Why did the Israel's neighbors attack it in May 1948?

[Kapyong]

Gday Jesu disciple and all

Palestinians largely aren't progressing their own situation.

Indeed. I think most would agree there.
Palestinian leadership is often disorganised and corrupt. I'd support Dr Hanan Ashrawi.
And using violence and terrorism is a terrible approach.

But would you say the Jews in WW2 were 'progressing their own situation' ?
Does it matter whether the victims accept their fate like WW2, or fight back as hard as they can like Palestine ?

Israel invaded and captured Palestine by force and ethnic cleansing.
That's history.

But barely 70 years later the propaganda is so dense that most people actually believe Israel was attacked without provocation, that somehow they merely 'gained' some territory in a 'defensive war'. Actually I am starting to suspect that the anti-Palestinians posting here are not just spreading the usual Israeli myths, but REALLY do BELIEVE that Israel was attacked for no reason, and then somehow gained most of Palestine in self-defence. Incredible.

The pro-Israeli bias in the MSM is obvious, silly name-calling me a 'conspiracy theorist' is pathetic.
Here is the opinion of a prominent Jew, well-known in Hollywood :
"the Jews own Hollywood". A common and un-controversal view.
Because Jews are indeed very prominent in Hollywood, occupying many leadership positions
And TV and newspapers and magazines and blogs too.

Do "Palestinians own Hollywood " ?
No. There are none in leadership positions.
Mainstream Media in general ?
Few Palestinians in leadership positions, if any at all.

That's the facts.
No conspiracy, just plain old BIAS.
Movies about the Holocaust 1.0 quickly get green-lit, and usually win an Oscar.
Movies about the Palestinian Holocaust 2.0 - the Disaster (Nakba) ? Hahahaha... No-one even bothers to SUGGEST it.

The enormous BIAS in favour of Israel and against Palestine is obvious to any intelligent objective observer.

Israel even has the power to CENSOR text-books in the US if they don't like the content. As they are ERASING Palestine from the map, so too they are ERASING the truth from history - the information they want to erase is contained in THIS map :

Israel has politically captured the USA - they even managed to have the BDS movement made illegal in one state !
All US politicians commit allegiance to Israel - a foreign country.
Israel controls the USA. Not good.


Kapyong

 

[Gharib]

Nothing yet for post #138,139,140.

Were they ignored or did everyone just happen to not notice them??

 

[Kapyong]

Gday Gharib

Nothing yet for post #138,139,140.
Were they ignored or did everyone just happen to not notice them??

Thanks, that speech by Benjamin Freedman was fascinating, I'll certainly be researching that theory - it's new to me.
(I was always puzzled by just how odd the Balfour Declaration was - it did rather seem to be saying something without saying it.)


Kapyong

 

[Kapyong]

Gday Gharib and all

Well, Zionist involvement in bringing US into WW1 in return for Britain promising them Palestine does seem probable. There is an excellent article here about how Britain betrayed Palestine :
http://www.balfourproject.org/brita...ts-impact-on-the-israelipalestinian-conflict/

Here are some highlights :

In 1915 Britain promised Hussein, the Sharif of Mecca, in a letter deliberately ambiguous, from Sir Henry McMahon, High Commissioner in Egypt, that Britain would support an independent Arab kingdom under his rule in return for his mounting an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire.

The Balfour Declaration 1917 -

It promised to protect the "civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" while showing favour for the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."

But -

Balfour wrote to Lord Curzon in 1919: ‘in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country….The Four Great Powers are committed to Zionism.’ [Shlaim, p. 10.]

On 11 August 1919, Balfour had stated that ‘the four Great Powers were committed to Zionism, and that ‘Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land … ’[Memorandum by Balfour, August 11, 1919. See Khalidi W, ibid., p. 226.]

In 1922 Lord Islington, introducing a debate on the Palestine Mandate in the House of Lords, declared ‘the Mandate for Palestine in its present form is inacceptable to this House, because it directly violates the pledges made by His Majesty’s Government to the people of Palestine in the Declaration of October, 1915, [the McMahon promise] and again in the Declaration of November, 1918, and is, as at present framed, opposed to the sentiments and wishes of the great majority of the people of Palestine.” Government policy was defeated 60-29.


Britain sold Palestine down the river


Kapyong

 

[icehorse]

Hi Kapyong, @Kapyong

Just to clarify, what I'm inferring from your posts is that:

- You think the 1923 British Mandate was appropriate
- You think the 1948 UN mandate was not appropriate

Is that correct? (I understand that you're saying more than this, but I want to verify this much for now)

 

[Kapyong]

Gday icehorse and all

Hi Kapyong, @Kapyong
Just to clarify, what I'm inferring from your posts is that:
- You think the 1923 British Mandate was appropriate
- You think the 1948 UN mandate was not appropriate
Is that correct? (I understand that you're saying more than this, but I want to verify this much for now)

No.
I am saying that Britain betrayed Palestine.
Britain promised the Arabs to support them in a new Palestinian state, then betrayed them by allowing Israel to steal the land.

" Even after the Declaration was passed both the British Government and the Zionists did everything possible to conceal their true intentions.
...
So, Weizmann set about the task of winning Feisal’s and the Arabs’ confidence. ‘It is not our aim’, he told a meeting of Arabs and Jews in Jaffa in May 1918, ‘to get hold of the supreme power and administration in Palestine, nor to deprive any native of his possession’. Rumours and sayings to this effect were, he said, ‘false and unfounded’. All that he wanted, and his fellow Jews throughout the world agreed completely about this, was that Jewish immigrants should be ‘comfortably accommodated’ in a land which could ‘contain many times the present number of its inhabitants’.

On another occasion Weizmann also assured his Arab listeners that ‘a Jewish Government would be fatal’ to his plans and that it was simply his wish ‘to provide a home for the Jews in the Holy Land where they could live their own national life, sharing equal rights with the other inhabitants’. He had, he added, ‘no intention of taking advantage of the present conditions caused by the war by buying up land’, but rather to ‘provide for future immigrants by taking up waste and crown lands of which there were ample for all sections of the community’. Likewise, to Feisal himself Weizmann denied categorically that the Zionists intended to set up a Jewish Government. All that they wanted to do was to help in developing the country ‘without encroaching on other legitimate interests’. "​

http://www.balfourproject.org/brita...ts-impact-on-the-israelipalestinian-conflict/

Britain and the Zionists LIED outright to the Arabs.

Neither Britain, nor the UN, had any right to give away Palestine to the Zionists.
Do YOU believe they did ?


Kapyong

 

[icehorse]

Hi @Kapyong,

Ok, so if I understand what you're saying, then you think the 1923 Mandate was also wrong, do I understand you correctly?

If so, was it ALL wrong, or were just parts of it wrong?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday icehorse and all,

Well, I answer your questions, I address points raised.
Why won't you do the same for me ?

Such as Medic Sgt Elor Azaria executing the wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head.
Any person who supported equality and human rights would quickly denounce such barbarity.
But tragically 80% of Israeli support Azaria - he was just 'doing his job', not a murderer.
Apparently the job of an Israeli soldier is to execute Palestinians !

Why won't any of the pro-Israeli answer these questions :

• Do you support Medic Sgt Elor Azaria executing the wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?
• Do you think Medic Azaria thought al-Sharif's life was worth much less than an Israeli's ?

Which all boils down to the critical question that the pro-Israelis will not answer :

• Are Jewish (or Israeli) lives worth more than Palestinian (or Muslim) lives ?

Many Israelis believe so, a common saying there is “one million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”


One pro-Israeli here justified the invasion and capture of Palestine because there was no "official entity" there (i.e. Palestinian govt.)

As if ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinians from their homes is OK, that burning homes and destroying villages and killing those who resist is OK, that massacring even civilians is OK - just because there was no "official entity" there.

Such is the Israeli view - it's quite clear.
Many Jews and Israelis believe that Jewish lives are worth more than non-Jewish lives.
That non-Jews are lesser humans, non-Jews are just 'unter-mensch', much like animals.

This is Holocaust 2.0 - the Palestinians are sub-humans being killed, their country erased.
Reflecting Holocaust 1.0 - when the Jews were sub-humans being killed and denied land.

History will be very harsh on Israel for causing Holocaust 2.0, soon after suffering Holocaust 1.0.


Kapyong

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't really bother considering @Kapyong's claims now. His premises on this matter are not at all convincing nor useful, and I have no interest in taking them.

 

[Nietzsche]

You make it sound like this was just a wild land grab by the Jews in the region and neglect to point out that the creation of the States of Israel and Palestine were sanctioned by the United Nations. The Israelis had misgivings about the planned partition but eventually agreed. The Arabs in the region never agreed to the plan, that much is true. Israel declared independence and the next day was attacked by her indignant new neighbors. It was a tough long fight and Israel almost lost at a few points... but in the end, it did prevail - barely. Yes, lands were seized during the battles, but that is a long time honored tradition and the losers generally don't get much say in what happens after those decisive battles.

@Nietzsche Would you say that is more or less correct?

9/10, would read again.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday LuisDantas and all

I don't really bother considering @Kapyong's claims now. His premises on this matter are not at all convincing nor useful, and I have no interest in taking them.

Oh
I thought you were taking the time to research the facts.
My mistake.
Disappointing that after asking the question, your response to the facts of history is to 'not believe it' - AND to then refuse to study the facts for yourself.

What about the ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Arab Palestinians from their homes from May 1948 - March 1949, LuisDantas ?
What is your explanation for that, exactly ?
Disbelief ? Silence ? It's their own fault ? Just 'claims' ?

Why won't you (or any of the anti-Palestinians) address the issue of Medic Azaria treating wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?

But most importantly, why won't anyone answer this critical and repeated question -

• Are Israeli (or Jewish) lives worth more than Palestinian (or Muslim) lives ?

If the pro-Israelis promptly and clearly answered 'No' to the question, that would achieve two things for them -
Firstly, they would show me wrong and put me in my place - which they would clearly like to do.
Secondly, they would show commitment to equality and human rights - which surely everyone wants.

But no, they conspicuously AVOID answering that question.
I invite readers to consider why that might be so.


Kapyong
PS. Of course my answer is 'No', I should have said that before, but I thought it was obvious.

 

[YmirGF]

But no, they conspicuously AVOID answering that question.
I invite readers to consider why that might be so.

My own feelings on the matter is that never assume that because people choose not to respond to your points that somehow elevates them beyond the realm of opinion. You have to understand that I, for one, do not think your points merit a response. So, don't start popping the champagne corks just yet. So-called "Palestinian" lives are NOT worth more than Israeli lives, but that doesn't mean that the Palestinian leaders will shy away from their usual games of brinkmanship. The Palestinian leadership, obviously, does not think the lives of their fellow citizens are worth much. As long as people scream, "We love death more than you love life" it will be difficult to reason with such people.

You rant on and on about the so-called "Palestinian genocide" as if it was a real Israeli policy and yet blithely ignore that the annihilation of Israel has been a cornerstone of Palestinian Policy for many, many years.

This is a rather good and insightful article from The Atlantic almost 3 years ago...
What Would Hamas Do If It Could Do Whatever It Wanted?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday YmirGF and all,

Yes, lands were seized during the battles, but that is a long time honored tradition and the losers generally don't get much say in what happens after those decisive battles

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Israel took the land by force.
Their justification is that they won.

Israel initiated an aggressive war of conquest and captured the land.

It's just silly to pretend that the Arabs 'started it' by declaring war, as if nothing had happened before that.

1. Zionists had been buying land for decades.
2. The Arabs realised Britain had betrayed them long before 1948, with Balfour and following.
   
3. Many Jews poured into Palestine after WW2, and a lot of arms too.
4. In 1947 the UN made it clear that the Zionists planned to take the land.
5. Battles broke out between Zionists and Palestinians, massacres occurred.
   
6. The end of the British Mandate was approaching.
7. EVERYONE knew what was coming - a war over the land.

Sure enough, on the very last day of the Mandate, Israel uni-laterally declared themselves a state - covering most of Palestine.

Next day, the Arabs declared war in defense of Palestine. Of course they did.
But they lost the war after 10 months or so - Israel captured the land and has held it ever since.

And now about 70 years later the bulldust is so thick that many people believe the myth that poor old Israel was just defending itself against aggressive Arabs - who attacked with no provocation. That somehow Israel merely 'gained territory' in a 'defensive war'.

Freedom is Slavery !
Invasion is Defense !
Ethnic Cleansing is Democracy !


Kapyong

 

[Lyndon]

I don't really bother considering @Kapyong's claims now. His premises on this matter are not at all convincing nor useful, and I have no interest in taking them.

And you think your "arguments" are convincing!!

 

[icehorse]

Gday icehorse and all,

Well, I answer your questions, I address points raised.
Why won't you do the same for me ?

Such as Medic Sgt Elor Azaria executing the wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head.
Any person who supported equality and human rights would quickly denounce such barbarity.
But tragically 80% of Israeli support Azaria - he was just 'doing his job', not a murderer.
Apparently the job of an Israeli soldier is to execute Palestinians !

Why won't any of the pro-Israeli answer these questions :

• Do you support Medic Sgt Elor Azaria executing the wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?
• Do you think Medic Azaria thought al-Sharif's life was worth much less than an Israeli's ?

Which all boils down to the critical question that the pro-Israelis will not answer :

• Are Jewish (or Israeli) lives worth more than Palestinian (or Muslim) lives ?

Many Israelis believe so, a common saying there is “one million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”


One pro-Israeli here justified the invasion and capture of Palestine because there was no "official entity" there (i.e. Palestinian govt.)

As if ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinians from their homes is OK, that burning homes and destroying villages and killing those who resist is OK, that massacring even civilians is OK - just because there was no "official entity" there.

Such is the Israeli view - it's quite clear.
Many Jews and Israelis believe that Jewish lives are worth more than non-Jewish lives.
That non-Jews are lesser humans, non-Jews are just 'unter-mensch', much like animals.

This is Holocaust 2.0 - the Palestinians are sub-humans being killed, their country erased.
Reflecting Holocaust 1.0 - when the Jews were sub-humans being killed and denied land.

History will be very harsh on Israel for causing Holocaust 2.0, soon after suffering Holocaust 1.0.

Kapyong

Hi Kapyong,

We're in the debate forum correct? You have made a long list of claims. That means we get to challenge you on those claims. Instead of trying to handle 20 claims at once, I'm *trying* to explore one of them with you. If you refuse to do that, then you might be committing a debating error known as the gish gallop.

So, if I recall correctly, you say that you believe BOTH the 1923 British mandate and the 1948 UN mandate were in error - correct?

Next I want to understand whether you think ALL aspects of the 1923 British mandate were in error, or if only some parts were in error. In order to speed things along, if you think only some aspects were in error, perhaps you could list which parts of the 1923 mandate you agree with, and which parts you disagree with.

Fair enough?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday YmirGF and all

My own feelings on the matter is that never assume that because people choose not to respond to your points that somehow elevates them beyond the realm of opinion. You have to understand that I, for one, do not think your points merit a response.

Standard tactic to simply ignore anything critical about Israel.

Frankly the incident in which Medic Azaria treated wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head is an important event giving insight into how Israelis routinely murder Palestinians.

And the key question is both critical and relevant, highlighting the central problem :

• Are Israeli/Jewish lives worth more than Palestinian/Muslim lives ?

The pro-Israeli answer is quite clear.

So, don't start popping the champagne corks just yet. So-called "Palestinian" lives are NOT worth more than Israeli lives, but that doesn't mean that the Palestinian leaders will shy away from their usual games of brinkmanship. The Palestinian leadership, obviously, does not think the lives of their fellow citizens are worth much. As long as people scream, "We love death more than you love life" it will be difficult to reason with such people.

Excuse #2 But Hamas !
Yes, Hamas does some evil terrorism. I reject it.
Israel comitts terror too. I reject that too.

Let's recap -
Zionists stole the land by force and ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs.
The Arabs were beaten, and the land became 'Israel'.
Palestinians have been fighting for the land back ever since.
There is only about 12% of Palestine left now, it's almost entirely erased.
The Palestinian Freedom Fighters are desperately fighting to hold their land.

Hamas sometimes does terrible things, that's true.
But somehow that makes it OK for Israel to do even worse (?!)

Hamas commits terror, so Israeli terror is justified (?!)

This horrific view has lead to this - happening now in Palestine :

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to invade and capture Palestine with ethnic cleansing.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to kidnap youngsters at night and imprison, torture, and even sexually abuse them, then use them as human shields.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israeli snipers to murder Palestinian youngsters for sport.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to invade Gaza in 2014 with tanks and attack helicopters and illegal white phosphorous shells, and massacre thousands of Palestinians (mostly civilians), destroy 10,000 homes, disable hundreds of children - in 'just self-defence' for three Israelis killed.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to immediately execute Palestinian women and children who get confused and go the wrong way.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to eject Palestinian families from their homes, demolish whole towns, and create an illegal new settlement.

Israel is persecuting a new Holocaust 2.0 on the Palestinians.
And blaming the victims for DARING to fight back.

You rant on and on about the so-called "Palestinian genocide" as if it was a real Israeli policy and yet blithely ignore that the annihilation of Israel has been a cornerstone of Palestinian Policy for many, many years.

How many, many years ?
Perhaps about 68 years ?
Since the date when Israel initiated an aggressive war of capture and took the land, beating off the Arab defenders ?
Since the time 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were driven from their homes by ethnic cleansing ?
Since the time a whole chunk of Palestine was renamed 'Israel' ?
About that long ?

The Palestinians want their land back from the invader Israel.
Of course they do.
And of course Israel always calls this the 'annihilation of Israel'.
Well, if Israel just gave the land back and left the region, there would be no 'annihilation' at all.

Meanwhile, Palestine is ACTUALLY being annihilated, being erased from the map, leaving about 12% remaining now.

But apparently that's OK - because Hamas WANTS Israel gone (sorry, they want them 'annihilated'.)

Got that, ladies and gentlemen of the audience ?

Pro-Israelis justify the ACTUAL annihilation of Palestine,
because Hamas WANTS their land back.

War is Peace !
Self-Defence (theirs) is Treachery !
Invasion (ours) is Self-Defence !


Kapyong

 

[Kapyong]

Gday icehorse and all

Hi Kapyong,

We're in the debate forum correct? You have made a long list of claims. That means we get to challenge you on those claims. Instead of trying to handle 20 claims at once, I'm *trying* to explore one of them with you. If you refuse to do that, then you might be committing a debating error known as the gish gallop.

So, if I recall correctly, you say that you believe BOTH the 1923 British mandate and the 1948 UN mandate were in error - correct?

Next I want to understand whether you think ALL aspects of the 1923 British mandate were in error, or if only some parts were in error. In order to speed things along, if you think only some aspects were in error, perhaps you could list which parts of the 1923 mandate you agree with, and which parts you disagree with.

Fair enough?

No, not fair enough.
You recall incorrectly.
I have made NO claims about the 1923 or 1948 mandates at all.
You are not addressing one of my claims, just attempting a distraction on some technicality no doubt.
You are doing the opposite of 'speeding things along', you are stalled motionless on my questions.

But anyway - neither Britain not the UN had the right to give away Palestine to the Zionists.
If you think there is something relevant and important in those documents, then please present your argument.

Meanwhile I have made a great many claims that you have ignored repeatedly.
Will you be addressing any of them ?

Here is what history records :

• Zionists started buy up Palestinian land from the late 1800s, reaching maybe 5% by 1948
• Britain betrayed their promise to the Arabs and secretly supported the Zionists
• The Zionist plan was clearly revealed in 1947 by the UN
• Everyone knew a war was coming
• Israel declared themselves, the Arabs declared war back at them
• They fought for 10 months
• Israel won and captured all the land
• 700,000 Palestinians were forced out
• Ever since then, the Palestinians have wanted their land back
• Israel has kept gobbling up land, leaving maybe 12% of Palestine remaining

Do you disagree with those facts ?


If you do want to discuss all this, why won't you comment on Medic Azaria executing wounded al-Sharif ?

• Do you support Medic Sgt Elor Azaria executing wounded and helpless al-Sharif with a shot to the head ?
• Do you think Medic Sgt Elor Azaria saw al-Sharif's life as worth less than a Jewish life ?

And the key question :

• Do you believe that a Jewish/Israeli life is worth more than a Palestinian/Muslim life ?

The conspicuous pro-Israeli silence on that is deafening, and clearly supports the argument that many Jews and Israelis believe a Jewish life is worth much more than a non-Jewish life.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." --Rabbi Ya'acov Perin
In his Eulogy for mass-murderer Baruch Goldstein.


Kapyong

 

[YmirGF]

Gday YmirGF and all



Standard tactic to simply ignore anything critical about Israel.

Frankly the incident in which Medic Azaria treated wounded al-Sharif with a shot to the head is an important event giving insight into how Israelis routinely murder Palestinians.

And the key question is both critical and relevant, highlighting the central problem :

• Are Israeli/Jewish lives worth more than Palestinian/Muslim lives ?

The pro-Israeli answer is quite clear.



Excuse #2 But Hamas !
Yes, Hamas does some evil terrorism. I reject it.
Israel comitts terror too. I reject that too.

Let's recap -
Zionists stole the land by force and ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs.
The Arabs were beaten, and the land became 'Israel'.
Palestinians have been fighting for the land back ever since.
There is only about 12% of Palestine left now, it's almost entirely erased.
The Palestinian Freedom Fighters are desperately fighting to hold their land.

Hamas sometimes does terrible things, that's true.
But somehow that makes it OK for Israel to do even worse (?!)

Hamas commits terror, so Israeli terror is justified (?!)

This horrific view has lead to this - happening now in Palestine :

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to invade and capture Palestine with ethnic cleansing.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to kidnap youngsters at night and imprison, torture, and even sexually abuse them, then use them as human shields.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israeli snipers to murder Palestinian youngsters for sport.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to invade Gaza in 2014 with tanks and attack helicopters and illegal white phosphorous shells, and massacre thousands of Palestinians (mostly civilians), destroy 10,000 homes, disable hundreds of children - in 'just self-defence' for three Israelis killed.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to immediately execute Palestinian women and children who get confused and go the wrong way.

Hamas is evil,
therefore its OK for Israel to eject Palestinian families from their homes, demolish whole towns, and create an illegal new settlement.

Israel is persecuting a new Holocaust 2.0 on the Palestinians.
And blaming the victims for DARING to fight back.




How many, many years ?
Perhaps about 68 years ?
Since the date when Israel initiated an aggressive war of capture and took the land, beating off the Arab defenders ?
Since the time 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were driven from their homes by ethnic cleansing ?
Since the time a whole chunk of Palestine was renamed 'Israel' ?
About that long ?

The Palestinians want their land back from the invader Israel.
Of course they do.
And of course Israel always calls this the 'annihilation of Israel'.
Well, if Israel just gave the land back and left the region, there would be no 'annihilation' at all.

Meanwhile, Palestine is ACTUALLY being annihilated, being erased from the map, leaving about 12% remaining now.

But apparently that's OK - because Hamas WANTS Israel gone (sorry, they want them 'annihilated'.)

Got that, ladies and gentlemen of the audience ?

Pro-Israelis justify the ACTUAL annihilation of Palestine,
because Hamas WANTS their land back.

War is Peace !
Self-Defence (theirs) is Treachery !
Invasion (ours) is Self-Defence !


Kapyong

So much for tying to be reasonable. Enjoy your little jihad.

 

[icehorse]

@Kapyong Of course I believe every human life has equal value - don't be a jerk. (I will say however that Hamas's leaders clearly don't hold the same values.)

You're claiming that land was stolen, correct? That's the claim I'm addressing. If you want to defend that claim, then answer my questions. If you don't then it would appear that you're making at least one claim with no evidence to back it up.

Remember, these are your claims, I'm under no obligation to address any of them. But I choose to address your claim about stolen lands.

 

[Lyndon]

Sorry but you can't win a debate by not participating.......