Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[Desert Snake]

How bizarre one wants to get concerning the 'sacrifice', sure, you can get pretty bizarre with this.

 

[PruePhillip]

That is sort of weird.

John 10

Yeshuah calls himself a shepherd, not a lamb. I have brought this up in discussions, a shepherd vs a lamb, no answers. Someone calls yeshuah a lamb in scripture, that is about it.

That's true. Jesus is The Shepherd. He's also the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
His blood was shed, like the lamb in Egypt, to save the people from the angel of death coming
upon the earth.
And Jesus is the "lion of the tribe of Judah"
He's Michael, Shiloh, Lord, elder brother, God in the flesh, son of God, son of man, Emmanuel,
son of David, master etc..

 

[PruePhillip]

I have been anticipating the end for 36 years. It could come at any time now. I believe I will have a prophetic dream, which will tell me when it will happen. Numbers 12:6. I know what's going to happen, I just don't know when.

Of course, no-one knows when the end will come.
And for thousands of years Jews would break a
glass and cry "Next year in Jerusalem", believing,
for the most part, that would never happen. But
strangely, weirdly, it did eventually happen.

 

[Desert Snake]

And Jesus is the "lion of the tribe of Judah"
He's Michael, Shiloh, Lord, elder brother, God in the flesh, son of God, son of man, Emmanuel,
son of David, master etc..

I don't know what your theology is, quite, however, is what you wrote, a correlate to 'yeshua is a priestly replacement sacrifice', or, 'yeshua is a sacrifice that infers the unblemished lamb, in relation to normal sacrifices'?

Because it sure doesn't seem like it.

 

[susanblange]

That's true. Jesus is The Shepherd. He's also the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
His blood was shed, like the lamb in Egypt, to save the people from the angel of death coming
upon the earth.
And Jesus is the "lion of the tribe of Judah"
He's Michael, Shiloh, Lord, elder brother, God in the flesh, son of God, son of man, Emmanuel,
son of David, master etc..

The Messiah is not a Passover lamb, which is male. The Messiah is a lamb for a sin offering, which has to be female. Isaiah 53:7, Isaiah 53:10. Since Jesus was not a sin offering, Christians are yet in their sin and there is no atonement.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Messiah is a lamb for a sin offering, which has to be female. Isaiah 53:7,.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Is the lamb slain a male or female?
The sacrifice is usually a male animal.

 

[PruePhillip]

I don't know what your theology is, quite, however, is what you wrote, a correlate to 'yeshua is a priestly replacement sacrifice', or, 'yeshua is a sacrifice that infers the unblemished lamb, in relation to normal sacrifices'?

Because it sure doesn't seem like it.

Not sure of the question, but Jesus came to be
1 - our great high priest
2 - our Lord and King
3 - our atonement through the sacrifice of his life.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not sure of the question, but Jesus came to be
1 - our great high priest
2 - our Lord and King
3 - our atonement through the sacrifice of his life.

The sacrifice isn't [adamic, meaning 'everyone'. Nor is it complete atonement. If the sacrifice were [adamic, for everyone, all sins, then no need to worry about sin, the sacrifice would cover everything.

Not only is it not complete atonement, it's contextual

John 3:36

 

[susanblange]

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Is the lamb slain a male or female?
The sacrifice is usually a male animal.

I've already posted this: Read Leviticus 4:32, and Malachi 1:14. A lamb for a sin offering for the common people has to be female.

 

[PruePhillip]

I've already posted this: Read Leviticus 4:32, and Malachi 1:14. A lamb for a sin offering for the common people has to be female.

And the lamb which was brought into the homes of the Jewish slaves,
slain, consumed and its blood put upon the lintel to save the people
from the death angel, was it female?

 

[PruePhillip]

The sacrifice isn't [adamic, meaning 'everyone'. Nor is it complete atonement. If the sacrifice were [adamic, for everyone, all sins, then no need to worry about sin, the sacrifice would cover everything.

Not only is not complete atonement, it's contextual

John 3:36

Sorry but I can't quite grasp the argument.

 

[susanblange]

And the lamb which was brought into the homes of the Jewish slaves,
slain, consumed and its blood put upon the lintel to save the people
from the death angel, was it female?

No. The Passover lamb was a male.

 

[sooda]

A good point. This is how modern scribes "date" books they don't wish to explain away.
But Daniel spoke of the Messiah coming to his temple and being cut off by the Romans,
plus the destruction of the Temple. So Daniel had to be written, at the earliest, about the
First Century AD.
And Ezekiel's account (chapter 38,39) has yet to happen (the new Israel's war with
Magog and the Muslim world) so Ezekiel hasn't been written yet.

The war of Gog and Magog happen in 628 BC.
Daniel is writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

The Arabs, Syrians and Egyptians among other member of the Roman Empire fought with the Roman armies of Titus and Vespasian in 70 AD during the grape harvest.





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[PruePhillip]

The war of Gog and Magog happen in 628 BC.
Daniel is writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

The Arabs, Syrians and Egyptians among other member of the Roman Empire fought with the Roman armies of Titus and Vespasian in 70 AD during the grape harvest.
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Ezekiel is familiar with the nations involved with Magog in this epic battle.
It's Super Interesting.
Those nations are not within their boundaries today, with the exception
maybe of the Persians, modern Iran.
But Israel has a single ally - Ezekiel doesn't know its name. He refers to
it as being the "islands" or the "coastlands." I suspect this is America.
Magog is to the "uttermost North" of Israel, ie you can't go any north'er.
Sounds like Russia.
And the "coastlands" will "send fire" upon Mogog ---- from the North.
How can that be if Magog IS the uttermost North? Easy, any nuclear
attack by America would be across the North Pole.

In any case, this is a battle Israel wins. It didn't exactly come out too
well in the AD70 war, or the next two wars either.

And chillingly, it says that "all" the Jews will be back in Israel. "All."
Does that mean antisemitism will get so bad in the West that the Jews
will leave these liberal nations as they did the Arab nations after 1948?

 

[sooda]

Ezekiel is familiar with the nations involved with Magog in this epic battle.
It's Super Interesting.
Those nations are not within their boundaries today, with the exception
maybe of the Persians, modern Iran.
But Israel has a single ally - Ezekiel doesn't know its name. He refers to
it as being the "islands" or the "coastlands." I suspect this is America.
Magog is to the "uttermost North" of Israel, ie you can't go any north'er.
Sounds like Russia.
And the "coastlands" will "send fire" upon Mogog ---- from the North.
How can that be if Magog IS the uttermost North? Easy, any nuclear
attack by America would be across the North Pole.

In any case, this is a battle Israel wins. It didn't exactly come out too
well in the AD70 war, or the next two wars either.

And chillingly, it says that "all" the Jews will be back in Israel. "All."
Does that mean antisemitism will get so bad in the West that the Jews
will leave these liberal nations as they did the Arab nations after 1948?

The Jews didn't all leave the Arab nation in 1948. They left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

What verses in Ezekiel are you talking about?

 

[sooda]

As Russia
According to one modern theory of dispensationalist Biblical hermeneutics, Gog and Magog are supposed to represent Russia. The Scofield Reference Bible's notes to Ezekiel claim that "Meshech" is a Hebrew form of Moscow, and that "Tubal" represents the Siberian capital Tobolsk. During the Cold War this identification led Hal Lindsey to claim that the Soviet Union would play a major role in the end times.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union some commentators have attempted to cast some other country in the role of Gog. Apocalyptic author Louis Bauman claimed that the word "Caucasian" came from the Arabic term "gog-i-hisn" for the mountains there which means "fortress of Gog".

However, this identification is unanimously rejected by even the most conservative of credentialed biblical scholars working in accredited institutions of higher learning. It should be noted that the Scythians, who were identified by Josephus and others as being Magog, lived in what is now Russia and Ukraine.

The legend of Gog and Magog, as well as the land of Rosh, also plays a significant part in the New Chronology of Russian pseudohistorian Anatoly Fomenko.

The Arabs think Gog and Magog are the Mongols. LOLOL

Some of the Scythians stuck around and built a city in Palestine.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Jews didn't all leave the Arab nation in 1948. They left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

What verses in Ezekiel are you talking about?

Chapter 38 and 39. This talks about an enormous battle which appeared to involve
more than spears and slings. Rome is not mentioned, and Greece as we know it
didn't exist. And this Israel is a second coming to Israel, the first being the return
from Babylon. And its a battle Israel wins with the help of its unnamed ally.

 

[sooda]

I have been influenced by Herbert W. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God. He wrote a little book called "The United States and Britain in Prophecy". I accept it as Truth because it makes sense and it fits in nicely with my beliefs.

The Tribulation was over in 70 AD.

Even Armstron's family rebuked him as a false prophet.

 

[sooda]

Chapter 38 and 39. This talks about an enormous battle which appeared to involve
more than spears and slings. Rome is not mentioned, and Greece as we know it
didn't exist. And this Israel is a second coming to Israel, the first being the return
from Babylon. And its a battle Israel wins with the help of its unnamed ally.

Meshek and Tubal are in Turkey, the earthly shadow of Gog is the emperor of the Seljuk Turks. The Seljuk Turks, Gog, conquered Israel in A.D. 1071—a thousand years after the Jewish War.

The Seljuk Turks famously all rode horses into battle (v. 15: “You [Gog] will come from your place in the far north [Turkey is north of Israel], you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses)”

Furthermore, four years before the Seljuk Turks conquered Israel, an earthquake, like the one predicted in v. 19, hit central Israel killing 25,000 people.

After the Seljuk conquest of the Holy Land, these Muslims assaulted Christian pilgrims on their way to Israel. This injustice caused the first crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.

In A.D. 1096, crusaders hurled stones launched by catapults and firebrands dipped in sulfur into Muslim-occupied Jerusalem. Also when the Seljuk Turks besieged Crusader-occupied Antioch prior to the Crusader siege of Jerusalem an eyewitness said that a meteor (fire from the sky) fell on the Turkish encampment.

Later the Crusaders claimed they saw a vision of a vast army dressed all in white atop white horses. Emboldened by these signs, the Crusaders charged out of the city during a rain storm that benefited the Crusaders and they defeated the Seljuk Turks. In these two Crusader victories Ezekiel 38:22 is fulfilled: “I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him [Gog] and on his troops."



” Furthermore, four years before the Seljuk Turks conquered Israel, an earthquake, like the one predicted in v. 19, hit central Israel killing 25,000 people. After the Seljuk conquest of the Holy Land, these Muslims assaulted Christian pilgrims on their way to Israel. This injustice caused the first crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.


(Ezekiel 38 Intro: During the Thousand Years between the Jewish War and the Crusades, Christian Israel Enjoyed Unprecedented Peace until the First Crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.)

 

[PruePhillip]

Meshek and Tubal are in Turkey, the earthly shadow of Gog is the emperor of the Seljuk Turks. The Seljuk Turks, Gog, conquered Israel in A.D. 1071—a thousand years after the Jewish War.

The Seljuk Turks famously all rode horses into battle (v. 15: “You [Gog] will come from your place in the far north [Turkey is north of Israel], you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses)”

Furthermore, four years before the Seljuk Turks conquered Israel, an earthquake, like the one predicted in v. 19, hit central Israel killing 25,000 people.

After the Seljuk conquest of the Holy Land, these Muslims assaulted Christian pilgrims on their way to Israel. This injustice caused the first crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.

In A.D. 1096, crusaders hurled stones launched by catapults and firebrands dipped in sulfur into Muslim-occupied Jerusalem. Also when the Seljuk Turks besieged Crusader-occupied Antioch prior to the Crusader siege of Jerusalem an eyewitness said that a meteor (fire from the sky) fell on the Turkish encampment.

Later the Crusaders claimed they saw a vision of a vast army dressed all in white atop white horses. Emboldened by these signs, the Crusaders charged out of the city during a rain storm that benefited the Crusaders and they defeated the Seljuk Turks. In these two Crusader victories Ezekiel 38:22 is fulfilled: “I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him [Gog] and on his troops."



” Furthermore, four years before the Seljuk Turks conquered Israel, an earthquake, like the one predicted in v. 19, hit central Israel killing 25,000 people. After the Seljuk conquest of the Holy Land, these Muslims assaulted Christian pilgrims on their way to Israel. This injustice caused the first crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.


(Ezekiel 38 Intro: During the Thousand Years between the Jewish War and the Crusades, Christian Israel Enjoyed Unprecedented Peace until the First Crusade, the Battle of Gog and Magog.)

I didn't know the Jews had gone back to Israel for this battle, and were all living peacefully in
unwalled cities. What became of these Jews after they defeated their enemies? Who was
Israel's ally in all this?