Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

[Ben Dhyan]

You do realise, that psychological treatments of patients, are given 75%-90% subjectively. That because it inv listening to the patients, and giving advice that are often subjective.

If their brain is firing neurons, it is conceptualizing. Listening involves the brain firing neurons! The deep meditation state is free from all thought/conceptualization.

 

[Pogo]

Look, if your brain is firing neurons, it is conceptualizing. You can do math without firing neurons in your brain.

No, it is firing neurons, there appears to be an emergent property that we observe with some patterns that we call consciousness, but we know little beyond that. Has little to do with "concept" except that it appears we can create what we call concepts in some patterns of neuronal firing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Just low frequency EM waves due to brain activity. Totally physical as far as anybody knows.

Your intuition is on the right path, when the mind is still and free from thought, the brain and body begins to resonate with the cosmic background/zpe/spirit/quantum vacuum/ether/dark energy/etc

 

[YoursTrue]

If I see the Sun, then I see the a star; what I don't do, is that I don't equate the Sun with Ra or Helios or Surya, and so on.

So why would I equate the Universe with God?

And Panetheism or not, it is still invented by humans, regardless if you equate the Universe with God or with some other imaginary dudes.

hmm, I thought about that and I do wonder how or why a person would equate the universe and everything with God.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, it is firing neurons, there appears to be an emergent property that we observe with some patterns that we call consciousness, but we know little beyond that. Has little to do with "concept" except that it appears we can create what we call concepts in some patterns of neuronal firing.

Correct, that was a mistype, I have corrected it.

 

[gnostic]

From memory, so when you are awake and conceptualizing/thinking, the mind is in Beta, say 15 to 40 hz.
Day dreaming is Alpha 8 to 14 Hz
Dreaming and meditation Theta 4 to 7 Hz
Dreamless sleep and deep meditation 1 to 3 Hz

ok, that good.

but how does any of that, have anything to do with your “divine reality“ and “spiritual realms”?

It doesn’t.

I am not denying mathematics being abstract model of logic, representing the real world with equations.

the brain waves don’t prove ”divine reality“ & “spiritual realms”, as these are just as conceptualised and abstract.

Maths are useful in many areas. your divine & spiritual reality aren’t reality at all.

 

[gnostic]

There is no direct evidence of a singularity, period.

the CMBR doesn’t point to singularity, but it does point to the specific era in time (prior to the CMBR), when the universe was extremely hot and dense opaque plasma.

Singularity…may be, may be not. We don’t have enough data yet, to presume one way or the other. So we don’t really know.

it like with the matter about the universe being eternal or not. We simply don’t know. We would require more evidence & data, before we can decide.

The question, is why do you quite insistently what to be a mystery or unknown, to be fact, when it is really isn’t?

 

[Pogo]

Your intuition is on the right path, when the mind is still and free from thought, the brain and body begins to resonate with the cosmic background/zpe/spirit/quantum vacuum/ether/dark energy/etc

The DNC speechifying is way more coherent than this. I haven't heard resonant frequencies in a while, thanks for the chuckle.
Feel free to believe this, but no, this is so far from science, that the only commonality is random combinations of letters.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

ok, that good.

but how does any of that, have anything to do with your “divine reality“ and “spiritual realms”?

It doesn’t.

I am not denying mathematics being abstract model of logic, representing the real world with equations.

the brain waves don’t prove ”divine reality“ & “spiritual realms”, as these are just as conceptualised and abstract.

Maths are useful in many areas. your divine & spiritual reality aren’t reality at all.

Ahh, but it does, things like expanded awareness/out of body awareness exist as a subjective experience. The theory is that the body and mind resonates as one with the cosmic background/zpe/spirit/etc.. How it does this is not understood but I have read articles by Roger Penrose and Hammeroff, that the microtubules of the axons of the neurons resonate at cosmic background wavelengths and somehow results in spiritual type experiences.

And then there are one's own subjective reality that is beyond imagination.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

the CMBR doesn’t point to singularity, but it does point to the specific era in time (prior to the CMBR), when the universe was extremely hot and dense opaque plasma.

Singularity…may be, may be not. We don’t have enough data yet, to presume one way or the other. So we don’t really know.

it like with the matter about the universe being eternal or not. We simply don’t know. We would require more evidence & data, before we can decide.

The question, is why do you quite insistently what to be a mystery or unknown, to be fact, when it is really isn’t?

What is a mystery to one may be a fact to another. My life is practically all about discovering what and who I really am in the context of all that is. Everything else is just background.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The DNC speechifying is way more coherent than this. I haven't heard resonant frequencies in a while, thanks for the chuckle.
Feel free to believe this, but no, this is so far from science, that the only commonality is random combinations of letters.

A thinking mind is fine for its purpose, but religion requires a still mind. You will find out when you are ready which is not yet, but perhaps our exchange may lead you to try meditation.

I want no credit when you have your first samadhi experience.

 

[gnostic]

Your intuition is on the right path, when the mind is still and free from thought, the brain and body begins to resonate with the cosmic background/zpe/spirit/quantum vacuum/ether/dark energy/etc

You are mixing a lot of things into one.

The cosmic background referred to radiation (hence CBR) of particles and waves, like the cosmic microwave background (CMBR), or cosmic neutrino background (CνB). Where as neutrinos are lepton particles, like electrons, except that neutrinos have no charge (hence neutral), microwave are photons with that interact with electromagnetic force, and its wave properties, have long wavelength.

These CBR are relic radiation going all the back to the earliest timeline of the Universe. CMBR can be detected and measured, will there are only indirect evidence of CνB.

These cosmic background radiations are not Dark Energy.

And I have to wonder why you would think has anything to do with "spirit", unless you talking about alcoholic beverages? Plus what do any CBR have anything to do with resonating with brain and body?

And how would quantum vacuum or dark energy resonating with brain and body?

You are being absurd.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are mixing a lot of things into one.

The cosmic background referred to radiation (hence CBR) of particles and waves, like the cosmic microwave background (CMBR), or cosmic neutrino background (CνB). Where as neutrinos are lepton particles, like electrons, except that neutrinos have no charge (hence neutral), microwave are photons with that interact with electromagnetic force, and its wave properties, have long wavelength.

These CBR are relic radiation going all the back to the earliest timeline of the Universe. CMBR can be detected and measured, will there are only indirect evidence of CνB.

These cosmic background radiations are not Dark Energy.

And I have to wonder why you would think has anything to do with "spirit", unless you talking about alcoholic beverages? Plus what do any CBR have anything to do with resonating with brain and body?

And how would quantum vacuum or dark energy resonating with brain and body?

You are being absurd.

I was not referring specifically to CBR, but the cosmic background radiation of the zpe/spirit/quantum vacuum/ether/dark energy/etc..

Spiritual energy is omnipresent, dark energy is omnipresent, neither can be detected by science, they occupy the same space so why not the possibility they are just different names for the same energy. It really doesn't matter as the spiritual practice requires ceasing all conceptualization to transcend the ego self reality, but I like to understand the workings behind the beyond body spiritual experience.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The Universe’s divisions of the “mass-energy density” (given in percentages) are based on the Lambda-CDM (ΛCDM) model of the Big Bang theory, in which CDM stands for Cold Dark Matter, and Lambda (Λ) is the symbol denoting the ”Cosmological Constant” that supposed to represent Dark Energy or Vacuum Energy. Dark Matter & Dark Energy have opposite casualties and effects on cosmic gravitation.

ΛCDM was the latest model (the 4th model) to be developed for the Big Bang theory in the late 1990s, to explain the “formation” & “distribution” of large-scale structures (eg molecular clouds, galaxies, galactic clusters, etc) of the universe, explain the abundance of light elements (hydrogen, helium) in the early universe, explain the missing masses - Dark Matter - that keep each galaxy together, and to explain what drive drive the Universe expansion - Dark Energy.

The theoretical astrophysicists & cosmologists have reused Albert Einstein‘s Cosmological Constant (Λ) that was meant to be used with his failed Static Universe hypothesis (1917); the constant was meant to be used with the Einstein Field Equations (EFE) for General Relativity.

Anyway, ΛCDM divide the mass-energy densities between baryonic matters (all the atomic elements in the Periodic Table, and the molecules), Dark Matter & Dark Energy.

if you recall, Einstein was one who developed the Special Relativity’s most iconic equation (1905) - E = mc^2 - was the equation that explained relationship between mass and energy, hence his Mass-Energy Equivalence.

NASA WMAP & ESA Planck were the space missions that measured & calculated these distribution of mass-energy densities. The actual percent for Dark Energy is actually 69% for Planck (2013) and 72.8% for WMAP (2012), not your 95%.

Dark Matter makes up 26.8% (WMAP 22.7%). And baryons 4.82% (WMAP 4.56%).

The 95% come from the sum of Dark Matter & Dark Energy.

Dark Energy is why causing the Universe to expand, and accelerating its expansion. while Dark Matter is what holding galaxies together, including the spiral outer arms rotating at the same speed as the inner arms. Our Milky Way wouldn’t exist if it were for Dark Matter.

Maybe. But let’s be clear; use of the label “dark” in this context is a way of saying “we don’t know”. And the scale of what we don’t know is astronomical.

 

[gnostic]

I was not referring specifically to CBR, but the cosmic background radiation of the zpe/spirit/quantum vacuum/ether/dark energy/etc.

except these are not cosmic background radiation.

Ether and spirit don’t exist.

And spirits are rather ambiguous. People have different opinions as to what a spirit is, and usually have religious connotations that fall under the supernatural category, like fairies and demons.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

except these are not cosmic background radiation.

Ether and spirit don’t exist.

And spirits are rather ambiguous. People have different opinions as to what a spirit is, and usually have religious connotations that fall under the supernatural category, like fairies and demons.

'Cosmic background' is being used as an adjective to imply the omnipresent nature of the spirit/zpe/etc. energies I am referring to. I am not referring to CMBR, got it?

Saying ether and spirit do not exist is plain ignorance. The irony is that the ancients knew of the underlying omnipresent universal energies since for ever, and it is just in relatively recent times that modern science is playing catch up in discovering there are indeed omnipresent energies. The fact that you, as an atheist, has never had a real spiritual experience is not proof it doesn't exit, it just proves you are not very evolved yet and you have lots to learn about what and who you really are in the context of all that is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So why couldn't the Creator still exist at this point? Perhaps the Creator exists in a sixth dimension and overlaps at a single point.

And perhaps undetectable graviton pixies regulate gravity.

Need I remind you that a point has no dimension at all so it is you who believes creation came from nothing?

I "believe" nothing of the sort.

A moving universe and moving Creator in another dimension could overlap anywhere at any time or not at all.

"could" it?
I wouldn't know and I don't think it's wise to pretend otherwise.

Who died and made believers in science the holiest of all thous?

Projecting much?

Maybe you should re-read your post.... You're the one here who is simply imagining things with "perhaps" and "could" and pretending they are valid options.
But you don't know at all. It just reeks of desperation to engage in such unfalsifiable claims indistinguishable from sheer imagination in an attempt to pretend as if your god is plausible.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Hmmm, maybe, maybe not.

It seems rather obvious.

You can't be part of the thing you are creating.
You must necessarily exist independent of the thing if you can exist while the thing doesn't.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Again, you are not paying attention.

I didn't answer, but it seem to go over your head. How many times must I give you the answer.

There are NO "outside of the Universe"...so the Universe isn't expanding into this "outside".​

There is just the Universe. All there are, is the Universe, and it is that Universe that expanding. END OF THE STORY.

...

Trying once more. How do science test these claims? Can you actually link to a scientific site/text that explains these tests?

 

[Brian2]

The point is that it does work better as a Flat Earth verse than a spherical Earth verse. The writers of the Old Testament books likely were flat Earth believers. That does not mean that they were stupid or even ignorant since such basic knowledge was lacking at that time.

Yes they may have been flat earthers but the verse seems to work well for a ball earth also.