Why Didn't the Universe Always Exist?

[rational experiences]

Humans as biology by science terms use personal age a number as self reference. Less age smallest numbers.

We do live constantly returned yet we begin again from microbial sperm ovary sex.

To recount self presence.

Just that advice says biology should not be messing with powers that man say are as old by mass presence bodies as he says in space conditions.

Those body masses he says survived for such and such time.

A man consciously however says I own my females cell. It was female bio cell destroyed transformed to be man.

I survived the transformation.

As I compared my conscious natural reality to survivng spaces maths womb fake mother.

Is the known beware of man's destroyer conscious personality as it's real. Doing false comparisons to biology existence.

 

[Harel13]

*Thread moved to Science and Religion*​

 

[RestlessSoul]

But I'm just going by what theists say because I've heard so many theists say this/use this as an argument for God.



Universal to whom?

Argument for God? None needed, as far as I can see. Either God is everything, or He is nothing; it’s a matter of perception, and of faith.

Universal means, by definition, applicable to all. There is now ‘now’ on Sirius A* that is equivalent to now on Earth. Special relativity tells us this, but so does much of philosophy. Can you point to a given moment and call it now? Can you inhabit it? Of course not. It’s a moving target it has no substance, no measurable quality of it’s own.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well, if you say so. Also, see my reply to Twilight Hue in my post #49.

That answer from authority is unfortunately from bad authorities. Gotquestions are you kidding someone. Its position in the search engine doesn't make it more informative than cult brainwashing that it reflects Why not give a reference from Jim Jones or from Benny Hinn? Same same.

Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

You brought up the universe and God in your OP. Transcendence is a divine attribute according to classical western philosophy. Time must be part of or inside of God. This is an interpretation of first cause. Although I think the term 'First cause' is confusing here is an example that shows transcendence is a prominent feature: Divine Simplicity | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[ChristineM]

Interesting answer. However, according to Jewish and Chrisitan beliefs (although, I'm not really sure about other theist religions), the universe only came into existence only 3.8 billion years ago. And with some fundamental Christians saying only 6 thousand years ago. However, with their belief in an eternal God who has always existed, then the universe should have always existed too.

Well those beliefs are incorrect, the universe came into existence around 13.8 (or was your 3.8 a typo?) billion years ago.

And earth coalesced around 4.55 billion years ago.

There are hypothesis that say our universe is cyclic, i.e. big bang, inflate, contract, big crunch, big bang... and on and on for ever. Professor Penrose did follow this belief but had now dumped the idea in favour of the current BB model.

There are hypothesis that claim a steady state universe for ever, now debunked.

There are hypothesis that say our universe was sporned from an other universe. The hypothesis by Dr Mersini-Houghton is the one i favour.

There is one hypothesis that says there are 10^10^16 universes that we could recognise as universe's and more than that number of universes that we could not recognise or even comprehend.

This is not my belief but takes your point and runs with it. Assuming a god exists (no hypothesis makes such an assumption). And said god is omni everything then there is no reason that said god could have made this universe at any time. Perhaps the other megaillions of universes proposed by professor André Linde are failed trial runs. Perhaps our own universe is also considered a failure and said god continues creating universes in the hope of creating perfection.

 

[Kenny]

I see. However, if God is outside of time and always existed, then how could he have waited until a point in time in existence to decide to create the universe? Why did he wait? Because he would have had to have waited until the 'time' was right, or else the universe would have always existed alongside with God.

That, obviously, is a question that only He can answer. Certainly the quote of "in the fulness of time" has been used or, as you said, "until the 'time' was right".

 

[Vee]

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

The concept of infinity is difficult to grasp when everything we're familiar with has a beginning and an end. Our definition of time and what it represents is based on our mortality. That's one of those things I don't even like to think about because it's just so confusing.

 

[shunyadragon]

I didn't know that the Baha'i Faith believed in the multiverse. Although, I really don't know too much about the Baha'i Faith. However, I would think that the multiverse would be something that people of faith wouldn't believe in because I would think that would require different versions of God.

I gave more a factual view of the nature of the potential infinity of our physical existence in terms of what we know. We do not have any information that would demonstrate any temporal or physical finite nature of our physical existence. Some refer to the various 'Bib Bang' theories to support our our universe had a finite beginning, but the present knowledge demonstrates that our universe began from preexisting Quantum matter and energy or our unverse is cyclic all within a greater Quantum existence that is potentially infinite.

As far as the Baha'i Faith believes our physical existence is an infinite existence Created in the attributes of God eternally with the 'Source' some call God(s).

Humans already have many many different ancient versions of God or Gods with all these diverse and conflicting versions claiming their God is the One True God,

 

[shunyadragon]

The concept of infinity is difficult to grasp when everything we're familiar with has a beginning and an end. Our definition of time and what it represents is based on our mortality. That's one of those things I don't even like to think about because it's just so confusing.

What we are familiar with from the human perspective is 'everything' within our physical existence has temporal beginnings and endings, but our physical existence is 'potentially infinite' with no known temporal nor physical beginning nor ending.

 

[Heyo]

There are hypothesis that say our universe is cyclic, i.e. big bang, inflate, contract, big crunch, big bang... and on and on for ever. Professor Penrose did follow this belief but had now dumped the idea in favour of the current BB model.

The Big Crunch model seems to be in conflict with reality as the mass in our universe doesn't slow the expansion down. In fact, the expansion is accelerating. But Penrose has a proposed solution to that which he calls Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, that doesn't need a Big Crunch.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Interesting answer. However, according to Jewish and Chrisitan beliefs, the universe only came into existence only 3.8 billion years ago.

Just a correction for the Jewish part of what you stated, you statement is not correct.

There is no "Jewish" beleif that is conclusive that the universe came into existance 3.8 billion years ago.

There are a number of different views and calculations that have existed in Jewish history as a way of "speculating" at the age of the universe, "as we know it." (One of which is about 15 to 20 billion, but it is one of several speculative calculations which are not meant to be definative to the point where all Torath Mosheh hold by those particular numbers)

Since none of them are considered to be definative answers the Torath Mosheh position is - whatever number is proven to be "true" or correct based on repeatable results is what we go by. In the absense of a proven number there is nothing wrong with speculation. Yet, again it is only speculation on reality as we know it, not what is beyond what any human would know.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I'm just going by what theists say.

Theists or Christians? Even the Torah begins with "In A beginning".

 

[shunyadragon]

Theists or Christians? Even the Torah begins with "In A beginning".

'A/ beginning? Well 'A' beginning does not necessarily refer to any sort of absolute beginning.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

'A/ beginning? Well 'A' beginning does not necessarily refer to any sort of absolute beginning.

Indeed, it would suggest multiple beginnings, and the one being told is our current story.

 

[MonkeyFire]

And in Pastafarianism there are beer volcanoes in heaven. Which one sounds better to you? Why does anyone need to suffer?

Because God created nature, and nature is as such (to suffer for a short time).

 

[cladking]

There is no reason both God and time can't be eternal. Perhaps they are manifestations of one another. Perhaps one is eternal and created the other to exist eternally.

There are countless possibilities here.

 

[SDavis]

Why didn't the universe always exist? Because since God is supposed to be outside of time and is supposed to have always existed, then how could God have used a point in time to start creation? Any thoughts on this?

"How could God have used a point in time to start creation."
Humans use time to point to this event that or the other. The term a point in time is just a human reference to when God may have done a certain thing - our entire being is based on time - our daily lives are based on time - so we have a tendency to use time as a reference.

Why didn't the universe always exist - there is one scientist who claims there was a universe before this one
There was a universe before ours, says Nobel laureate Roger Penrose: Report
There are those who said the universe had no beginning - it existed before the Big bang singularity
The universe has no beginning: physicists refute the Big Bang theory

Who can say that there isn't more than one universe (there are three heavens spoken of by Paul) in this infinite space. Universes created by God prior to this one. Man can only observe 400 billion plus light years away, past that he can't see anything (so they say)
What's written in Scripture is written for man, for earthlings.

 

[David Davidovich]

If God is beyond time, then everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen are all concurrent. But that doesn't mean that a beginning doesn't exist.

So, yes, the universe always existed. And will always exist. You have always existed, I have always existed, and we always will, according to the premise. Our beginning, middle, and end, have always existed as well.

I see. Well, I know that the Jews believe in the end of the current world order and the coming of mashiach, along with the coming of the olam ha-ba, therefore, are you saying that this situation has always occurred and is still occurring and will always be occurring indefinitely? And what about Hebrew text verses such as Isaiah 65:17? Or do those ancient end times/new world Hebrew texts only have an ancient Jewish fulfillment/application and not a modern day one?

Given this, you have asked "how could God have used a point in time to start creation?"

Because one of the properties of "creation" is that it has a "beginning". "Beginning" is just a label. It's almost like a name.

"Creation" is just another character in the story that is being authored. Just like any character in any story, the author can construct them however they like. The timeline within the story doesn't match the timeline outside the story. The author can be beyond time, and one of the elements of the story can be temporal.

So it's both. Creation has a beginning, and it has always existed.

Well, at least that's a convenient answer.

 

[David Davidovich]

Like


Are you saying God didn’t have the perfect time in all time to come here and create the human race?

But how could that even be possible if God is outside of time?

 

[David Davidovich]

well in my religion they have been sending avatars of angels forever all to suffer once, and then go in eternal ever after of perfect bliss and salvation of descent and ascent repetitively .

Hmmm. So, when was the last time that God has sent an avatar of an angel?

Yup. And we are much younger. Meaning to us it's always existed.

Yawn! I regret replying to your post on page 1.