Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Skywalker]

You are taking a strange detour again.

The evidence that Jesus was a legend is doubtful and even most unbelievers don't believe it. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

8. Zoroaster’s followers expect a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshyant or Savior, who is to come in 2341 CE and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age. I have been able to confirm that this is true to some extent: a return is expected in 2341 CE, to start a golden age; the details on age 30 I have found nowhere. Whether this future Deliverer would indeed be Zoroaster himself again is indeed something that has been interpreted, but later Zoroastrian texts think that the person will be of the line of Zoroaster, not Zoroaster himself. [Wat.Z, 94-5]

There is no significance between Zoroaster and the age of 30. Even the belief about a future Messiah in Zoroastrianism is different from Christianity. The belief in his second coming is not a consistent doctrine in their faith. The second coming of Jesus is believed by both Catholics and Protestants. The Bible is not vague about the second coming of Jesus. Jesus said in John 21:22, " If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

 

[Skywalker]

You're not making sense. Anyone can have pure motives.

I'm not saying anything about mental illness. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.

There is no evidence that Jesus was motivated by mental illness. If he had mental illness, he would have been a troubled person. That is different from Jesus having pure motives. The only way Jesus could have had pure motives was for him to be God. Jesus and Mental Health: Was Jesus Insane?

Was Jesus Insane?
When asking “was Jesus crazy?” you have to consider possible symptoms. A common symptom of mental illness is delusion, particularly delusions of grandeur. Many paranoid schizophrenics will at times believe they are someone famous or important: a Nobel Prize winner, the President of the United States—even Jesus himself. If misbegotten beliefs like this are so common among the mentally ill, who’s to say Jesus too wasn’t suffering from psychosis? Jesus and mental health is a highly debated topic.

What distinguishes Jesus from the mentally ill is the lack of accompanying symptoms. Psychotics who ask “was Jesus insane?” often have an inflated sense of their own importance, yes, but they also exhibit emotional distress, like irrational anger, paranoia, or anxiety; difficulty thinking logically; and/or antisocial behavior, like dressing strangely or neglecting personal hygiene. The mental health of Jesus exhibits none of these traits, so the Jesus and mental health theory doesn’t hold much merit.

In fact, the gospels attest to a well-adjusted and emotionally balanced human being. Jesus befriended people from all walks of life, inspired love in his compatriots, and had deep compassion for his fellow man. He spoke eloquently and had a firm grip on reality, and he responded to people’s hardship with empathy. In short, there’s nothing in his behavior to indicate he was mentally disturbed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The evidence that Jesus was a legend is doubtful and even most unbelievers don't believe it. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus



There is no significance between Zoroaster and the age of 30. Even the belief about a future Messiah in Zoroastrianism is different from Christianity. The belief in his second coming is not a consistent doctrine in their faith. The second coming of Jesus is believed by both Catholics and Protestants. The Bible is not vague about the second coming of Jesus. Jesus said in John 21:22, " If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

By using a lying source you just admitted that the evidence for Jesus being legend is very good.

You really should learn how to judge whether a source is valid or not. Just because it agrees with you does not make it valid.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no evidence that Jesus was motivated by mental illness. If he had mental illness, he would have been a troubled person. That is different from Jesus having pure motives. The only way Jesus could have had pure motives was for him to be God. Jesus and Mental Health: Was Jesus Insane?

You should say that you do not know of any evidence that Jesus was mentally ill. This is not my argument, I am just trying to help you to make a more correct post.

By the way, it might be a good idea to learn what is and what is not evidence when making statements about evidence.

 

[dybmh]

Why could any human being pay the wages of sin, which is eternal separation from God?

He wasn't paying the wages of sin. It wasn't substitution. imo.

 

[Skywalker]

By using a lying source you just admitted that the evidence for Jesus being legend is very good.

You really should learn how to judge whether a source is valid or not. Just because it agrees with you does not make it valid.

The concept of communion not existing in Zoroastrianism is a documented fact. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

9. His religion had a eucharist. Not that the Zoroastrian scholars are aware of, though I would not doubt that the Z people had communal meals like every religious and political group in ancient times. And since there is no atonement in Zoroastrianism, how can there be a Eucharist? The closest I can find to this is the fact that in later Zoroastriaism, there is a rite involving the intoxicating haoma plant, which may or may not have been known of and/or endorsed by Zoroaster [Yam.PB, 418] and involves a daily rite of consumption with no “eucharistic” significance (i.e., it is not Zoroaster’s body or blood, etc.).

Communion in Christianity is based off of atonement. Jesus said do this in remembrance of me. It's doubtful if the communion in Zoroastrianism had any equivalent. Their communion didn't symbolize Zoroaster's body or blood.

 

[Skywalker]

He wasn't paying the wages of sin. It wasn't substitution. imo.

Disagreeing with that belief doesn't mean that the idea of a human dying for our sins makes any sense or lines up with the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The concept of communion not existing in Zoroastrianism is a documented fact. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus



Communion in Christianity is based off of atonement. Jesus said do this in remembrance of me. It's doubtful if the communion in Zoroastrianism had any equivalent. Their communion didn't symbolize Zoroaster's body or blood.

Your source as usual is insane. That does not affect the fact that the Jesus story is almost certainly legend on bit.

Please try to find a valid source. Every time that you use a lying source you in effect admit that you are wrong. There is very little enjoyment in debating with someone that does not put up a fight at all.

 

[Skywalker]

You should say that you do not know of any evidence that Jesus was mentally ill. This is not my argument, I am just trying to help you to make a more correct post.

By the way, it might be a good idea to learn what is and what is not evidence when making statements about evidence.

Psychologists expressed doubts about Jesus being mentally ill. They are a reliable source of mental illness. Jesus and Mental Health: Was Jesus Insane?

Jesus and Mental Health
The evidence that Jesus believed he was the Son of God, the Messiah, cuts two ways: While it establishes that he did indeed believe himself to be divine, it also raises questions about his sanity. If no other rabbi of the time felt compelled to make similar claims about his divinity, it begs the question: was Jesus crazy? What’s the connection between Jesus and mental health?

Of course, the person to ask is a psychologist. Strobel visits Gary Collins, a clinical psychologist (Ph.D., Purdue University) who taught at the Trinity Evangelical Divinity School for twenty years. He has written well over 100 articles for scholarly journals and has written 45 books on psychological and theological themes, including Christian Counseling: A Comprehensive Guideand touches on the question “was Jesus crazy?”

Was Jesus Insane?
When asking “was Jesus crazy?” you have to consider possible symptoms. A common symptom of mental illness is delusion, particularly delusions of grandeur. Many paranoid schizophrenics will at times believe they are someone famous or important: a Nobel Prize winner, the President of the United States—even Jesus himself. If misbegotten beliefs like this are so common among the mentally ill, who’s to say Jesus too wasn’t suffering from psychosis? Jesus and mental health is a highly debated topic.

What distinguishes Jesus from the mentally ill is the lack of accompanying symptoms. Psychotics who ask “was Jesus insane?” often have an inflated sense of their own importance, yes, but they also exhibit emotional distress, like irrational anger, paranoia, or anxiety; difficulty thinking logically; and/or antisocial behavior, like dressing strangely or neglecting personal hygiene. The mental health of Jesus exhibits none of these traits, so the Jesus and mental health theory doesn’t hold much merit.

 

[Skywalker]

Your source as usual is insane. That does not affect the fact that the Jesus story is almost certainly legend on bit.

Please try to find a valid source. Every time that you use a lying source you in effect admit that you are wrong. There is very little enjoyment in debating with someone that does not put up a fight at all.

What evidence is there that this copied Christianity? Correlation doesn't equal causation. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

There is also a ceremony calls the yasna or veneration, which does involve the use of bread (topped with clarified butter) and a drink made from ephedra, pomegranate twigs, and milk (strained through a filter made from the hairs of a white bull), but evidence indicates that this ritual was established as part of liturgical reform in Zoroastrianism in the post-Christian era [Yam.PB, 449-50].

 

[Subduction Zone]

Psychologists expressed doubts about Jesus being mentally ill. They are a reliable source of mental illness. Jesus and Mental Health: Was Jesus Insane?

Now that is a bit better. Please note I never argued that Jesus was mentally ill. But how do you know that that is a reliable source? But I will grant that it is far better than your usual sources.

 

[Skywalker]

Your source as usual is insane. That does not affect the fact that the Jesus story is almost certainly legend on bit.

Please try to find a valid source. Every time that you use a lying source you in effect admit that you are wrong. There is very little enjoyment in debating with someone that does not put up a fight at all.

There is evidence that Zoroastrianism is legend that copied the Bible. Are the ideas of Jesus and Christianity borrowed from Mithra and Zoroastrianism? | GotQuestions.org

establishing when Zarathustra lived is only the first step. Next, we have to establish what he actually taught (as opposed to what modern Zoroastrianism claims he taught). The only source for Zarathustra’s teachings is the Avesta, and the oldest copies we have of the Avesta date from the 13th century AD. The late date for this collection of writings lends no support whatsoever to the idea that Christians borrowed from Zoroastrianism (the oldest copies of the Jewish Scriptures that we have today date centuries before Christ, and the oldest complete manuscripts of the Christian Scriptures we have date from the 4th century AD).

This looks to be another case of skeptics citing a pre-Christian religion, assuming that the post-Christian form of the religion (which we know about) has remained faithful to the pre-Christian form of the religion (which we know nothing about) and speculating that the similarities between the religion and Christianity are due to Christianity borrowing from the religion in question. It’s a philosophical argument without solid evidence to back it up. Have we any good reason not to suppose that it was Zoroastrianism which borrowed from Christianity and not vice versa? We know that Zoroastrianism borrowed freely from the polytheistic faiths of the region in which it became popular. Mithra, for example, was a Persian god who found a prominent role in Zoroastrianism. Mithra’s Hindu counterpart is the god Mitra.

 

[Skywalker]

Now that is a bit better. Please note I never argued that Jesus was mentally ill. But how do you know that that is a reliable source? But I will grant that it is far better than your usual sources.

i believe it's a reliable source because it came from professionals.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What evidence is there that this copied Christianity? Correlation doesn't equal causation. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

Correct, correlation only shows that they could have been inspired by other mythological sources. But it does appear that many of Jesus's preachings were not original, as many Christians believe. And the evidence that Jesus is legend comes mainly from the lack of historical support when it should exist.

Let's put a twist on it. There is no evidence that the Jesus story is not evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is evidence that Zoroastrianism is legend that copied the Bible. Are the ideas of Jesus and Christianity borrowed from Mithra and Zoroastrianism? | GotQuestions.org

You need to work harder. When you use a known dishonest source you only hurt your arguments.

Try again.

 

[Skywalker]

Correct, correlation only shows that they could have been inspired by other mythological sources. But it does appear that many of Jesus's preachings were not original, as many Christians believe. And the evidence that Jesus is legend comes mainly from the lack of historical support when it should exist.

Let's put a twist on it. There is no evidence that the Jesus story is not evidence.

What was not original about what Jesus taught? In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus gave sublime moral teachings like love your enemies. If the apostles made up a religion, why would Jesus have said be ye perfect? Striving for perfection and loving your enemies don't seem to be what people who would make up a new religion would teach.

The historical evidence for Jesus is that multiple people wouldn't hallucinate the same thing. Jesus was a magician who made people hallucinate about His miracles.

All sorts of excuses and challenges have been offered to contradict or explain away the miraculous accounts of Jesus’ life. Among the weaker challenges offered is that Jesus was some sort of a magician who was able to get people to hallucinate about His miracles. In other words, countless people were all seeing Jesus do things that were not really happening and it was Jesus who was perpetrating this deception upon them. Let’s take the account of where Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish (Matt. 14:19-21). Though it is certainly possible to have one person hallucinate about this, how do the critics account for five thousand people hallucinating about the same thing at the same time? Or how about the resurrection? How do the critics explain the accounts of Jesus appearing to the disciples with holes in His feet and hands? How did Jesus get numerous people to believe a lie about His resurrection (a mass hallucination?) after the Romans, who were experts at executions, not only flogged Him severely, but also beat Him, and hung Him on a cross for six hours and then pierced His side where water and blood came out? How did Jesus do that?

Some have alleged that Jesus went to the far east and learned many “tricks” and techniques for influencing people as well as controlling His bodily functions so as to appear dead. Of course, this kind of theory lacks any evidence at all and is nothing more than conjecture and guesswork. Besides, the Bible says in Luke 2:51 that Jesus from a very young age continued in subjection to His parents. This means that in that culture, Jesus was obligated to stay with His earthly parents and care for them in accordance with the Ten Commandments which stated that He was to honor His mother and father. His obligation was to be there and care for them in their old age, not abandon them for some journey to the far east in order to learn techniques of mind control.

Hallucinations are misperceptions, false interpretations of reality. It is certainly possible for a single person to have a hallucination about something. But, how do you get two, three, or four people to misperceive reality and claim to see the same thing at the same time — like Jesus’ resurrection? That is very difficult to do. In fact, have you ever heard of a group of people succumbing to a mass hallucination and all of them believe the same thing?

 

[Skywalker]

You need to work harder. When you use a known dishonest source you only hurt your arguments.

Try again.

No source is perfect. All writings come from fallible people.

What evidence is there for a holy grail in Zoroastrianism? Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

10. He had a sacred cup or grail. If he did, the Zoroastrian scholars don’t know about it. Not that it matters — the idea of Jesus having a sacred cup or grail is a product of medieval legend, not the Bible!

If there is evidence, the holy grail isn't biblical teaching.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

There is no evidence that Jesus was motivated by mental illness. If he had mental illness, he would have been a troubled person. That is different from Jesus having pure motives. The only way Jesus could have had pure motives was for him to be God. Jesus and Mental Health: Was Jesus Insane?

The only way you could know if Jesus had pure motives or not (especially since he died 2000 years ago) would be to crawl into his brain. And as the majority of humans on earth don't even believe in Jesus it really becomes a moot point.

 

[Skywalker]

The only way you could know if Jesus had pure motives or not (especially since he died 2000 years ago) would be to crawl into his brain. And as the majority of humans on earth don't even believe in Jesus it really becomes a moot point.

Jesus showed no signs of being a mentally ill person. Psychologists said he wasn't paranoid or schizophrenic.

 

[rational experiences]

Facts.
Data.
Numbers.
Human science.

Science thinks about a nuclear reaction. Reacted. Where he visions memory cooling created the image.

Quoted as a scientist lying I am safe by image vision.

Gets irradiated brain burnt prickling effect. When God stone Ki g owning all powers and jewels. O earth throne sitting inside it's heavens converted.

The heart core of earth.....not any living result released UFO radiation.

What the image never was by vision.

Chemical blood mineral balances changed as water by mass was ground evaporated arising with earth radiation release.

What you got taught. How your living life got image recorded as it lost its owned water and the living recording of life remains in heavens.

Evidence a machine did it.

Machines transmitting to machines sends all body images to machines.

Images not ours are used in stories falsely.

Common sense. Designer of science fake. Reaction was never safe. The future was cooled. The reaction past heated and destructive.

Use some self ability to think for yourself instead of being indoctrinated