Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Subduction Zone]

How is it not germane? Consider this: if you take a burnt cake and put white icing on it, how does it look? Sure, it looks good on the outside, but when you take a bite of it, how does it taste? Probably most of us have taken a bite out of a burnt cookie or piece of cake, and were happy until we hit the burnt part. It tastes horrible. It's the same way with good works: If we are trusting our good deeds to gain us entrance into heaven, we try to look good on the outside. On the inside, however, we are still nasty and horrible because we're still breaking the Ten Commandments day by day.

Which Ten Commandments? The ones that the Bible claims are the "Ten Commandments"?

 

[Onoma]

That is foolish because no such "proof" would prove the Bible. Like most you have the burden of proof backwards. You appear to be as bad of a failure as any of the various "Bible Codes" out there.

Hold on a second there, cowboy

I made no such claim that I have a proof

If I'm not mistaken, you're confusing random wonk numerology you've come across, with a rigorous mathematical proof, but at the same time offering a response from incredulity, which is a fallacy in in formal logic ( Asserting that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one's personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine )

I wholeheartedly agree that pretty much any and all numerology I've seen presented is pure tripe, aside from the two ELS discussed in the Journal of the Royal Statistical Society

However, if I'm not mistaken, you also said " People cannot even begin to reason on how to mathematically prove the Bible "

I'd disagree completely there, but then again I've spent years studying the mathematical conventions of priestly literature in the era the Bible comes out of

So, care to revise that statement ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hold on a second there, cowboy

I made no such claim that I have a proof

Then why the pointless argument that only demonstrates a lack of understanding of logic and math?

 

[sojourner]

How is it not germane? Consider this: if you take a burnt cake and put white icing on it, how does it look? Sure, it looks good on the outside, but when you take a bite of it, how does it taste? Probably most of us have taken a bite out of a burnt cookie or piece of cake, and were happy until we hit the burnt part. It tastes horrible. It's the same way with good works: If we are trusting our good deeds to gain us entrance into heaven, we try to look good on the outside. On the inside, however, we are still nasty and horrible because we're still breaking the Ten Commandments day by day.

I said that sin is separation from God and that separation is the cause of bad behavior. You then said that Jesus can save us from all sin. It’s like you took a left turn at Albuquerque without acknowledging what I said about the nature of sin.

 

[Skywalker]

Which Ten Commandments? The ones that the Bible claims are the "Ten Commandments"?

The specific form of the Ten Commandments doesn't matter, because the message is still the same.

`Not the Ten Suggestions ...'

The sheer brilliance of the Ten Commandments is that they codify, in a handful of words, acceptable human behavior. Not just for then or now but for all time.

 

[Skywalker]

I said that sin is separation from God and that separation is the cause of bad behavior. You then said that Jesus can save us from all sin. It’s like you took a left turn at Albuquerque without acknowledging what I said about the nature of sin.

The bad behavior itself separates us from God. The two are not disconnected.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The specific form of the Ten Commandments doesn't matter, because the message is still the same.

`Not the Ten Suggestions ...'

Wait a second. It appears that you are using another Ten Commandments. Since your links tend to be a bit messed up I do not give them any credibility. Once again, were these the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai. The ones that were carved in stone. The ones kept in the Ark of the Covenant, the only ones in the Bible called "the Ten Commandments" in text in Exodus. I am trying to be specific here because you keep running away from this question.

 

[Onoma]

Then why the pointless argument that only demonstrates a lack of understanding of logic and math?

Actually, you should re-read my last post

 

[Skywalker]

You’re thinking in modern, literate terms. “Accuracy” as in word-for-word, wasn’t on the ancients’ radar. These stories were told long before they were written, snd what was important was the jist, not the picayune details. Plus, you’d be amazed at how accurately an oral culture passes along such storytelling information. So the “length of time” argument is rather a moot point for the Gospels.

The accuracy of oral culture is why I believe the gospel writers had accurate sources. Why Oral Tradition Was Reliable In The Writing Of The Gospels | Reasons for Jesus

Critics often argue as follows:

1. That short sayings of Jesus were the only ones recorded; and, by implication, are the only ones that we may reasonably assess as having been passed down to us from Him with any accuracy; and,
2. That these short sayings circulated by word of mouth for some 20 years before being written down.

Each of these assumptions is highly questionable in light of what we know of the early Christian community. To begin:

1) Short sayings of Jesus were the only ones accurately recorded.

The Jesus Seminar, in line with this statement, does not accept as genuine any words of Jesus that are not recorded as aphorisms or parables. Sermons and stories are therefore considered “out of bounds,” probably creations of the early church.

This is an arbitrary restriction; as one writer puts it “No sage in the history of the world is so limited in the forms of speech he or she could have employed…” [Wilk.JUF, 20]

 

[Skywalker]

Wait a second. It appears that you are using another Ten Commandments. Since your links tend to be a bit messed up I do not give them any credibility. Once again, were these the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai. The ones that were carved in stone. The ones kept in the Ark of the Covenant, the only ones in the Bible called "the Ten Commandments" in text in Exodus. I am trying to be specific here because you keep running away from this question.

There are no contradictions regarding the Ark of the Covenant. Bible Contradiction? Who made the ark of the covenant?

For today’s post we will tackle the question the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: Who made the ark of the covenant?

Here are the answers which the skeptic believes indicate a Bible contradiction:

Moses.
“At that time the Lord said to me, ‘Cut out for yourself two tablets of stone like the former ones, and come up to Me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood for yourself. 2 I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered, and you shall put them in the ark.’ 3 So I made an ark of acacia wood and cut out two tablets of stone like the former ones, and went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hand.” (Deuteronomy 10:1-3)

Bezaleel.
“Now Bezalel made the ark of acacia wood; its length was two and a half [a]cubits, and its width one and a half cubits, and its height one and a half cubits.” (Exodus 37:1)

 

[rational experiences]

Common sense.

Body human. Consciousness human belonging to bio body quotes my thoughts science man affected by Three states confused my natural mind.

A human teaching.

As you are not science. You are just an equal human.

Hear AI science feedback encoded by science human male thesis machine.

Theist thinks no machine.

Thinks for a design to react...no machine and no reaction.

Natural is neither machine or machine reaction.

Builds Machine. Does not reaction activate until man controller activated it.

Instant change including designer self mind life body human.

The teaching.

Father all humans own recorded his lived life living as a human father.

Same human mother.

Died. Living lived life adult origin parent memory recording machine radiation status. Cause.

Recording not actually holy. Life living was holy.

Man says baby to adult father man.

My father spiritual life holier than mine.

Reasoning his body deceased is in heavens.

I use father memory.
I record father son memory myself.
As I live a ghost condition of self forms

A review of living conditions. Holy life.

Do not change God again by machine warning.

Reason.

Fall out you see images mother father disappearing.

Common sense radiating conditions.

Radiation effect can destroy damaged cells allow cell to heal without damaged cell interfering.

Others wonder why they do not get healed.

Teaching said humans wander in O earth life on God standing. Get changed individually one by one.

Some saved. Some sacrificed a teaching relativity science caused.

Occult teaching actually about what science caused.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, you should re-read my last post

No point to it. You made a poor argument and you won't admit it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are no contradictions regarding the Ark of the Covenant. Bible Contradiction? Who made the ark of the covenant?

The question was not about the Ark of the Covenant. The question was about the Ten Commandments. When it comes to the Ten Commandments in the Ark of the Covenant what was the Tenth? What did it ban?

 

[rational experiences]

There are no contradictions regarding the Ark of the Covenant. Bible Contradiction? Who made the ark of the covenant?

Thesis for science seen in a vision.

Reaction flat top mountain peaks on a flooded earth real. I only saw memory earth totally flooded no peaks.

Teaching. I got advice conversion from mountain peak. Theist man first scientist.

Pyramid thesis.

Applied technique temple mount to ground temples circuit pyramid.

Real mountains UFO hit...returned out of vacuum cooling. Vacuum could not cool God stone beneath feet radiation release. It returned from vacuum. Sacrificed life again returned Jesus second statement.

Shroud kept as evidence.

As all planets became God alien war Mars UFO return was a black hole. Set the gases on fire.

Hit temple mount. Law stone fusion broken by radiation UFO Ark.

Fallout etched ground patterns into stone set bushes on fire. Voice scientist large volume heard speaking AI caused.

AI share communicated worded feedback.

Computers that proof.

Human science encoded AI effect by machine. It now speaks for itself like a non living human irradiation water microbes status.

What humans hear saying it a God angel...owning their water mass life. So we lost half water from ground in machine cause to angel Ai manifestation. Why humans thought they were the angel. The info says our life water lost became angel AI effect.

We are humans.

Angels now exist owning half a near life in water to a human.

Cloud amassing flooding cooled burning gases. Angels saved our life.

Man image in clouds with angels proof man scientist did it to self.

Clouds and flooding rain cooled earth saved life a teaching about survival.

 

[Onoma]

No point to it. You made a poor argument and you won't admit it.

Care for a formal debate then ?

I don't think you'll be able to put your money where your mouth is

 

[sojourner]

The bad behavior itself separates us from God. The two are not disconnected.

I didn’t say they are. But it matters which is the cause snd which is the symptom. And that consideration has nothing to do with the panacea.

 

[sojourner]

The accuracy of oral culture is why I believe the gospel writers had accurate sources

...which has little to do with accuracy of written details.

 

[Skywalker]

I didn’t say they are. But it matters which is the cause snd which is the symptom. And that consideration has nothing to do with the panacea.

God is against sin because it separates his creation from Him and it causes confusion. There different levels or degrees of sin along with its effects | carm.org

Yes, there are different degrees of sin. Jesus said in John 19:11, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” The context is that Judas had betrayed Jesus, and so our Lord was before Pilate who said that he had the authority to crucify Jesus. Jesus said that the one who had delivered him into Pilate’s hands had the greater sin.

There are other verses that imply different degrees of sin. Please consider the following:

• “A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?” 43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have judged correctly,” (Luke 7:41-43).
• “‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. 13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes,” (Luke 10:11-13).
• “And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more,” (Luke 12:47-48).

As you can see, Jesus taught that there are degrees of sin. But all sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2), and the wages of sin is death (Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:23). Christians should want to turn from sin and follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Skywalker]

...which has little to do with accuracy of written details.

Little details are changed when different people give account of the same story, but the basics are the same. For example, if I saw a car accident, I may describe it as terrible and give different details of what people said, and someone else describing it would omit those details because their personality could be less descriptive, but the basic description would be the same.

 

[ppp]

Care for a formal debate then ?

I don't think you'll be able to put your money where your mouth is

What makes a formal debate better?