Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[CG Didymus]

Why have Christains not yet accepted the Messiah, the Father Baha'u'llah promised by Christ?

In the olden days of the 70's, I don't remember Baha's referring to Baha'u'llah as "The Father". Where do you get that from?

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Bahaullah did not:

• have a Converse with G-d
• in which G-d appointed him a Messenger of G-d
• and gave a reference to such Converse.
• No such claims have been made in Kitab-i-Iqan in straightforward and unequivocal terms.

It is the Bahais who imply and ring the bells unauthorized from G-d. Bahais don't appoint one a Messenger of G-d, it is G-d who does.
Right, please?

Baha'u'llah makes it very clear.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

Sorry, it does not consist on Converse of G-d*.
It is written by Bahaullah himself and described by him as revelation, not a Converse of G-d.
Right, please?

Regards
____________
*"Introduction":
"Among them is the complete Súriy-i-Haykal, the Súrih of the Temple, one of Bahá’u’lláh’s most challenging works. ", not G-d's Work/Converse.

 

[Spartan]

But raising the dead, healing the sick, and resurrection are not prerequisites for being a "messiah", of which there were numerous ones mentioned in the Tanakh.

Even the likes of Aquinas understood that if one took a literal translation of these predictions, then Jesus couldn't be "the Messiah". Instead, he felt that there were some errors within the Tanakh that allowed for Jesus to fit that role.

So, God allows imposters to heal the sick and raise the dead, etc.? All the while fulfilling Messianic prophecies?

 

[Spartan]

Certainly somewhat more believable than the guy whose only claim to messiah-hood is that he says, "I am the messiah!"

"only claim to fame"? What book have you been reading that only says that?

 

[Spartan]

That is a quandary. I will ask a question that will outline the quandary.

Why have Christains not yet accepted the Messiah, the Father Baha'u'llah promised by Christ?

Consider the answers that you give, will reflect the same reasons Jews have used to reject Christ. Thus why would you have good reasons and they do not?

I can also offer readings to show baseless objections.

Thus the quandary that is this OP.

Regards Tony

Did Christians make an error in receiving Jesus as their Lord God and Messiah? If so, show me where?

 

[Vinayaka]

"only claim to fame"? What book have you been reading that only says that?

I don't read books, I'm an illiterate fool. What have you read about Meher Baba, Baha'ullah, the Ammadiya guy whose name I forget, and all the other some 3000+ messiah claimants in the last few hundred years? Yes, some have written books, and the followers have claimed to have seen miracles, but on the whole it's been one self-proclamation after the other.

But then, what does an illiterate fool have to say about much at all?

 

[Spartan]

Have you read this?

Years ago.

 

[CG Didymus]

Did Christians make an error in receiving Jesus as their Lord God and Messiah? If so, show me where?

Baha'is are saying that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ. And they wonder how Christians are missing this. But the God and Jesus that most Christians believe in is not the God and Jesus that the Baha'is are talking about. Their God is not a Trinity. Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. Those verses about the resurrection were meant to be symbolic, not literal. So after those "slight" adjustments, Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies about the second coming... they say.

They use a lot of things in Daniel to show that the return was to happen in 1844. But, that was not Baha'u'llah. It was his forerunner, The Bab. So there is a few things that have to fudged to make every prophecy get fulfilled. Oh, and in Revelation, some Baha'is have said that Jesus is not the Lamb that was slain, that was The Bab. And the Three Woes in Revelation are predictions of Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. The beasts and dragons are believed to be the Umayyad and Abbasid Islamic leaders. So, for them, there's tons of proof he's the Christ returned.[/QUOTE]

 

[firedragon]

Years ago.

Brother. You should read it. What you are quoting is only a letter. Though it does not say anything to support your view of Daniel 9, let me quote to you a part of the letter you quoted from.

""The first one to have adopted this plan was Jesus the Nazarene, may his bones be ground to dust. He was a Jew because his mother was a Jewess although his father was a Gentile. For in accordance with the principles of our law, a child born of a Jewess and a Gentile, or of a Jewess and a slave, is legitimate. Jesus is only figuratively termed an illegitimate child. He impelled people to believe that he was a prophet sent by God to clarify perplexities in the Torah, and that he was the Messiah that was predicted by each and every seer. He interpreted the Torah and its precepts in such a fashion as to lead to their total annulment, to the abolition of all its commandments and to the violation of its prohibitions. The sages, of blessed memory, having become aware of his plans before his reputation spread among our people, meted out fitting punishment to him.""

Thats from the same letter you quoted. Author - Maimonides. Letter to Yemen.

In the passage you gave the only reference to Daniel 9 is the time of the anointed prince's advent. Not that he will be killed and the war will continue.

And take a look at Rashi's commentary on this. He apparently believes it refers to Agrippa and other Jewish rabbi's said that Rashi was referring to the son.

Peace.

 

[Spartan]

Brother. You should read it. What you are quoting is only a letter. Though it does not say anything to support your view of Daniel 9, let me quote to you a part of the letter you quoted from.

""The first one to have adopted this plan was Jesus the Nazarene, may his bones be ground to dust. He was a Jew because his mother was a Jewess although his father was a Gentile. For in accordance with the principles of our law, a child born of a Jewess and a Gentile, or of a Jewess and a slave, is legitimate. Jesus is only figuratively termed an illegitimate child. He impelled people to believe that he was a prophet sent by God to clarify perplexities in the Torah, and that he was the Messiah that was predicted by each and every seer. He interpreted the Torah and its precepts in such a fashion as to lead to their total annulment, to the abolition of all its commandments and to the violation of its prohibitions. The sages, of blessed memory, having become aware of his plans before his reputation spread among our people, meted out fitting punishment to him.""

Thats from the same letter you quoted. Author - Maimonides. Letter to Yemen.

In the passage you gave the only reference to Daniel 9 is the time of the anointed prince's advent. Not that he will be killed and the war will continue.

And take a look at Rashi's commentary on this. He apparently believes it refers to Agrippa and other Jewish rabbi's said that Rashi was referring to the son.

Peace.

Little did they know Jesus' father was no gentile. His father was God Almighty. But that's just one of the mistakes and misinformation some of those ancient rabbis made about Jesus.

 

[Spartan]

Baha'is are saying that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ. And they wonder how Christians are missing this. But the God and Jesus that most Christians believe in is not the God and Jesus that the Baha'is are talking about. Their God is not a Trinity. Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. Those verses about the resurrection were meant to be symbolic, not literal. So after those "slight" adjustments, Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies about the second coming... they say.

They use a lot of things in Daniel to show that the return was to happen in 1844. But, that was not Baha'u'llah. It was his forerunner, The Bab. So there is a few things that have to fudged to make every prophecy get fulfilled. Oh, and in Revelation, some Baha'is have said that Jesus is not the Lamb that was slain, that was The Bab. And the Three Woes in Revelation are predictions of Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. The beasts and dragons are believed to be the Umayyad and Abbasid Islamic leaders. So, for them, there's tons of proof he's the Christ returned.

Thanks. Man do they have some screwed up beliefs. Almost sounds like the Jehovah Witnesses cult.

As for the Resurrection, they should read the following work by scholar Gary Habermas: "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus." Jesus was physically resurrected. He ate meals with his disciples, and doubting Thomas was a doubter no more.

 

[firedragon]

Little did they know Jesus' father was no gentile. His father was God Almighty. But that's just one of the mistakes and misinformation some of those ancient rabbis made about Jesus.

Well. I am only quoting your quoted sources of "Jewish rabbi's". Its not that I agree with them.

Know your sources brother. Read them well.

Peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well that was another quick and abrupt topic shift.

The world's future is that it will end. It may be 10 years, 100 years, 10 000 years, or millions of years. That part is obvious. The messiah type religions are all slowly losing ground to more reasonable approaches like atheism or agnosticism, some faster than others.

The topic is why did we not see the Messiah.

If the answer is that it did happen, then there may also be guidance as to what the future holds.

I see we have a great future as a human race, but I do see there will be great change to achieve that future.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the olden days of the 70's, I don't remember Baha's referring to Baha'u'llah as "The Father". Where do you get that from?

Baha'u'llah revealed that verse quite a few times.

"The Voice of the Son of Man is calling aloud from the sacred veil: 'Here am I, here am I, O God, My God!' The Father hath come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom of God is fulfilled." (The Words of Bahá'u'lláh, p.104)

There are a few places this has been said in the writings. In the introduction to the' Summons of the Lord of Hosts' Shoghi Effendi has written;

'.... Kings are censured, ecclesiastical dignitaries arraigned, ministers and plenipotentiaries condemned, and the identification of His advent with the coming of the Father Himself unequivocally admitted and repeatedly announced. The violent downfall of a few of these kings and emperors is prophesied, two of them are definitely challenged, most are warned, all are appealed to and exhorted.... '

RegardsTony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry, it does not consist on Converse of G-d*.
It is written by Bahaullah himself and described by him as revelation, not a Converse of G-d.
Right, please?

What can I say, Jesus and Muhammad did not write down thier Given Revelation from God, but the Bab and Baha'u'llah did, so how is your question at all reasonable?

Does the act of writing make it less of a Revelation?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did Christians make an error in receiving Jesus as their Lord God and Messiah? If so, show me where?

There is no error in accepting that Jesus was the Christ. I personally see It is a requirement in life.

The issues most likely set in early starting at Nicaea - First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia

I would consider that when the Trinity was added to the Bible by the late 300's an error had started. I see Muhammad came and corrected that error.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Little did they know Jesus' father was no gentile. His father was God Almighty. But that's just one of the mistakes and misinformation some of those ancient rabbis made about Jesus.

There could very well be misinformation in that statement.

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

Jesus was for the early Jewish Christians a Jewish Messiah, so more of a local Messiah for just one people.
This idea was changed by other Christians into a kind of universal Messiah.

I'm personally more interested in world Messianic figures from the start such as Shiva and Krishna who did not come for just one people but to change the destiny of the entire planet.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since there are false messiahs, what are some of the things that the true messiah will do? Plus, how many messiahs do Jews expect? Because the Baha'is not only claim Baha'u'llah as a messiah, but also The Bab, Muhammad, and Jesus.

Be David (rule Israel from Jerusalem)
Bring all the Jews in from the four corners of the earth back to the Land of Israel. All of us.
Bring a literal world peace, a cessation of all wars everywhere

None of these things has happened -- thus the messiah has not yet come. All messianic claims thus far have failed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Israel also rebelled against God numerous times with devastating judgments that followed, and they also rejected and killed their own prophets. Why should anyone think they will initially well receive their own Messiah?

Because it says so.

In fact, the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD by the Romans was due in part for their rejection of Christ, who was God incarnate.

30 years after the fact? A little late don't you think??????

In fact, the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD (the destruction of Jerusalem was another events decades later) happened because of senseless, groundless hatred of Jews for one another. In the end, Jews were killing more of one another than the Romans. Just think about that for a moment. It is said that when we learn to love without reason, that this is when the messiah will return.