded to my requests for you to answer simple questions pertinent to your claims.

In fact - you have been ignoring everything I say for many days.

And note, the once again, post 191 is another gish gallop.

No it isn't. As I explained up thread.
It's just another excuse to avoid the issue.

Kapyong, I sense we're not going to make any progress here. You want us to accept your claims, and many of us simply do not.

Your denying the facts of history has stopped this discussion dead.

I DID address your comments about the British mandate and the UN plan.
Why didn't you answer ?

Why won't you tell us your point ?


Kapyong

 

[Kapyong]

Gday Flankerl,

Funny how you mention that. Just read about it.
http://www.grimmstories.com/language.php?grimm=110&l=en&r=de

You're back

Will you ever be addressing anything I have brought up ?

Will you ever answer the questions I have raised ?


Kapyong

 

[icehorse]

Your denying the facts of history has stopped this discussion dead.

In a debate, you don't get to ask me to defend claims that you came up with. If you make claims, I can attack them, and if I make claims you can attack them. That's it. I haven't denied anything, I simply haven't yet pushed back on all of your claims. And I might never push back on all of them. But YOU chose to create a list of claims. As the claim creator you can either exit the debate, or you can defend your claims. My questions concerning the two mandates are relevant to your claim that Israelis stole land.

So I will ask again:

After WW I, European victors (Britian and others), carved up the middle east and created a whole bunch of new countries (e.g. Jordan, Iraq and so on).

In your opinion, was ALL of this carving up of land wrong, or was only some of it in error?

 

[metis]

It's history.

But it appears that some people either don't know their history, or don't WANT to know.

The reality is that you're oblivious to the history of that region in one major respect-- the boundaries have throughout the M.E. entire history been extremely fluid for a variety of reasons. The reality, whether you or I like it or not, is that control over the region or areas of the region was pretty much in the hands of whom could take it and hold onto it. Boundary agreements often lasted less than it took for the ink to dry.

Here's reality: Israel exists, and attempts to destroy it will get a reaction from Israel. Hamas has made it clear, including through their website, that they will never accept Israel-- period. They have also called for the killing of Israeli civilians, and not just in Israel. So, do you think Israel should just roll over and play dead?

BTW, did you also condemn Hamas for killing over 100 Palestinians last year, or is that "different"?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday icehorse and all,

In a debate, you don't get to ask me to defend claims that you came up with. If you make claims, I can attack them, and if I make claims you can attack them. That's it. I haven't denied anything, I simply haven't yet pushed back on all of your claims. And I might never push back on all of them. But YOU chose to create a list of claims. As the claim creator you can either exit the debate, or you can defend your claims. My questions concerning the two mandates are relevant to your claim that Israelis stole land.

Really ?
Why are they relevant ?
Why won't you tell us why you believe they are relevant ?
I already addressed the ONE Mandate and the UN Plan.
You aren't even reading my posts anymore, are you ?
Let's try an experiment -
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


History records that the Zionists fought for the land, beat the Arab defenders, and re-named the land Israel.
They stole the land by force from the locals.
They did not innocently 'gain' the land in a 'defensive war' !

The Zionists initiated an aggressive war of capture and ethnic cleansing of 700,000 people.
History, not claims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

So I will ask again:
After WW I, European victors (Britian and others), carved up the middle east and created a whole bunch of new countries (e.g. Jordan, Iraq and so on).
In your opinion, was ALL of this carving up of land wrong, or was only some of it in error?

Excuse #4 - Distraction !

THIS thread is about why the Arabs attacked Israel in 1948.
If you want to discuss something else after WW1, please start another thread.


Kapyong

 

[Kapyong]

Gday metis and all,

Here's reality: Israel exists, and attempts to destroy it will get a reaction from Israel.

Here's history: Palestine EXISTED too.
Israel exists because the Zionists stole Palestine by force and re-named it Israel.
Israel IS destroying Palestine - and Hamas is reacting of course.

Hamas has made it clear, including through their website, that they will never accept Israel-- period. They have also called for the killing of Israeli civilians, and not just in Israel. So, do you think Israel should just roll over and play dead?

'Called for' ?
While Israel is ACTUALLY killing Palestinians civilians - e.g over a THOUSAND last time they "mowed the grass" in Gaza.
Killing Palestinian Freedom Fighters defending their land of Palestine from the invader Israel.
So, you think the Palestinians should just roll over and play dead and let Israel totally erase Palestine ?

Essentially you are BLAMING the VICTIM !

Zionists stole the land by force with ethnic cleansing of 700,000 local Palestinians.
Hamas wants it back in the hands of the original Palestinian owners.
But incredibly - now Israel justifies invading and erasing Palestine and massacring Palestinians, even civilians, because Hamas DARES to fight back against the invader !

War is Peace !
Self-Defence (theirs) is Terrorism !
Invasion (ours) is Self-Defence !

BTW, did you also condemn Hamas for killing over 100 Palestinians last year, or is that "different"?

I most certainly DO condemn such killings. Of course.
I condemn ALL killings and atrocities.

Which is in sharp contrast to YOURs and the pro-Israelis repeated failure to condemn very many Israeli atrocities.

I answered your question, will you and the other pro-Israeli ever address the issue of Medic Sgt Azaria executing wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?

Do YOU agree with the 80% of Israelis that support Azaria for "just doing his job" ?
Do YOU agree that the job an Israeli MEDIC is to execute helpless Palestinians ?

This is just another form of Excuse #2 - But Hamas !
Never discuss Israeli atrocities, always deflect to But Hamas !

What about the massacre of over a THOUSAND civilians in Gaza 2014 ?
10,000 homes destroyed, 300 children left disabled.
Illegal White Phosphorous killing many.
In 'just self-defence' for THREE Israelis killed !

Apparently that was all Hamas' fault - for daring to strike back at the Invader Israel.

Ignorance is Strength !
Ethnic Cleansing is Democracy !
Palestinians are Terrorists !


Kapyong

 

[Flankerl]

Gday Flankerl,



You're back

Will you ever be addressing anything I have brought up ?

Will you ever answer the questions I have raised ?


Kapyong

You've already been answered. Still rather boring.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday metis and all,

The reality is that you're oblivious to the history of that region in one major respect-- the boundaries have throughout the M.E. entire history been extremely fluid for a variety of reasons. The reality, whether you or I like it or not, is that control over the region or areas of the region was pretty much in the hands of whom could take it and hold onto it. Boundary agreements often lasted less than it took for the ink to dry.

Here's reality: Israel exists, and attempts to destroy it will get a reaction from Israel. Hamas has made it clear, including through their website, that they will never accept Israel-- period. They have also called for the killing of Israeli civilians, and not just in Israel. So, do you think Israel should just roll over and play dead?

BTW, did you also condemn Hamas for killing over 100 Palestinians last year, or is that "different"?

In other words -

It's OK for the Zionists to invade and capture the land and rename it 'Israel', then slowly erase and gobble up Palestine almost entirely now.

But it's NOT OK for Hamas to fight to get their OWN land of Palestine back from the invaders ?


What a bizarre and barbaric and in-humane argument.

History will be very harsh on Israel for Holocaust 2.0


Kapyong

 

[icehorse]

@Kapyong When you're ready to have a logical debate, let me know. So far, you have not demonstrated a willingness to do that in this thread.

cheers

 

[YmirGF]

@Kapyong When you're ready to have a logical debate, let me know. So far, you have not demonstrated a willingness to do that in this thread.

cheers

 

[metis]

Gday metis and all,




Here's history: Palestine EXISTED too.
Israel exists because the Zionists stole Palestine by force and re-named it Israel.
Israel IS destroying Palestine - and Hamas is reacting of course.



'Called for' ?
While Israel is ACTUALLY killing Palestinians civilians - e.g over a THOUSAND last time they "mowed the grass" in Gaza.
Killing Palestinian Freedom Fighters defending their land of Palestine from the invader Israel.
So, you think the Palestinians should just roll over and play dead and let Israel totally erase Palestine ?

Essentially you are BLAMING the VICTIM !

Zionists stole the land by force with ethnic cleansing of 700,000 local Palestinians.
Hamas wants it back in the hands of the original Palestinian owners.
But incredibly - now Israel justifies invading and erasing Palestine and massacring Palestinians, even civilians, because Hamas DARES to fight back against the invader !

War is Peace !
Self-Defence (theirs) is Terrorism !
Invasion (ours) is Self-Defence !




I most certainly DO condemn such killings. Of course.
I condemn ALL killings and atrocities.

Which is in sharp contrast to YOURs and the pro-Israelis repeated failure to condemn very many Israeli atrocities.

I answered your question, will you and the other pro-Israeli ever address the issue of Medic Sgt Azaria executing wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?

Do YOU agree with the 80% of Israelis that support Azaria for "just doing his job" ?
Do YOU agree that the job an Israeli MEDIC is to execute helpless Palestinians ?

This is just another form of Excuse #2 - But Hamas !
Never discuss Israeli atrocities, always deflect to But Hamas !

What about the massacre of over a THOUSAND civilians in Gaza 2014 ?
10,000 homes destroyed, 300 children left disabled.
Illegal White Phosphorous killing many.
In 'just self-defence' for THREE Israelis killed !

Apparently that was all Hamas' fault - for daring to strike back at the Invader Israel.

Ignorance is Strength !
Ethnic Cleansing is Democracy !
Palestinians are Terrorists !


Kapyong

You throw a lot of words out as if the more sentences you post the more valid your position. Only if reality was that simple. If you can't stick directly to the subject in your posts without attaching everything under the sun to one, then maybe you're just throwing out rants, such as you just did with the above.

Your assumptions are actually quite naive when it comes to dealing with the history and the culture of the region. So, why don't you go back to what I wrote and actually try and stick to the subject, and then maybe you'll post something of value?

BTW, stereotyping where I'm coming from is not only wrong, it highly dishonest. I have provided you with almost no information where I'm coming from on this, but that certainly didn't stop you from jumping to an absurd position that is actually not true. See, that's what happens when all one does is rant without thinking.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday all,
So, let's summarise :

A brief history of Palestine -

• Palestine was known by name as early as the 5th century BC in Herodotus, and is found on Ptolemy's map from the time of the Gospels.
• By the 1800s it had firmly established borders and a population of about 3/4 million (but no central govt.)
• During the late 1800s the Zionists started buying up land in Palestine.
• By 1917 it was clear the Zionists wanted the land of Palestine (Britain betrayed the Arabs and promised it to the Zionists.)
• The horror of WW2 brought things to a head concerning a home-land for the Jews.
• The Zionists started planning the capture of Palestine as early as 1945.
• The Zionists had purchased about 8% of Palestinian land by 1947.
• In 1947 the UN announced a PLAN to give much of Palestine to the Zionists.
• The Palestinians and Arabs rejected the plan to give away their best land.
• The Zionists secretly shipped arms into Palestine.
• Civil war broke out, there were battles and atrocities.
• The Zionists started taking Palestinian land by force as early as December 1947.
• Everyone could see a war over the land of Palestine was coming.
• On 14th May 1948 the Zionists declared they owned the land by fiat.
• On 15th May the Arabs declared they would fight to defend Palestine.
• They battled for about 10 months over the land of Palestine.
• About 700,000 local Palestinians were forced from their homes.
• Israel won, the Arabs lost - and the land was re-named 'Israel'.
• The Palestinians still want their land back, and try to fight back.
• Israel continues to gobble up Palestine - only about 12% remains any more.

I am frankly astonished, and concerned, that so many people do not know their history.


Kapyong

 

[Kapyong]

Tragically,
those facts of history are being erased by the myths of Israeli propaganda :


Myth : The Arabs attacked innocent Israel who only defended themselves.

Fact : The Zionists INVADED Palestine, the Arabs tried to defend it but lost.


Myth : Israel gained the territory in a defensive war. (Really? How?)

Fact : The Zionists invaded and captured the land by force and ethnic cleansing.


Myth : Israeli violence is justified because Hamas wants to annihilate Israel.

Fact : Israel is ACTUALLY annihilating Palestine, and Hamas wants them gone.


Myth : The Palestinians abandoned their homes willingly (giving them up to anybody who came along?)

Fact : Civilians left a war zone in fear, intending to come back after the successful battle.


Myth : There was no such thing as 'Palestine', so it was OK for the Zionists to take the land.

Fact : Palestine had borders, history, homes and towns and roads and orchards - and almost a million PEOPLE !


Kapyong

 

[Lyndon]

. I have provided you with almost no information where I'm coming from on this,

You can say that again!!

 

[Gharib]

Not only have the pro-Israel, pro-terrorism gang not refuted any arguments that have been posted by either @Kapyong, @Lyndon or myself, but they are yet to post any argument of their own that supports their backing of Nazi Israel and the Palestinian genocide.

Anyone?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday all,

@Kapyong When you're ready to have a logical debate, let me know. So far, you have not demonstrated a willingness to do that in this thread.
cheers

See ?
My experiment did indeed show that icehorse is literally not even reading my posts any more.

Instead he plays the silly game of repeatatively :

• ignoring everything I say
• accusing me of ignoring him

Then when I give up in boredom and frustration, he declares victory - claiming I couldn't answer his questions.
Childish.


Kapyong

 

[LuisDantas]

So, has anyone actually addressed the question in the OP yet?

Last I checked this thread, people were giving me a deluge of unsubstantiated accusations against Israel.

Did that somehow change?

 

[Gharib]

So, has anyone actually addressed the question in the OP yet?

Last I checked this thread, people were giving me a deluge of unsubstantiated accusations against Israel.

Did that somehow change?

I posted a link and a video to Benjamin Freedman's speech which. I think that answers your question why the Arabs attacked Israel. And @Kapyong has already answered this like a thousand times by now. Why do you keep ignoring us?

 

[LuisDantas]

I have ignored Kapýong's answers because they make a point of avoiding the answers I seek while brandishing pointless, unsupported accusations. My time and attention are limited in scope and I have to make decisions. Simple as that.

May you please give me the post number of where you give your take on the matter?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday metis and all

You throw a lot of words out as if the more sentences you post the more valid your position. Only if reality was that simple. If you can't stick directly to the subject in your posts without attaching everything under the sun to one, then maybe you're just throwing out rants, such as you just did with the above.

Why is it that no-one will discuss the execution of al-Sharif by Medic Azaria with a shot to the head ?
While endlessly bringing up Excuse #2 - But Hamas !
Why can't you condemn that execution, metis ?
No matter how many times I ask ?
Do you believe Jewish lives are worth more than Palestinian lives ?

Your assumptions are actually quite naive when it comes to dealing with the history and the culture of the region. So, why don't you go back to what I wrote and actually try and stick to the subject, and then maybe you'll post something of value?

I have posted the facts of history which are directly ON SUBJECT.
I have responded in detail to all the claims made.
But neither you, nor anyone else, will address my arguments.
Instead I get endless abuses and excuses and games and nonsense.

BTW, stereotyping where I'm coming from is not only wrong, it highly dishonest.

I did no such thing.
I characterised you as pro-Israeli - based on your posts, which are clearly pro-Israeli.
You just bring more abuse and excuse to avoid dealing with the evidence.

Here are the FACTS of HISTORY -

• Palestine was known by name as early as the 5th century BC in Herodotus, and is found on Ptolemy's map from the time of the Gospels.
• By the 1800s it had firmly established borders and a population of about 3/4 million (but no central govt.)
• During the late 1800s the Zionists started buying up land in Palestine.
• By 1917 it was clear the Zionists wanted the land of Palestine (Britain betrayed the Arabs and promised it to the Zionists.)
• The horror of WW2 brought things to a head concerning a home-land for the Jews.
• The Zionists started planning the capture of Palestine as early as 1945.
• The Zionists had purchased about 8% of Palestinian land by 1947.
• In 1947 the UN announced a PLAN to give much of Palestine to the Zionists.
• The Palestinians and Arabs rejected the plan to give away their best land.
• The Zionists secretly shipped arms into Palestine.
• Civil war broke out, there were battles and atrocities.
• The Zionists started taking Palestinian land by force as early as December 1947.
• Everyone could see a war over the land of Palestine was coming.
• On 14th May 1948 the Zionists declared they owned the land by fiat.
• On 15th May the Arabs declared they would fight to defend Palestine.
• They battled for about 10 months over the land of Palestine.
• About 700,000 local Palestinians were forced from their homes.
• Israel won, the Arabs lost - and the land was re-named 'Israel'.
• The Palestinians still want their land back, and try to fight back.
• Israel continues to gobble up Palestine - only about 12% remains any more.

If you claim any of that is NOT history, then please go ahead and prove me wrong - we all know you want to - why can't you ?

Instead we see consistent FAILURE to refute any of these facts,
we see repeated and consistent failure to even ADDRESS them !

I can, and will, back up any of those facts of history with clear evidence.

Will you address the facts ?
Or just give us more abuses and excuses ?


Kapyong