Why Diplomacy wont succeed in Palestine

[sanjarabdurazak]

A very laudable sentiment. But one shouldn't take one's own conclusions to be universal, because people make lots of different conclusions.

I think you would agree with me that sharing a good thing, message, etc is always appreciated and simply good.

I am just wishing you the good eventhough now I know that this is good and you haven't tried it yet and you may have a different view.

 

[Kirran]

I think you would agree with me that sharing a good thing, message, etc is always appreciated and simply good.

I am just wishing you the good eventhough now I know that this is good and you haven't tried it yet and you may have a different view.

Certainly, if you think people would be helped by their hearing something, tell them.

Although I have had an in-depth look at Islam. Very much so. Considered converting at one point. So I'd say I have tried it.

In any case, none of this means it's OK to go murder a load of Jews.

 

[sanjarabdurazak]

Certainly, if you think people would be helped by their hearing something, tell them.

Although I have had an in-depth look at Islam. Very much so. Considered converting at one point. So I'd say I have tried it.

In any case, none of this means it's OK to go murder a load of Jews.

Well, sometimes I think how come muslims suffer in the blessed land. I feel very sad for those people, then I say there is some (hikmat) wisdom behind it - there is nothing without some purpose. Then on the day of Judgement you will see how perfectly the Lord Almighty willl take care of their deeds and as you are a witness on this day - you will not be able to oppose on that day eventhough now for you is not comprehensible.

You have to be living in the cave or be a deaf and blind not to see what is happening in Palestine. And nobody can stop them. And their deeds are so condemning that even stones will speak. And only Muslim army will have the power to stop them. To stop their attrocities only, I repeat, because they were given so many chances to stop and live in harmony with humanity and never changed. Then it would be the only way. It is just my assumption. Surely the Greatest has the best way. The law of Allah SWT will be established.

 

[Kirran]

Well, sometimes I think how come muslims suffer in the blessed land. I feel very sad for those people, then I say there is some (hikmat) wisdom behind it - there is nothing without some purpose. Then on the day of Judgement you will see how perfectly the Lord Almighty willl take care of their deeds and as you are a witness on this day - you will not be able to oppose on that day eventhough now for you is not comprehensible.

You have to be living in the cave or be a deaf and blind not to see what is happening in Palestine. And nobody can stop them. And their deeds are so condemning that even stones will speak. And only Muslim army will have the power to stop them. To stop their attrocities only, I repeat, because they were given so many chances to stop and live in harmony with humanity and never changed. Then it would be the only way. It is just my assumption. Surely the Greatest has the best way. The law of Allah SWT will be established.

I certainly don't deny the atrocities committed by the State of Israel. But I don't blame all Israelis for it. Remember, most aren't aware of the level of cruelty perpetrated by their government, or believe it is necessary, because this is what the media says. Furthermore, violence isn't the solution to this - Israel is never going to be wiped out.

Hamas is far worse than the Israeli government. Fatah isn't blameless either, but they're a very mixed bunch I think (not that the IsraelI government isn't). If Fatah has acquiesced to an independent state comprising most of the 1967 borders in 2000 they'd be independent on their own land. But that was politically and ideologically infeasible, and Israel knew that.

More and more Palestinians are getting radicalised, be it in Islamism or nationalism.

 

[Flankerl]

But I don't blame all Israelis for it.

He neither, he blames all Jews.

Great people on this Forum. But its okay, let's you remember who the enemy is.

 

[Kirran]

He neither, he blames all Jews.

Great people on this Forum. But its okay, let's you remember who the enemy is.

Cheers for pointing out that distinction. A friend of the family retired in Swansea is of Beta Israel stock, I'll have to tell him off for this.

Who is the enemy?

 

[Flankerl]

Yes, there are varied opinions. So far, it seems to be Israel and "others [who] have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position" versus the rest of the known world.

And if you take on the known world side all the dictatorships and rather questionable states away there are almost none left.
As if the rest of the known world is somehow a good thing.

20 years v. 50 years

Hmm, that's interesting. So, let's say, for the sake of argument, that Lebanon decides to attack the Golan Heights. They succeed, and their army stays there for 25 years until Lebanon decides to given everyone in the Golan Heights Lebanese citizenship. Another 25 years pass, and it is now 2065. So the Golan Heights would rightfully be Lebanese at this point. Is this correct?

Yes that's how it goes in the Middle East.
Syria used the Golan Heights to shell Northern Israel whenever it wanted. Grown up people took it away from them and gave the residents Israeli citizenship if they wanted it.

After the Peace Treaty with Egypt, Syria got the option to get the Golan Heights back on the condition of a Peace Treaty.
Well they didn't want one.

Such is life.


And Lebanon can call itself lucky if it actually exists in 20 years.

 

[Flankerl]

Cheers for pointing out that distinction. A friend of the family retired in Swansea is of Beta Israel stock, I'll have to tell him off for this.

Who is the enemy?

No idea.

Founding member of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK.

No idea who the enemy is.

 

[Kirran]

No idea.

Founding member of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK.

No idea who the enemy is.

That's a bizarre degree of paranoia.

I'm not 100% sure what your point is in posting it though.

Incidentally, can a non-Jew be a Zionist, do you think?

 

[Akivah]

No idea.

Founding member of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK.

No idea who the enemy is.

It might've been his house Elf.

 

[Kirran]

It might've been his house Elf.

Even the Elves are Zionist now? :O

 

[leibowde84]

Remember:

Hamas leaders are firmly Islamic that believe in the Hadith teaching that once land is under Islamic control, it must always remain under Islamic control.
This is one of the facts on the ground. It is not some fringy belief, clearly Servant believes it. It is why so many Palestinian people would rather live and raise their children in violence and poverty than recognize Israel.
Tom

I actually just learned about this (possibly from you) last week. I was disgusted to say the least. I had no idea this was a tenant of Islam. It wreaks of religious militarism.

 

[metis]

I actually just learned about this (possibly from you) last week.

I was the guilty party.

 

[Kirran]

I actually just learned about this (possibly from you) last week. I was disgusted to say the least. I had no idea this was a tenant of Islam. It wreaks of religious militarism.

I'm not sure it's a universally-held tenet. I can't imagine it is.

Either way, it's being used as a part of the justification, because where are the wars of reconquest of Spain, Portugal, North India, Xinjiang, the Balkans, much of Russia etc?

 

[leibowde84]

I was the guilty party.

Sorry about that. Thanks for the info, though. I actually thought about it quite a bit. Can't get my head around anyone thinking this concept is anything but evil. But, to each their own, I guess.

 

[columbus]

I actually just learned about this (possibly from you) last week. I was disgusted to say the least. I had no idea this was a tenant of Islam. It wreaks of religious militarism.

This is not news. Metis mentioned it first in this thread, but even I have known it for years.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

This is not news. Metis mentioned it first in this thread, but even I have known it for years.
Tom

ok.

 

[Flankerl]

That's a bizarre degree of paranoia.

I'm not 100% sure what your point is in posting it though.

Incidentally, can a non-Jew be a Zionist, do you think?

It's only a bizarre degree of paranoia if you aren't from the Middle East and/or aren't adhering to a specific Religion.

Sharks at your beaches? Its the Zionists.
Birds in the air? Its the Zionists.
Rodents give you problems? Its the Zionists.

Note: The term Zionist is usually used when engaging people from outside the Middle East. Inside usually another word is used. This separation exist so that your non Middle Easterners aren't scared away.


My point in posting this? Doesn't it get you thinking what exactly is wrong with people when a leading figure of the community is believing something like that and even goes so far as to share it with the world?


I don't know. Doesn't really interest me to be honest.

 

[Kirran]

It's only a bizarre degree of paranoia if you aren't from the Middle East and/or aren't adhering to a specific Religion.

Sharks at your beaches? Its the Zionists.
Birds in the air? Its the Zionists.
Rodents give you problems? Its the Zionists.

Note: The term Zionist is usually used when engaging people from outside the Middle East. Inside usually another word is used. This separation exist so that your non Middle Easterners aren't scared away.


My point in posting this? Doesn't it get you thinking what exactly is wrong with people when a leading figure of the community is believing something like that and even goes so far as to share it with the world?


I don't know. Doesn't really interest me to be honest.

It does worry me. But a lot of IsraelI politicians are pretty vitriolic about the Palestinians.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

People often think it has to be one side or the other when it really isn't. Both sides have their stances and both have done things they shouldn't have done. Zionists kicking out a lot Palestianians was wrong but some of the Palestianians going about the problem by being violent doesn't help either. More often than not in conflicts, both sides share the blame.