This is purile nonsense Brian "Humans have gifts from God" -- not the kind of Gifts we are talking about ? What Gifts to these humans have that meet the level of "God Like Powers" and what are you defining as "God Like Power" What powers are required to be a God in Brians Book of Angels and Demons ? and why can God not gift these powers to Angels .. raising to the level of Son's of God ..
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Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
This is purile nonsense Brian "Humans have gifts from God" -- not the kind of Gifts we are talking about ? What Gifts to these humans have that meet the level of "God Like Powers" and what are you defining as "God Like Power" What powers are required to be a God in Brians Book of Angels and Demons ? and why can God not gift these powers to Angels .. raising to the level of Son's of God ..
That is not the correct application of "Judge Not" .. It is meant in the literal sense .. actual Judging .. Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock.
There is a difference between A) Having a Belief . .. and B) forcing that belief on others through physical violence "Law" .. render unto Caesar what is his... me what is mine...
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I am not confused .. we agree.
..as you are the one making the accusations, can you please back them up with scripture, yourself?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is easy for Almighty God .. He is able to do all things.
If G-d wishes to reward a person, He causes them to appreciate religious knowledge,
and fear Him .. do you not understand?
It is not about what you or I might believe .. it is about the state of our hearts.
i.e. intention
Brian2
Veteran Member
It sure seems God has given powers to angels that He has not given to us. That does not mean that humans without those powers cannot be sons of God.
You are very much confused my friend. I have not made any accusation on this account .. just asked you a simple question about your God from which you continue to dodge - now claiming that you are feeling persecuted "acused" by the question ?
I asked you what your God thinks .. not what you think .. what part of that simple question has you so confused ? According to your God ... Should we kill the child for the sins of the Parents/Tribe .. or Not .
If you do not know any scripture -do not know about your God .. that is fine .. just say so.
Another confused response -- your brain desperate to deflect from reality before you. No one said God was not able to do all things .. so why are you pretending otherwise .. in some dance of deception and avoidance.
Just because God could bypass Jesus the Judge .. does not mean he will. The Question on the table is how one is put right with God .. how one makes it past Judgement and makes it into Heaven
You said if one is "Righteous" OK .. What does one have to do to seen as Righteous by God .. how is one put right with God ?
"If God wishes to reward - religious knowledge" Clearly he hasn't rewarded you mate .. cause so far you don't have a wit of religious knowledge .. all you do is dodge the question .. seemingly unaware of God's word .. but then go around claiming to know what God does or doesn't do...
Tell me .. how does one become Righteous in the eyes of God ---
Who said that God gave powers to angels doesn't mean human's can not be sons of God .. and why are you pretending someone did .. and answering this made up question from a fantasy conversation in order to avoid addressing the question on the table ?
Define what powers constitutes a God and/or how this is distinguished from an Angel .. and explain why Satan fits into the Angel category.
Well,, ah . . . all ancient religions to one degree or another consider later religions false including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. These Abrahamic religions have such strong tribal identities that are often hostile not only toward each other, but other religions like the view of Islam is toward the Baha'i Faith. Other religions are not often inclusive of other religions. Though Hinduism. and Buddhism overlap to a degree neither for the most part are not antagonistic toward the other but get along.
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Brian2
Veteran Member
God/YHWH created all things, and Satan is one of those things.
YHWH is the only true God, anything else called god is not the only true god.
It was I who said: It sure seems God has given powers to angels that He has not given to us. That does not mean that humans without those powers cannot be sons of God.
Do you think that is unreasonable? Do you want me to quote someone before you accept it? Why don't you accept that YHWH is the only true God when I quote passages from the Bible that tell us that?
Brian .. you are making defacto claims that you can not back up .. You have not the faintest idea who is the True God .. nor the faintest clue if there is only one God .. Let us get that out of the way right from the beginning ..
You make these bold unsupported claims about God . but have no idea how to begin to define what a God is .
Now -- if we are talking about the Bible -- There are many supernatural beings .. some with Extra- Ordinary supernatural powers which - by definition indicate God-hood. Whether or not this is the "Most High" God is irrelevant to the presense of a God .. and your opinion on the matter is worthless so long as you are unable to produce a definition for God -- some indication of what level of Supernatural Power is required for God Status .. and something better than concocted black vs White Paradigm fallacy.
Now as far as the "Most High" God as opposed to the laughable assumed premise fallacy "One True God" not only does the Bible have many supernatural beings .. some of which are Gods .. albeit lesser Gods .. subordinate to the "Most High" YHWH is not the only God Trying to Claim that Title .. and as per Deut 32:8 .. YHWH is a Son of the Most High .. A Son who later usurps EL's Position as Cheif on Earth .. El remains "The Most High" but in the Heavens -- On earth the winner of the Battle between the Sons becomes the Most High .. on Earth.
and once again .. to the question of the Bible .. doesn't care or matter a wit of what you think about the story. The question is what did the Israelites think .. and that is something we know.
The decendants of one Tribe (do we include the Benjaminites ? ) .. and perhaps some others came wandering back .. sans the lost tribes of course.. surely there were Samaritans that remained or came back -- but mostly Judah .. wasn't until well into the Persian Period that anything near strict Monotheism was adopted into this new Religion we know as Judaism .. and during this Transition .. YHWH Changed both his Clothes and Her Spots.
They all believed in the existence of many Gods prior to this point .. and - as the Bible tells us never do leave this belief in many Gods .. and in fact never stop worshiping many Gods .. YHWH had a Wife for his entire Carreer .. Moses down to Babylon .. when the place where YHWH's name resides .. is Destroyed. and with it the Old -- "YHWH" -- YHWH is later reborn and transformed .. but lest we digress
this is where the story ended .. up until recent times .. As it turns out -- The Temple at Jerusalem was not the Only Temple of YHWH .. and the others survived .. one in Samaria (Sumeritans) - One in Edom - but the most interesting one .. the Temple of YHWH in Elephantine, Egypt.
This temple survives until around 410 AD .. is then destroyed by the Egyptians .. but then later the Jews Petition to have the Temple Rebuilt .. one of the requirements is permission from Jerusalem .. the Temple there now Rebuilt . and there are letters back and forth ... permission rejected by the Jerusalem clan but accepted by the Sumeritans.. and gets rebuilt.
So this Temple dated to at least as far back as 650 BC .. predating the Exile .. and pre Exhilic traditions were maintained. .. YHWH still has a wife .. and his sister Anat .. and some other Gods in the Temple .. google it .. and be amazed. as this Tradition is still going in 400BC .. and the boys in Jerusalem are not overly concerned about it .. The Samaritans likely doing the same ..
Moral of the story Brian -- Not only does the Bible tell us the Israelites were raging polytheists their whole career -- The History books tell us exactly the same story.. and the Biblical Archaeology .. the civilization in which the Israelites lived .. and the customs and practices of the peoples around them .. which were much the same as the Israelites ..
YHWH ends up losing the Battle among the Sons of God in the End .. We then have the Real "Messiah" .. a David like Figure who swoops into save the day .. not king of Israel though per say .. but King over Israel. "The annointed one of God" Cyrus the Great ..
The question here being "Which God is doing the annointing" .. and before you fall to the Ground and cry out YHWH > YHWH -- YHWH .. I will say NO .. is not YHWH .. but the picture is murky .. that said I am going to claim that all roads seem to lead to the Uncreated one .. Ahura Mazda .. but some kind of Marduk/ YHWH Fusion with Ahura Mazda Jewish Mysticism is a dualism .. .. YHWH is sometimes the bad guy in the Story .. albeit "The Most High" of sorts .. This Dualism exists in Genesis .. in the primordial tales of other divinities .. also in many of the Stories of YHWH .. the Storm God Stories where he defeats MOT - Laviathan - Tiamat .. same God .. same story .. 3 differnt names .. same primordial Serpent .. Marduk defeats Tiamat .. YHWH defeats Laviathan .. BAAL Defeats MOT.
Which takes is to the identity of the Serpent in the Garden .. a beast who is NOT our good friend Satanial .. The Ha Satan .. as Satan is on God's side .. subservient to God .. one who does God's bidding .. never stepping outside the boundaries of Gods will .. a Son of God .. of Higher divine Status than Jesus ..being the offspring of God and God.. Jesus being that of God and Man... like the hero's of renoun we hear about in Genesis.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Isa 45:5 I am the YHWH, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I don't need to know how to define what a God is.
Were Moses or Elijah or Elisha gods? They had supernatural powers.
Psalm 148:1 Praise YHWH]
Praise YHWH from the heavens;
praise him in the heights above.
2 Praise him, all his angels;
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.
3 Praise him, sun and moon;
praise him, all you shining stars.
4 Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for at his command they were created,
6 and he established them for ever and ever—
he issued a decree that will never pass away.
Nehamiah 9:5 And the Levites—Jeshua, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabneiah, Sherebiah, Hodiah, Shebaniah and Pethahiah—said: “Stand up and praise YHWH your God, who is from everlasting to everlasting.[a]”
“Blessed be your glorious name, and may it be exalted above all blessing and praise. 6 You alone are YHWH. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.
7 “You are YHWH God, who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and named him Abraham. 8 You found his heart faithful to you, and you made a covenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girga****es. You have kept your promise because you are righteous.
We know what the Bible tells us above and we know that many or even most Israelites went after other Gods, of which the Bible tells us they are nothing.
YHWH remains the same from everlasting to everlasting.
Psalm 102: 18Let this be written for a future generation,
that a people not yet created may praise YHWH
19 “YHWH looked down from his sanctuary on high,
from heaven he viewed the earth,
20 to hear the groans of the prisoners
and release those condemned to death.”
21 So the name of YHWH will be declared in Zion
and his praise in Jerusalem
22 when the peoples and the kingdoms
assemble to worship the YHWH.
23 In the course of my life he broke my strength;
he cut short my days.
24 So I said:
“Do not take me away, my God, in the midst of my days;
your years go on through all generations.
25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.
27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.
28 The children of your servants will live in your presence;
their descendants will be established before you.”
Why does it matter what Israelites thought when it is what God tells them that is the truth, and they eventually understand.this is where the story ended .. up until recent times .. As it turns out -- The Temple at Jerusalem was not the Only Temple of YHWH .. and the others survived .. one in Samaria (Sumeritans) - One in Edom - but the most interesting one .. the Temple of YHWH in Elephantine, Egypt.
It looks like you analyze the Bible through bits and pieces you pick up in history books, and are willing to interpret the Bible through this other information and are willing to declare that the Bible is not true because of your interpretations which contradict the Bible completely.
Ear tickling stuff true, and people in these days want their ears tickled rather than believe the Bible.
2Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Brian - you are off the page... the Bible had nothing to do with the claim that you do not know who God is .. or about God .. such that you can make the defacto claims you were making about God. The Bible is a book . you don't know if the contents about in that Book about God ... nor any other Book .. are representative of God .. None what so ever..
So you missed the boat by quoting Isaiah .. then missed it again .. as I stated "Now Within The Bible" which was your clue that now we are talking about the God(s) of the Bible... my comment .. was that 1) there are many Gods in the Bible 2) The Israelites believed in the existence of many Gods - believed in the same Pantheon as the peoples around them .. embedded in their culture .. such that when the Song numbr 82 is being Sung in the Temple of YHWH - The Israelites in the Temple - and everyone else from all the Nations from as far away as India - that might wander by .. know what the Council of EL is know who the "Sons of the Supreme one" are --- and it isn't referring to Humans .. earthly Rulers..
Not only do these folks know what the terms mean - They know the whole background story .. whats going on in the Story. And what Story is that Brian .. what is the Story of Psalm 82 .. Who does YHWH defeat .... and condemn to death -->> and what is going on here .. What is this Court and where is it located ..
and it doesn't matter a wit if you don't know the Story --- because they do .. and what they think matters in this equation .. what you think does not.. NOR - What the Pseudepigrapha Author of Isaiah thinks .. which is a huge problem with your passage but that is another story .. needs not enter in.
Then you talk about Cherry Picking .. projecting your failings onto me .. Think again Brian ... I am not the one desperately trying to ignore scripture .. I do not deny what Isaiah Wrote .. or what is Written in Genesis .. YHWH's name being used for the God of the Patriarchs .. I address these things head on. I am not the one in wild denial Brian .. that the Bible talks about Many Supernatural Beings .. who are .. by any reasonable definition "Gods" or at least Demi -Gods .. or just call them divinities with heavy supernatural Powers .. it matters not --- You are singing Henotheism not Monotheism .. a belief in a Supreme God who presides above lesser divinities .. hiding behind a disingenuous inabiity to define your God .. or what it is that you believe in.
The rest of this nonsense .. painfull.
Elijah -- supernatural Powers .. and disingenuous oblivion .. Moses .. really ?
Were either .. through force of will - of their own volition able to do the Parlor Trick .. NO ... that is not how their powers are presented .. unlike our Friend Satanial
and second .. we are talking a continuum here .. like from Zygote to Human .. at some point on the back end there is no Human .. then somewhere along the way a human exists .. You were asked previously .. Quantify .. where along the line do we go from Angel .. who presumably has some supernatural abilities .. far more than Elijah or Moses however .. and when do we claim God Status.. which we no longer need to define .. other than to state it is before "Super God" status -- The Most High .. at the other end.
Was a painfully pathetic question mate .. sorry to say -- shows that you have not thought much about your belief... or the questions of the day - just raging around trying to deflect and deny .. strange tactics now including disingenuous oblivion.
and what was the point of posting the Happy Song about the greatness of YHWH .. 148 .. is a good one similar to 82 YHWH be praised .. Chief God on Earth in the midst of other divinities. exactly what we would hope for at a Pagan Temple of YHWH .. which brings us full circle to a question you previously avoided ..in your cherry picked adventure ... just looking for Biblical References here ... never mind the YHWH Temple i Elephantine .. Tell me about my adventure in a Temple of YHWH in 900 BC round the time of the Great King Solomon .. Explain to me what the Male Temple Prostitutes are for .. Serious Question outside of your horror .. I understand the function of the Female temple Prostitutes in the House of YHWH .. but not sure what the males were for .. were the women having ritual sex as well ? or -- was there buggery ! .. or Both ?
Tell me about the Asherah Poles in an around the complex .. and what the Asherah Standing Stone was for .. and apparently other Gods from time to time
and last but not least .. that high place out back .... what did we do there .. when not sacrificing sheep .. and in need of a favor from God Yahu of the Shasu.
Seems like you cherry picked over some good parts Brian
This is not about what Almighty God is able to do for you --- as painfull as that may be --- this is about what You must do, or not do, in order to be righteous in the eyes of the Lord.
"Do you understand ?" What part of this is about what you must do .. and not what God must do ... did you fail to understand ?
Now that we got that out of the way .. Tell me what one must do .. .or not do .. to be righteous in the eyes of God. You want to be righteous in the eyes of God do you not Muhamu ? I am sure it was you who proscribed such state of being.
I don't think this question is so complicated .. hard to understand.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Is that the essence of your lesson?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
One needs to clean their heart of major sins, to start with i.e. the intention to avoid them
Good deeds annul bad deeds .. such as caring about other creatures/human beings, and their welfare.
..a big topic, but we can't run before we can walk.
Was like pulling teeth .. but we have ignition !! -- >> and we will take one small step for humanity .. before we are able to walk, run and eventually Fly Brother Muhamu.
I agree completely--that our Lord HeyZeus... advised not committing the "Major Sins" -- and very much like that distinction .. as Matt 5 - first part of sermon on the mount - the Christos outlines severity of Sin.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"
19 Therefore, whoever breaks[d] annuls of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Helping and carring for the poor and disadvantaged .. those imprisoned .. definitely scores some brownie points .. according to the Logos .. emmissary by which God's word is received .. as opposed to the heretic fundamentalist pentecostals and their "Speaking in Tongues" trying to usurp the position of the Logos.
Brother M you have done well in discovering "The Will of the Father" - Matt 7:21 along with the Heresy of Idol Martin and the "Free Pass" ideology. That there is some free pass through Judgement .. and that works do not count .. that Sola Fide is for fools --according to Brother James -- "Faith Alone is dead and useless" "Even Demons have Faith"
but let us include the "Royal Command" -- according to James in this discussion .. and the only Command that matters accordingto Jesus .. Matt 7:12 " do not do to others what you hate - This rule sums up the Law and the Prophets" --- aka "the Golden Rule" .. in both positive and negative forms. A rule our Lord learned as a youngster on the knee of the Previous Priest of the Order MelchiZedek .. Rabbi Hillel.
and now you have something to think about.
If one does not believe in God(s) .. I agree one does not need to know how to define what a God is .. but, if one is claiming God does this .. God thinks that .. there is no God but this .. then one needs to be able to define what on earth they mean by the term "GOD"
We know that some author writing under the name of one of the disciples -- "technically" Pious fraud but was an acceptable practice- tells us that God is One. So "What the Bible Tells us" in this case, has absolutely no bearing on the meaning of the Divine Pantheon described in Psalm 82. The claim that it does .. simple falsehood.. unsupportd falsehood in this case .. not even bothering to try to claim why it should matter.
We know what the Bible tells is about the Israelite beliefs .. that they believed in a Divine Pantheon .. even when worshiping only the Most High of that Pantheon "YHWH" Which never happened as far as we know .. but assuming they did from time to time. YHWH was worshiped along with other Gods .. and in conjunction with other Gods .. had a consort named Asherah .. queen of Heaven .. which is fitting for the King of Heaven... That is what the Bible Tells us .. and Religion in general during that time in History .. long prior to the transition to Monotheism