Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[kjw47]

Israelites/Jews of Jesus time did not follow Moses' Torah in punishing or attempting to kill Jesus. Did they, please?
Anybody, please

Regards

They followed the written law as best as they could at all times. But for Jesus, whom they hated. Tried him the first night of his arrest. Law was a man had 7 days to build a defense.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This is the sort of arrogance and presumption that gets believers of Judaism in trouble with Christians. The New Covenant, etc., is clearly foretold in Jeremiah. Ignoring it and/or making other excuses about that just makes us Christians wonder if you've ever read your own scriptures.

The New Covenant in Jeremiah has not come yet, and will not come until the end of days. It promises that the law will be written upon our hearts. Well, the law is NOT written upon our hearts. Children must still be taught right from wrong. And don't give me some spiel that it is different for Christians. I know very well that Christians justify all sorts of things from stealing office supplies to sleeping with their gf's and bf's. Even fact, even when taught, Christians violate God's will as much as anyone else. Secondly, it says that all will know God. Do all know God? Certainly not. No, none of this will happen until the World to Come.

Skeptic

: "At Matthew 16:28, Jesus tells his disciples: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” The people who were standing there all died eventually, and they never saw Jesus return to establish a kingdom."

Response: Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

Response to the response:
You are shifting the goal posts. Mark 9:1 "the kingdom of God" can be interpreted more than one way (which is what you do.) However, Matthew 16:28 is quite clear that it refers to the "Son of man coming in his kingdom." This is no figurative kingdom, but a direct alluding to the Son of Man coming in the book of Daniel.

So basically, you don't get to weasel out of this. If you believe these words were actually spoken by Jesus, then you are forced to agree that Jesus truly believed that there were those standing there that would see him coming as the earthly, worldly Davidic messiah who would reign from Jerusalem.

The problem is, it never happened. Indeed, 2000 years later, it still hasn't happened, and that is a serious drawback for Christianity.

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes it has been sent in many ways in many ages.

I see decay is built into this creation, thus religion is and will always always be a cycle to be renewed.

The rejection brings about the required change, that is the organic aspect of faith. In this age we have been told that great change will happen. We have always been given a chance before the event unfolds.

The warnings have been given and as you noted have been ignored. The world today will not be the world of tomorrow. Materialistic tendency has tipped the balance and there is not turning back.

What can be said to those that do not want to hear? Nothing really.

Regards Tony

Most of the world never knew anything about him or his supposed god.. Only a handful in the middle east and perhaps the roman empire.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most of the world never knew anything about him or his supposed god.. Only a handful in the middle east and perhaps the roman empire.

Most of the world still doesn't. The title of the thread is chock full of assumptions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I see decay is built into this creation

Not really decay, but a cycle of death and rebirth, as you yourself said later, constant renewal.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Most of the world never knew anything about him or his supposed god.. Only a handful in the middle east and perhaps the roman empire.

That is a choice, we're they, or are they looking?

Also the Revelation becomes part of the mind of man, even if they do not realise this.

Thus all higher hopes and aspirations are born from the potential given in that Message. Knowingly or unknowingly.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Most of the world still doesn't. The title of the thread is chock full of assumptions.

Thus you have identified one of the main reasons people have missed the Messiah, they are not looking, even when they become aware that it may have happened.

Regards Tony

 

[Milton Platt]

That is a choice, we're they, or are they looking?

Also the Revelation becomes part of the mind of man, even if they do not realise this.

Thus all higher hopes and aspirations are born from the potential given in that Message. Knowingly or unknowingly.

Regards Tony

someone who lived on the other side of the earth and didn’t even knew the middle east existed, much less some jewish guy in the desert, wouldn’t be “looking” for him. That is an absurd thing to say.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

someone who lived on the other side of the earth and didn’t even knew the middle east existed, much less some jewish guy in the desert, wouldn’t be “looking” for him. That is an absurd thing to say.

I am one of those, but there were people looking all over the world.

Some people are very spiritual. It's not absurd as we have been warned to watch. That warning was to be spread to every continent before the event.

It is all recorded to read and it is our choice to awaken our souls.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This I found interesting

"According to Indian mythology, there are 4 Yugs

Satyug - consists of 172,800 years (1+7+2+8) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

TretaYug consists of 1296000 years (1+2+9+6) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

DwaparYug consists of 864000 years (8+4+6) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

Kaliyug consists of 432000 years (4+3+2) = 9

8. In Hinduism, Rishi Vyas created 9 Purans, 108 MahaPuran (Upnishads). Mahabharat has 18 chapters, Geeta has 18 chapters, Bhagavat has 108000 verses. The sum of individual digits of each of these numbers is 9.

9. Our festival "Nava Rathri" literally means, and is practically celebrated for, 9 nights, and it signifies the 9 forms of the Goddess.

In the Baha'i Faith Baha, the name of Baha'u'llah totals 9

Source - The Endless Chasm: The Amazing Number Nine...

Regards Tony

 

[Milton Platt]

I am one of those, but there were people looking all over the world.

Some people are very spiritual. It's not absurd as we have been warned to watch. That warning was to be spread to every continent before the event.

It is all recorded to read and it is our choice to awaken our souls.

Regards Tony

So you say.....nonetheless, people cannot ‘know’ what they have no way of knowing, Tony. It’s as simple as that. Entire civilizations have come and gone without ever having heard of the Jewish god or the splinter sect of Christianity.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thus you have identified one of the main reasons people have missed the Messiah, they are not looking, even when they become aware that it may have happened.

Regards Tony

As I said before, one cannot reject something they've never heard of. Your thread title says 'reject', which is the second false assumption in that title, the first being that there exists a messiah.

 

[Vinayaka]

This I found interesting

"According to Indian mythology, there are 4 Yugs

Satyug - consists of 172,800 years (1+7+2+8) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

TretaYug consists of 1296000 years (1+2+9+6) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

DwaparYug consists of 864000 years (8+4+6) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

Kaliyug consists of 432000 years (4+3+2) = 9

8. In Hinduism, Rishi Vyas created 9 Purans, 108 MahaPuran (Upnishads). Mahabharat has 18 chapters, Geeta has 18 chapters, Bhagavat has 108000 verses. The sum of individual digits of each of these numbers is 9. That link didn't mention the Baha'i Faith. It's mostly just grade school Math.

9. Our festival "Nava Rathri" literally means, and is practically celebrated for, 9 nights, and it signifies the 9 forms of the Goddess.

In the Baha'i Faith Baha, the name of Baha'u'llah totals 9

Source - The Endless Chasm: The Amazing Number Nine...

Regards Tony

There are 9 innings in a baseball game as well. Using a number to draw metaphysical connections is at the height of seeing stuff that doesn't exist. That link omitted the Baha'i faith. It's mostly just grade school math.

 

[Spartan]

The New Covenant in Jeremiah has not come yet, and will not come until the end of days. It promises that the law will be written upon our hearts. Well, the law is NOT written upon our hearts. Children must still be taught right from wrong. And don't give me some spiel that it is different for Christians. I know very well that Christians justify all sorts of things from stealing office supplies to sleeping with their gf's and bf's. Even fact, even when taught, Christians violate God's will as much as anyone else. Secondly, it says that all will know God. Do all know God? Certainly not. No, none of this will happen until the World to Come.

Tsk tsk... So, Jeremiah foretells of a New Covenant, and Ezekiel 36 tells of a time when God will put his Spirit - his Holy Spirit - into people to change their hearts of stone, and some centuries later what happened? The Jews bring us the New Covenant of Jesus Christ and God is putting his Holy Spirit into believers - fulfilling both prophecies. And God is writing his laws on the hearts of men in the New Covenant. And you still miss it all!

Response to the response:
You are shifting the goal posts. Mark 9:1 "the kingdom of God" can be interpreted more than one way (which is what you do.) However, Matthew 16:28 is quite clear that it refers to the "Son of man coming in his kingdom." This is no figurative kingdom, but a direct alluding to the Son of Man coming in the book of Daniel.

So basically, you don't get to weasel out of this. If you believe these words were actually spoken by Jesus, then you are forced to agree that Jesus truly believed that there were those standing there that would see him coming as the earthly, worldly Davidic messiah who would reign from Jerusalem.

The problem is, it never happened. Indeed, 2000 years later, it still hasn't happened, and that is a serious drawback for Christianity.

Nonsense. I stick with what I previously presented.

You as an unbeliever don't get to tell Christians how and what they should believe. First, you're mistaken about a lot of it and second, you can't understand it spiritually. Like 1 Corinthians 2:14 notes, "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am one of those, but there were people looking all over the world.

That is just not true. In Taoist/Confucionist China, there was no concept of a Messiah whatsoever. Nor in the Americas.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Tsk tsk... So, Jeremiah foretells of a New Covenant, and Ezekiel 36 tells of a time when God will put his Spirit - his Holy Spirit - into people to change their hearts of stone, and some centuries later what happened? The Jews bring us the New Covenant of Jesus Christ and God is putting his Holy Spirit into believers - fulfilling both prophecies. And God is writing his laws on the hearts of men in the New Covenant. And you still miss it all!

I stand by what I said.

{quote]You as an unbeliever don't get to tell Christians how and what they should believe. ]/quote]
Actually I usually leave Christians alone. You believe in God (albeit a muddled monotheism) and are good moral folks. That is all that God asks of Gentiles.

However, this is a debate board, and the issue has been brought up for discussion. And so I'm simply participating. If you don't like people disagreeing with you, perhaps debate isn't for you?

First, you're mistaken about a lot of it and second, you can't understand it spiritually. Like 1 Corinthians 2:14 notes, "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Hogwash. This is one of the most presumptive claims of Christianity.

Anyone should be able to read the texts, with the help of scholars, and determine the truth.

Christians don't have any sort of special supernatural help in discernment. Discernment is a form of wisdom gained from a natural talent honed by many years of experience.

It is not some sort of miraculous "gift of the holy spirit." If it were the "holy spirit" that you gain from conversion to Chrisitanity, you would not have thousands of denominations split by competing interpretations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you say.....nonetheless, people cannot ‘know’ what they have no way of knowing, Tony. It’s as simple as that. Entire civilizations have come and gone without ever having heard of the Jewish god or the splinter sect of Christianity.

I see it in another light. It depends if we choose to become motivated to find out who we really are.

We start at the knowledge of what creates a strong and loving families and what breaks that bond. Even if we do not yet see it, that knowledge is the knowledge of God and all the Messages given by all the Messengers.

The knowledge is the image we have been created in. The journey starts when we look to find out who we are. If we find one Messenger we have in reality found them all, but again it takes more personal reflection to see beyond what is self.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As I said before, one cannot reject something they've never heard of. Your thread title says 'reject', which is the second false assumption in that title, the first being that there exists a messiah.

That is fair, the title of this thread was reflecting another post, to which the intent was to broaden the scope of vision.

Maybe the other post could have used neglect, or failure to which this post would have also used.

Personally I see in my case it was a failure, a neglect of my spiritual self.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are 9 innings in a baseball game as well. Using a number to draw metaphysical connections is at the height of seeing stuff that doesn't exist. That link omitted the Baha'i faith. It's mostly just grade school math.

9 is lots of fun. I see all letters and all numbers have a far deeper meaning in creation.

I see we waltz through life ignorant of many things, all taken for granted.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is just not true. In Taoist/Confucionist China, there was no concept of a Messiah whatsoever. Nor in the Americas.

We both have no real way to prove that.



Except.... Maybe there is a stronger case that people were expecting all over the world.

Regards Tony