Why do Christians worship Mary?

[mr.guy]

It's not my definition, if you don't like it, contact Webster.

I've not complained about the definition, but you're horribly messy application of such. In the guise of pseudo-inquiry, you've done little more than bait all here with a "Nope. The dictionary says adoration is worship. Your worshipping practically everything and everyone you like". No doubt that took some pretty deep reflection and effort on your part to craft this thread and participate therein. Not.

Evidently quite critical, as the Christian god is always referred to as a male

Still not a direct answer, is it? I can tell you, i get so thrilled at such dodges. Really. It's touching that you're completely unwilling to muster up the effort to reply directly and relevantly to questions posed within your own thread.

"...considering the power christians tend to attribute to god, how critical an issue would you suppose it to be that god be male to accomplish that task?"

It is not "evident" how critical god's sex is in regards to this isolated task insofar as your response is concerned; you merely state that it is. I'm happy to hear that you're confident enough in your own rationality that you're able to eshew the burden of explaining yourself with any depth or consideration, but all us strugglin' ignorami could potentially benifit from your insinuated higher reason. At your own leisure, of course.

Only stating the obvious.

The obvious, as your responses declare, is comfortably obfuscated from you. Are you able to illustrate how my thinking is lacking in the qualities you so graciously endowed me with? For my own edification, of course.

 

[logician]

Speaking of not answering questions, nowhere do I see any reponse to my comparison of the Mary inpregnation with Roman and Greek gods mating with mortals.

"how critical an issue would you suppose it to be that god be male to accomplish that task?"
"

So god waved his magic "wand" and Mary became pregnant, so that's the story? I guess keeping it asexual does keep the "sin" of sex out of the picture.

"It's touching that you're completely unwilling to muster up the effort to reply directly and relevantly"

And all we get from you is half-baked insults, and red herrings.

 

[Scott1]

Speaking of not answering questions, nowhere do I see any reponse to my comparison of the Mary inpregnation with Roman and Greek gods mating with mortals.

God revealed the truth in "viels and shadows" before the time of Christ... "previous myths" and the like only reinforce my faith.

I guess keeping it asexual does keep the "sin" of sex out of the picture.

A married couple having sex is not a sin.... the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ is the important aspect.

Peace in Christ,
Scott

 

[mr.guy]

Speaking of not answering questions, nowhere do I see any reponse to my comparison of the Mary inpregnation with Roman and Greek gods mating with mortals.

I didn't immediately, nor do i presently, understand the relevancy to the OP. You're welcome to compare as you like to "prove" your points, and i take no issue upon the very rare occasion you may put forth the meager effort, such as it is. You've spewed out quite alot that i've not taken up; are you so desperate for my attention you should like me to review, here in print, your every mewling and belch?

So god waved his magic "wand" and Mary became pregnant, so that's the story? I guess keeping it asexual does keep the "sin" of sex out of the picture.

I guess so.

And all we get from you is half-baked insults, and red herrings.

I don't understand...why would i put such great effort in insult, when you won't even reciprocate with thoughtful answer (to query or insult). I wonder if you can stir yourself from lethargy long enough to kindly point out the aformentioned red herrings; it is only good form to tell me why my points are irrelevant.

p.s. you've also neglected to provide any specific instances and follow up explanations for why the following applies to the context of THIS thread within a BIBLICAL debate:
""How critical is it that you believe something that is impossible, with no scientific evidence, and no independant historical evidence? "

I am especially interested in why this makes a good intermediary argument, when YOU had the opportunity to state as much on the ground floor?

 

[James the Persian]

Wanderer085,

Might I suggest that before you seek to criticise Christianity you actually take the time to find out what it is that Christianity teaches? I've seen you make completely fallacious arguments on three separate issues in just the last couple of pages These being:

That God has a gender - He is referred to as He (so he grammatical gender quip was accurate) but Christian teaching is quite clear that He is beyond gender.

That God impregnated Mary - this is not only false but blasphemous. God did not impregnate the Theotokos at all and Christianity has never taught this.

That Christians worship Mary - which is the whole point of this thread. Any luck tracking down the Greek words I suggested and their equivalents? I doubt it if you can't even get basic teachings right.

At the moment your arguments are mostly against some confection of your own imagination and, rather than making Christianity look ridiculous - clearly your aim - they are making you look like an ignoramus. There is no crime in being ignorant but flaunting your misconceptions as fact rather than accepting that you simply don't understand what you're talking about is highly arrogant. And you have the cheek to wonder about God's humility?

James

 

[MaddLlama]

Speaking of not answering questions, nowhere do I see any reponse to my comparison of the Mary inpregnation with Roman and Greek gods mating with mortals.

It certainly is not the same thing. In the polytheistic mythologies of those cultures, the gods are physical beings that can travel back and forth between our world and thier own, and they can do all the things that humans can do and more. Monothiestic mechanics don't work that way, because god is seperate from humanity. He makes things happen from outside of it.

So god waved his magic "wand" and Mary became pregnant, so that's the story?

If that's the way you want to see it, be my guest.

is half-baked insults, and red herrings.

Starting a debate that involves nothing but your thinly veiled insults of an entire religion based on your complete lack of knowledge is of course going to be met with sarcasm and insults. I'm sure that if you actually were interested in learning something people might treat you differently.

 

[logician]

Wanderer085,

1.Might I suggest that before you seek to criticise Christianity you actually take the time to find out what it is that Christianity teaches? I've seen you make completely fallacious arguments on three separate issues in just the last couple of pages These being:

2.That God has a gender - He is referred to as He (so he grammatical gender quip was accurate) but Christian teaching is quite clear that He is beyond gender.

3.That God impregnated Mary - this is not only false but blasphemous. God did not impregnate the Theotokos at all and Christianity has never taught this.

4.That Christians worship Mary - which is the whole point of this thread. Any luck tracking down the Greek words I suggested and their equivalents? I doubt it if you can't even get basic teachings right.

5.At the moment your arguments are mostly against some confection of your own imagination and, rather than making Christianity look ridiculous - clearly your aim - they are making you look like an ignoramus. There is no crime in being ignorant but flaunting your misconceptions as fact rather than accepting that you simply don't understand what you're talking about is highly arrogant. And you have the cheek to wonder about God's humility?

James

1. I spent more time in protestant churches in my youth than most people do in 2 lifetimes, and could hold my own and better in any "Sunday school" class in any church I attended. Your interpretation of Christianity is just one of many, and you're the one who seems quite arrogant about it being the "official" one, which is certainly not true.

2. Then quit referring to god as the father or him, if it's a generic god.

3. That was a joke son, I don'y believe that god exists, or Mary or Jesus ever existed, and certainly don't believe in virgin births.

4. OK, so you and the "official" church don't worship Mary, but I believe in many countries there are people that do.

 

[MaddLlama]

4. OK, so you and the "official" church don't worship Mary, but I believe in many countries there are people that do.

So what if there are people who do? Aren't you an atheist? What does it matter to you how some Catholics worship?

 

[logician]

So what if there are people who do? Aren't you an atheist? What does it matter to you how some Catholics worship?

So you admit some Christians might worship Mary?

Why can't atheists question the beliefs of any religion?

 

[mr.guy]

So you admit some Christians might worship Mary?

Many here would likely admit to worshipping spongebob.
I doubt you'd be able vindicate your roaming points with this data.

Or can you?

Why can't atheists question the beliefs of any religion?

You've not really questioned, just baited. You do know the difference, don't you?

 

[rhb100]

There has been theological research on the question of whether Christ was born of a virgin by the late Roman Catholic Theologian, Raymond Brown, and others. Taking into consideration this research, it would be interesting to know what percentage of Roman Catholics actually believe in the literal truth of the virgin birth? Are Roman Catholics allowed to vigorously challenge the literal truth of the virgin birth?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

1. I spent more time in protestant churches in my youth than most people do in 2 lifetimes, and could hold my own and better in any "Sunday school" class in any church I attended. Your interpretation of Christianity is just one of many, and you're the one who seems quite arrogant about it being the "official" one, which is certainly not true.

Yes, you spent time in PROTESTANT churches...most of whom know almost as abyssmally little as you do about Catholic and Orthodox Mariology. Jajes was suggesting that you attend one of these church that alledgedly worship Mary and see what the actually teach for yourself.

2. Then quit referring to god as the father or him, if it's a generic god.

Limitations of English make this rather tough.

4. OK, so you and the "official" church don't worship Mary, but I believe in many countries there are people that do.

Yes, but not with the permission of either the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches.

 

[Scott1]

Taking into consideration this research, it would be interesting to know what percentage of Roman Catholics actually believe in the literal truth of the virgin birth?

I would say 80%+/-..... but the important aspect is the Church definition of who/what Jesus is= fully human and fully divine... the virgin birth may not be literally true, but was put in place later to refute the Adoptionists or Docetics.

Are Roman Catholics allowed to vigorously challenge the literal truth of the virgin birth?

NO.... they are not allowed to challenge or even talk about the possibility that a dogma is incorrect.

 

[adilrockstar]

For all intents and purposes, the supposed mother of the supposed Jesus is an object of worship, especially in the Roman Catholic church. Universities and secondary schools are named after her, statues of her exist in most every Catholic church, prayers are said to her. This certainly is enough to qualify her as an object of worship.

Why the attempt to deify a mythical ordinary human?

The worship of Mary is WRONG. Only Catholics do this. No other form of Christianity holds Mary in such high regard.

Mary was blessed and is a very special woman. But she is not worthy of worship above Christ.

God Bless

Adil

 

[MaddLlama]

Mary was blessed and is a very special woman. But she is not worthy of worship above Christ.

This may come as a shock to you, but Catholic doctrine agrees with you. Catholics don't worship Mary at all.

 

[rhb100]

What do you mean by the religion of Atheism, FerventGodSeeker? The only thing atheists have in common is that they are not persuaded by the evidence for the existence of a God. The God they are referring to in their non belief is usually the God as described in the Bible.

 

[Scott1]

This may come as a shock to you, but Catholic doctrine agrees with you. Catholics don't worship Mary at all.

More likely ignored than a shock.....

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration..."
(emphasis mine)

 

[ApologeticsCatholic]

Mary is far from "worshiped" but she is venerated.

Veneration is a religious symbolic act giving honor to someone by honoring an image of that person, particularly applied to saints

Mary was Chosen by god , a supreme entinity as his earth mother, and by those standars she deserves to be honored.

In society we easily honor the best student in a class, we honor football players, and sports teams for a succesful year, and by those same standards i think somthing as big as being hand picked by god to be yhwh earth mother is more then worh honoring

as far as how can Mary Mother of god be both Real and mythical, well two things can answer that, seeing as other to the religious believer there is almost no solid proof only faith and to aperson with faith there religion is true and not a myth and to aperson without faith then its nothing more but a collection of complied stories. to me its truth!

 

[logician]

Mary is far from "worshiped" but she is venerated.

Veneration is a religious symbolic act giving honor to someone by honoring an image of that person, particularly applied to saints

Mary was Chosen by god , a supreme entinity as his earth mother, and by those standars she deserves to be honored.

In society we easily honor the best student in a class, we honor football players, and sports teams for a succesful year, and by those same standards i think somthing as big as being hand picked by god to be yhwh earth mother is more then worh honoring

as far as how can Mary Mother of god be both Real and mythical, well two things can answer that, seeing as other to the religious believer there is almost no solid proof only faith and to aperson with faith there religion is true and not a myth and to aperson without faith then its nothing more but a collection of complied stories. to me its truth!

Hmmm, from the dictionary:

ven·er·ate
–verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing. to regard or treat with reverence; revere.

[Origin: 1615–25; < L vener&#257;tus, ptp. of vener&#257;r&#299; to solicit the goodwill of (a god), WORSHIP, revere, v. deriv. of vener-, s. of venus, presumably in its original sense “desire”; see Venus)

]


Seems like veneration can also be deemed worship, maybe you need another terminology, or should admit that Mary is worshipped in many circles.

 

[ApologeticsCatholic]

Lots of words in the English Language Derive From Latin, But with different Meanign and seeing as last i checked Venerate in the English Language means to Honor, And i am using it as a Verb, "The Catholoc Church Venerates Mary" Then we must mean "To Honor"