Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[Spartan]

Guess again.

I'm not taking sides on this, but one's position largely boils down to how they interpret various verses that many believe are messianic in nature.

Sure, that's the case with some, but the Messiah has already come. He healed the sick and raised the dead and resurrected to prove his credentials.

 

[Spartan]

Which rabbi?

Here's two:

Maimonides (Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon): "Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise [rabbis] have barred the calculation of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah" (Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 p.24.)

"Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi: "I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures and have not found the time for the coming of Messiah clearly fixed, except in the words of Gabriel to the prophet Daniel, which are written in the 9th chapter of the prophecy of Daniel (The Messiah of the Targums, Talmuds and Rabbinical Writers, 1971) p.141-142.

 

[firedragon]

Here's two:

Maimonides (Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon): "Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise [rabbis] have barred the calculation of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah" (Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 p.24.)

"Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi: "I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures and have not found the time for the coming of Messiah clearly fixed, except in the words of Gabriel to the prophet Daniel, which are written in the 9th chapter of the prophecy of Daniel (The Messiah of the Targums, Talmuds and Rabbinical Writers, 1971) p.141-142.

the Messiah is "cut off" (killed) and THEN "war continues until the end."??

 

[firedragon]

Maimonides (Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon): "Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise [rabbis] have barred the calculation of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah" (Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 p.24.)

Have you read this?

 

[paarsurrey]

Because he didn't fulfill their prophecies, case closed. It was Christians who made up anti-Semitic reasons for the Jews rejecting Jesus, but it was lies.

If the Jews had the opinion that the prophecies had not been fulfilled, they should have simply not accepted Jesus, that is understandable. But that does not give them a license that they should have collaborated against him to put him on the Cross with the intent to kill him. It is sure a cruelty done by the Judaism people. One is wrong here.Sure, it was an evil reason/endeavor. Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But that happens everywhere. It's the nature of the ego, and a necessary yet sad part of most committees. To call people wolves just because they had a personal insight into how things can be better is kind of a stretch?

Yes it does happen everywhere and I see Ego is our greatest veil to enlightenment.

I see we have been capacity to subdue ego in preference to service to all others. This is definitely a core principle of every Faith, that has come from God.

Ego is our darkness, I see that is what the Bible tells us is our hell, it is satan, it is the devil.

The worst affliction of ego, is covenant breaking. It is what the Bible calls the Anti Christ. There is no greater spiritual disease. A key thought here is one is not an anti Christ if they have not chosen to accepted Jesus as the Christ. (That is applicable to all Messengers) Thus what I am saying is that a person is not an Anti Baha'u'llah because they have not accepted Him.

To put that in perspective.

Some of Baha'u'llah's worst enemies were not the 'Anti Christ', it was His half brother that became that, his ego knew no limits.

This is one way Bahaullah puts it;

"My captivity can bring on Me no shame. ... That which can make Me ashamed is the conduct of such of My followers as profess to love Me, yet in fact follow the Evil One. They, indeed, are of the lost."

That to me is the danger of ego it becomes the wolf is sheep's clothing.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahaullah did not claim in clear and unequivocal terms that G-d conversed with him.
If yes, then please quote from "Kitab-i-Iqan"in this connection.
If not, then Bahaullah had no authority to bind others in a Covenant while himself not committing to it.
Bahaullah himself broke the previous Covenants by taking a new one. Right, please?

Regards

For you to decide paarsurrey.

I see No Messenger of God has proclaimed as wide and as loud as Baha'u'llah has done. The bells were tolled around the world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There were many people who were claiming to be a messiah brother. Most of them caught and killed by the romans for sedition. Jesus is one of them, but of course through the years, the most successful due to whatever reason.

However, the Jews of course rejected him because their vision of the Messiah was very different to the life of Jesus (or rather the death).

Ah, but I am commenting late here and I'm sure everyone knows this of course.

Yes many were to come and use Christ's name in vain. The Bible warns of them.

The Bible also tells us how to accept a True Prophet.

Thus the choice becomes yours.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Yes many were to come and use Christ's name in vain. The Bible warns of them.

The Bible also tells us how to accept a True Prophet.

Thus the choice becomes yours.

Regards Tony

Thats not what I meant brother.

At the time of Jesus, there were many others who claimed to be "Messiah".

Of course Rome killed them for sedition.

 

[paarsurrey]

For you to decide paarsurrey.

I see No Messenger of God has proclaimed as wide and as loud as Baha'u'llah has done. The bells were tolled around the world.

Regards Tony

Bahaullah did not:

• have a Converse with G-d
• in which G-d appointed him a Messenger of G-d
• and gave a reference to such Converse.
• No such claims have been made in Kitab-i-Iqan in straightforward and unequivocal terms.

It is the Bahais who imply and ring the bells unauthorized from G-d. Bahais don't appoint one a Messenger of G-d, it is G-d who does.
Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

They don't have good reasons for rejecting Jesus. If you want to know why they don't, do your homework.

Here's some recommended reading for you that answers their baseless objections:

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus

That is a quandary. I will ask a question that will outline the quandary.

Why have Christains not yet accepted the Messiah, the Father Baha'u'llah promised by Christ?

Consider the answers that you give, will reflect the same reasons Jews have used to reject Christ. Thus why would you have good reasons and they do not?

I can also offer readings to show baseless objections.

Thus the quandary that is this OP.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes it does happen everywhere and I see Ego is our greatest veil to enlightenment.

I see we have been capacity to subdue ego in preference to service to all others. This is definitely a core principle of every Faith, that has come from God.

Ego is our darkness, I see that is what the Bible tells us is our hell, it is satan, it is the devil.

The worst affliction of ego, is covenant breaking. It is what the Bible calls the Anti Christ. There is no greater spiritual disease. A key thought here is one is not an anti Christ if they have not chosen to accepted Jesus as the Christ. (That is applicable to all Messengers) Thus what I am saying is that a person is not an Anti Baha'u'llah because they have not accepted Him.

To put that in perspective.

Some of Baha'u'llah's worst enemies were not the 'Anti Christ', it was His half brother that became that, his ego knew no limits.

This is one way Bahaullah puts it;

"My captivity can bring on Me no shame. ... That which can make Me ashamed is the conduct of such of My followers as profess to love Me, yet in fact follow the Evil One. They, indeed, are of the lost."

That to me is the danger of ego it becomes the wolf is sheep's clothing.

And the same guys figured it was Baha'ullah who had the huge ego. I'm happy not to have to take sides. Glad I don't believe in messiahs, seems like just so much unnecessary trouble for you guys. Always on the defense, always on the offense. Prepared for war. Anyone with any inkling of affectionate detachment would just drop it. Why? Ego is just too strong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thats not what I meant brother.

At the time of Jesus, there were many others who claimed to be "Messiah".

Of course Rome killed them for sedition.

It happened again. That is this OP

RegardsTony

 

[Vinayaka]

Sure, that's the case with some, but the Messiah has already come. He healed the sick and raised the dead and resurrected to prove his credentials.

Certainly somewhat more believable than the guy whose only claim to messiah-hood is that he says, "I am the messiah!"

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahaullah did not:

• have a Converse with G-d
• in which G-d appointed him a Messenger of G-d
• and gave a reference to such Converse.
• No such claims have been made in Kitab-i-Iqan in straightforward and unequivocal terms.

It is the Bahais who imply and ring the bells unauthorized from G-d. Bahais don't appoint one a Messenger of G-d, it is G-d who does.
Right, please?

Regards

Baha'u'llah makes it very clear.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

 

[metis]

Sure, that's the case with some, but the Messiah has already come. He healed the sick and raised the dead and resurrected to prove his credentials.

But raising the dead, healing the sick, and resurrection are not prerequisites for being a "messiah", of which there were numerous ones mentioned in the Tanakh.

Even the likes of Aquinas understood that if one took a literal translation of these predictions, then Jesus couldn't be "the Messiah". Instead, he felt that there were some errors within the Tanakh that allowed for Jesus to fit that role.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And the same guys figured it was Baha'ullah who had the huge ego. I'm happy not to have to take sides. Glad I don't believe in messiahs, seems like just so much unnecessary trouble for you guys. Always on the defense, always on the offense. Prepared for war. Anyone with any inkling of affectionate detachment would just drop it. Why? Ego is just too strong.

Why would one drop the world's future?

That would be to drop our humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Why would one drop the world's future?

That would be to drop our humanity.

Regards Tony

Well that was another quick and abrupt topic shift.

The world's future is that it will end. It may be 10 years, 100 years, 10 000 years, or millions of years. That part is obvious. The messiah type religions are all slowly losing ground to more reasonable approaches like atheism or agnosticism, some faster than others.

 

[metis]

The messiah type religions are all slowly losing ground to more reasonable approaches like atheism or agnosticism, some faster than others.

IMO, the importance of Jesus is more what he taught than what he was. He said "I came to serve, not to be served" and to "love one another" that is the essence of his teaching that I find so appealing, and he's certainly not the only one who taught as such.

 

[Vinayaka]

IMO, the importance of Jesus is more what he taught than what he was. He said "I came to serve, not to be served" and to "love one another" that is the essence of his teaching that I find so appealing, and he's certainly not the only one who taught as such.

He's not the only one for sure. In fact, it's what most reasonable people figure out for themselves. JFK said something similar in his famous speech ... 'not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'. When I taught, after Xmas each year when the kids are all about. 'What did you get?" i'd have a discussion on 'What did you give?'

My granddaughter, aged 10, has decided that for her birthday party next year, all she wants is cash. She has her charity all picked out (a children's hospital here), and will ask her friends to bring cash instead of a gift. So if a 10 year old kid can figure it out, I'd hope a 'messiah' or two should be able to.