Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Skywalker]

Too bad that you cannot find a valid source that supports that claim. Remember, sources based on history only. No apologetics, also known as Liars for Jesus allowed.

The original autographs aren't different from later Bibles. Did God Only Inspire the Original Autographs of the Bible?

Consider that when Matthew quotes Isaiah 7:14 in Matthew 1:23, he alters the text somewhat:

• Isaiah 7:14 — “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
• Matthew 1:23 — “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”

Although the wording is different, and a different number of words used, we clearly see that Matthew 1:23 is just as inspired as Isaiah 7:14. Matthew faithfully conveys the meaning of Isaiah 7:14. Likewise, the King James Bible faithfully conveys the meaning of the autographs, and its words are thus inspired.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The original autographs aren't different from later Bibles. Did God Only Inspire the Original Autographs of the Bible?

You really do not know that. In fact when it comes to the Old Testament the evidence seems to say that is not the case. For example the height of Goliath grew over the years. Stories always grow with the telling. I would find a source to support me, but since you refuse to find valid sources why should I?

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

No, you did not. You might have meant to but this is what you said:

"That's right, everyone makes up their own interpretation, this is why we have 35 denominations who all disagree with each other"

No editing, that is a quote of your entire post.

The others are non denominational, they're not worth mentioning

 

[Subduction Zone]

The others are non denominational, they're not worth mentioning

You appear to be in your own "denomination" making you one of those "not worth mentioning". The sheer number of denominations is testimony that the Bible is not clear and that it appears to have endless contradictions. The denial of various Christians does not make those contradictions go away.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

LOL!! Oh my, no, no, no. I used to be a Christian and one of the reasons that I am no longer a Christian is that I probably understand the Bible better than you do.

And please, when you want to make a definitive claim please link and quote your source when applicable.

If you study the topic you will find that most martyr stories are just church tradition. They are not historical at all.

The record of Christian martyrs, was destroyed by the executioner, the Vatican. Roman Catholicism murdered tens of millions over the centuries, nobody knows the true number since the Vatican always burns the evidence and destroys any records of their atrocities.

I don't believe that you were ever a Christian, if you were then that would mean that Jesus is a liar. Jesus said, "all that the Father has given Me shall come to Me and I shall lose none and nobody can pluck them out of My hand".

If you were a Christian, then that means that someone plucked you out of Christs hand and Christ was just another liar.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

You appear to be in your own "denomination" making you one of those "not worth mentioning". The sheer number of denominations is testimony that the Bible is not clear and that it appears to have endless contradictions. The denial of various Christians does not make those contradictions go away.

God wrote the Bible for His elect only, it is foolishness to the rest. They will never make any sense of it, the Bible is a spiritual message and only those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them will ever understand the bible. The rest will remain spiritually blind.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The record of Christian martyrs, was destroyed by the executioner, the Vatican. Roman Catholicism murdered tens of millions over the centuries, nobody knows the true number since the Vatican always burns the evidence and destroys any records of their atrocities.

I don't believe that you were ever a Christian, if you were then that would mean that Jesus is a liar. Jesus said, "all that the Father has given Me shall come to Me and I shall lose none and nobody can pluck them out of My hand".

If you were a Christian, then that means that someone plucked you out of Christs hand and Christ was just another liar.

How convenient. Then you know nothing about supposed martyrs by your own claim.

And no, Jesus does not need to have been a liar. Your logic is off. Jesus did not write the gospels. In fact none of them were written by eyewitnesses. Do you remember C.S. Lewis's Liar, Loon, or Lord? He forgot the most likely "L" The Jesus stories appear to be mostly Legend.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God wrote the Bible for His elect only, it is foolishness to the rest. They will never make any sense of it, the Bible is a spiritual message and only those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them will ever understand the bible. The rest will remain spiritually blind.

Then God is a liar. Are you sure that you want to claim that? For example we know that there was no Flood of Noah. The Bible does not say that God wrote it. You are misinterpreting a verse and I know which one it is.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

That's right, Jesus did establish His Church and every single Christian will inherit eternal paradise. The Church has been growing ever since He established it, today it's growing faster than ever before.

Your problem with the Church is, you have a false view of what the Church is. The Church is not a denomination or ethnic group, it's a body of believers from every age. We are all one body with Christ as our head.


I can understand why 90% of Christians will get a rude shock on judgement day. They thought that making a profession of faith would give them a ticket to heaven, but it's not that simple.

I don't know where you get your info, Pilgrim but somebody has to bring you back to reality. I guess that will have to be me.

Pew Research estimates that 40 million people are expected to convert to Christianity between 2010 and 2050, and 106 million people are expected to leave Christianity during that period (resulting in a net loss of 66 million).

Christian population growth - Wikipedia

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

No doubt you'll find some cockamamie way to rationalize this fact in your mind as well. But there it is in black and white: Christianity is going extinct. Fine job your god is doing of maintaining his church that Jesus supposedly set up. I told you, the real God is a deist God. He doesn't give a damn whether we believe in Jesus or not. That's why He didn't bother to leave behind any proof for Jesus. Proof positive right there in black and white.

 

[Skywalker]

You really do not know that. In fact when it comes to the Old Testament the evidence seems to say that is not the case. For example the height of Goliath grew over the years. Stories always grow with the telling. I would find a source to support me, but since you refuse to find valid sources why should I?

The height of Goliath is not a contradiction because it's a small detail that's not important.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The height of Goliath is not a contradiction because it's a small detail that's not important.

Sorry, you do not get to claim that. You could say that endlessly. The Bible is simply to full of flaws to call it "the word of God". As a Christian you should know that, it is blasphemy to say the least since you are claiming that God cannot keep track of the details.

 

[Skywalker]

Sorry, you do not get to claim that. You could say that endlessly. The Bible is simply to full of flaws to call it "the word of God". As a Christian you should know that, it is blasphemy to say the least since you are claiming that God cannot keep track of the details.

Different writers use different details to describe things. Goliath's Height: How Tall Was He? • Bible Study With Randy

To summarize, we have seen that Goliath’s height depends on the size of both the cubit and the span, and which reading of the text is the most reliable. This means that Goliath’s actual height could have been anywhere between 6 feet 1 inch and 9 feet 9 inches. Before continuing, when seeking the truth about Goliath’s height, we should caution ourselves concerning our own prejudices. For some, a person 9’9″ is out of the realm of reality, and they would therefore be inclined to the “more reasonable” reading of 6′ 9″ – 6’1″. Others, however, raised on the traditional story of David defeating the giant Goliath, would almost consider it a sacrilege to suggest that Goliath might be in the 6 foot range, as opposed to the 9 foot range. Whichever way our prejudices run, they do not help us get at the truth of Goliath’s height. Only by examining the evidence, which includes the height of people in the ancient world, the relative lengths of a cubit and span, and the textual evidence for the most reliable reading, will we be be able to come to a conclusion that seems plausible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Different writers use different details to describe things. Goliath's Height: How Tall Was He? • Bible Study With Randy

And there you go admitting that you are wrong by using a bogus source again.

The fact is that the Bible changes its story again and again. Using liars for Jesus is merely admitting that one is wrong.

 

[Skywalker]

And there you go admitting that you are wrong by using a bogus source again.

The fact is that the Bible changes its story again and again. Using liars for Jesus is merely admitting that one is wrong.

There are conclusive Bible answers for how tall Goliath was. Goliath's Height: How Tall Was He? • Bible Study With Randy

Hay’s “internal evidence” includes examining the text which involves a discussion of Goliath’s armor and the fact that he is never mentioned as a giant. This was interesting and I agree with Hays to a point on this. However, while 1 Samuel 17 does not call Goliath a giant, there are two other passages that infer he was a descendant of the Nephilim. Joshua 11:22 speaks about the conquest of the land, especially focusing on the Anakim (descendants of the Nephilim, see my other related posts here and here). This passage states that the Anakim only remained in Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod (all Philistine cities!). It should be recalled that Goliath is from Gath. The description of his tall stature certainly suggests a connection with the descendants of the Nephilim. Furthermore, 2 Samuel 21:15-22relates four stories of Philistines who are killed by David’s men. Each one is said to be related to the “giant” (the word is “rapha” which is the singular of Rephaim). This reference is to Goliath and here he is associated with the Rephaim, who were also considered to be descendants of the Nephilim. Therefore, although the story in 1 Samuel 17 may not refer to Goliath as a “giant,” it seems certain that other passages indicate he was a descendant of the Nephilim. However, I still believe the “external evidence” that Hays produces argues for the “4 cubits and a span” reading. Goliath could be a descendant of the Nephilim without being over 9 feet tall. Considering the average height of an Israelite at this time, someone who is roughly 6 1/2 feet would certainly be an intimidating presence.

Finally, in spite of all of the fantastic (trick) photography on the internet, no remains of people who were 9-10 feet tall have ever been found in the Middle East. These pictures of so-called Nephilim are dubious (see photo above on left). Since the average height in the ancient Near East was between 5 feet and 5’3,” and since archaeology seems to confirm this (at least to this point), and since the textual evidence leans toward the reading of “4 cubits and a span,” I conclude that Goliath was most probably on the taller side of the 6-foot range, as opposed to the 9-foot range of the MT.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are conclusive Bible answers for how tall Goliath was. Goliath's Height: How Tall Was He? • Bible Study With Randy

Then why can't you find any? Once again, liars for Jesus are not legitimate sources.

 

[Skywalker]

Then why can't you find any? Once again, liars for Jesus are not legitimate sources.

Goliath was on the six foot range, not nine foot, because it's doubtful if the Nephilim existed.

 

[Skywalker]

And there you go admitting that you are wrong by using a bogus source again.

The fact is that the Bible changes its story again and again. Using liars for Jesus is merely admitting that one is wrong.

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. The Bible doesn't say that Abraham was justified by works before God. Bible Contradictions: Was Abraham Justified by Works or Faith?

Skeptic's Argument:
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory;
-Romans 4:2

This section suggests that Abraham was not justified by work, but the next section says he was.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
-James 2:21

This is an obvious contradiction, therefore the Bible is wrong.

People who don't take the Bible seriously typically don't finish reading the verses they put under scrutiny.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
-Romans 4:2

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Goliath was on the six foot range, not nine foot, because it's doubtful if the Nephilim existed.

Sure Nephilim existed. Here's proof, lol

 

[Skywalker]

Sure Nephilim existed. Here's proof, lol
View attachment 47295

It's not important whether nephilim are were the descendants of the sons of God and daughters of men. Some people believe they were and other don't, but it's not the focus of the Bible. Battle over the Nephilim

When we run into difficult passages like this one, we must first ask ourselves if a key salvation issue is at stake (and it is not). Then we must determine if some interpretations violate other clear Scripture passages or if the Bible’s authority is at stake. Does the position come from the pages of Scripture, or does it rely on secular ideas for support? For example, those who seek to add millions of years into the Genesisaccount of creation are trying to force secular ideas into the text, so it is crucial for us to stand against every such attempt to undermine the Bible’s authority.

 

[Skywalker]

This is simply a huge non sequitur.

Zoroastrianism existing before Christianity doesn't mean that Christianity copied Zoroastrianism. That's like saying correlation equals causation. Evidence would be the Bible quoting Zoroaster.