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Why do homosexuals and transgenders force religious people to accept them?

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I rather doubt Jesus would have turned away from homosexuals for being homosexuals.
I don't have a clue if being gay is a "sin" & I know what the Bible says, ambiguous at best.
I'm not a straight person trying to make "points" with gay/trans people.
I didn't understand why people of other orientation demonstrated and made public
issues out of wedding cakes. I understand better now.
Many, many, years ago I worked at a huge auto plant near Cleveland, 5,000 employees from all over the country. I befriended a fellow my age ( we were very young then), he was from near where I hailed from so we had something in common. He had lunch together. I had not clue he was gay. Other "he-men" at the plant took me aside and flat told me to stop hanging with the "queer" lest I get a reputation as being a "switch hitter". The "guys" told me I was a bit of a "little Miss Mary" myself and might be taken for a "funny boy" by queers.
Listen: I was maybe 21 at the time, grew up in the country, a farm kid, & thought that "queer" was something you called other boys to get a fight started. Whan in hell was a "little Miss Mary"?
So I told my gay buddy about those things. He explained that, in his view I had a strong female side, that's why we connected as friends, he knew I was not gay, never suggested anything "odd" to me. He said it might be best if we didn't hang around together. We still were friends and met after work for beers & such, he came to my home, met my wife and little kids, brought his "friend" with him.
We were all friends. I'm not gay, never had a gay impulse (right word?). never engaged in contact with a gay tho almost dated a trans. "She" was beautiful and and I flirted with her, even patted her arse. :>)
Years later in therapy for wounds and p.t.s.d. I learned what the anama was, the female side in ALL men. Mine is dominant, I would not trade my gentile, loving, kind, maternal side for anything!
My anama makes me a good writer, a feeling empathetic person. I'm not a pacifist, will fight, am a firearms expert, certified sniper, and expert in nearly all shoulder & hand held weapons. I'm very well trained in unarmed combat, have been injured way too many times. Ain''t no woosy. Still I would not want to be anything other than what I am.
Some responders here took my responses as being anti-something & w/o knowing lumped me in with bigots and other unsavory people. It's a common to make mistakes when one does not know what one does not know.
Some here have very thin skins, probably from being hurt a lot. Understandable.
Still, I was crippled by a black man much bigger than me and half my age at the time.
Very much a "Ferguson" situation but I didn't shoot the guy. I bear no malice, have no regrets, don't judge blacks by his actions, no resentments. I suffer daily, take strong meds just to be able to walk to the coffee pot, am totally disabled.
I hate no one. Re-sent = re-feel, Why re-feel the anger daily? Makes no sense.
I might be a kind, gentile, loving soul but I ain't no fool and still carry a gun.
I won't be beaten again. I pray I never, ever, need to use the thing.
Why feel it daily? Maybe because we get the abuse daily. Hourly.

Look, I respect that you were attacked, that you were horribly victimized. A single incident out of your life is not the same. Imagine if the man who hurt you so badly had been watching you all your life. Dogging every step. Listening to every word. He's the only character on television. He preaches at countless churches. He kills people like you every couple of days. Rips children from their families. He's going to be there until your dying day, and menacing your loved ones at your funeral. And the whole world tells you to be nice to him. After all, he has every right to disapprove of your lifestyle. You're left-handed, after all. Not like decent people If you can't be right handed, you could always just amputate your arms. Stop being so hateful, why are you so oversensitive?
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Storm: Stop being so oversensitive, get over it.
O.K. I WAS KIDDING! I do understand. Listen: I was seriously injured 13 times.
I have no clue how many lesser injuries. I suffered from p.t.s.d. and didn't know it until I went into pain management with a shrink who spotted the emotional damage.
I got over it.
BUT! I get it that my war is over, yours is not. I had a lot of help normalizing, a whole lot of help and it took years. I did nine months, 5 days a week, in rehab learning to walk again. But I walk now, with pain, but I do o.k. & enjoy life as best I can. I'm greatful to the God of my understanding for giving me the gifts I enjoy today.
You, on the other hand, have a daily struggle. I get that & empathize as much as I can given I'm not under the microscope of society.
Believe me I have a better understanding now that I did before this thread was started.
I got over the self loathing and resenting years ago but it did take some time.
I now view people that are homophobic as being kinda silly, even a little stupid.
It's hard to take knowing there are places in the world where orientation will get you tortured and killed. That is sickening but it's reality.
One wonders tho, do people really make you feel as tho you are under the looking glass? I've felt that way when I was working "there" & it was real.
If that is going on with people oriented differently then that is downright criminal.
I have a greater appreciation for what people must endure than ever before.
This world we live in is often cruel and at times I feel it's spinning out of control.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Storm: Stop being so oversensitive, get over it.
O.K. I WAS KIDDING! I do understand. Listen: I was seriously injured 13 times.
I have no clue how many lesser injuries. I suffered from p.t.s.d. and didn't know it until I went into pain management with a shrink who spotted the emotional damage.
I got over it.
BUT! I get it that my war is over, yours is not. I had a lot of help normalizing, a whole lot of help and it took years. I did nine months, 5 days a week, in rehab learning to walk again. But I walk now, with pain, but I do o.k. & enjoy life as best I can. I'm greatful to the God of my understanding for giving me the gifts I enjoy today.
You, on the other hand, have a daily struggle. I get that & empathize as much as I can given I'm not under the microscope of society.
Believe me I have a better understanding now that I did before this thread was started.
I got over the self loathing and resenting years ago but it did take some time.
I now view people that are homophobic as being kinda silly, even a little stupid.
It's hard to take knowing there are places in the world where orientation will get you tortured and killed. That is sickening but it's reality.

Yes, it is.

One wonders tho, do people really make you feel as tho you are under the looking glass? I've felt that way when I was working "there" & it was real.
If that is going on with people oriented differently then that is downright criminal.
I have a greater appreciation for what people must endure than ever before.
This world we live in is often cruel and at times I feel it's spinning out of control.

It's been this way for a long long LONG time. I blame society that deems stratification and it's own version of the caste system as a necessary evil. It may feel like it's spinning out of control, but that's when the eyes are opened and they see injustice as widespread as it is. It truly is dizzying. It takes a compartmentalization effort to psychologically put aside social injustice on a grand scale by derailing and minimizing and joking about it. And it takes at least a partial effort to dehumanize those who are marginalized in order to justify the sanctions against them socially and legally.

To see (in this particular debate) queers as human, and then see the suffering that is widespread, it's a punch in the gut. But straights can be powerful allies, and it has been BECAUSE of straights who have been standing by us and vocalizing against injustice that we've been able to make strides toward equal protections and opportunities. We need to keep speaking up and speaking out. Straights need to listen and stand by us. That is, if the goal is to ensure the realization of the last line of our pledge....with liberty and justice for all.

I know it's very difficult, but your voice and your compassion helps. It may feel as if you are doing nothing, but recognizing this suffering and then having the guts to act in compassion toward those who are suffering is a HUGE step and helps far more than straight allies may assume.
 

Jordan Kurecki

Servant of Jesus Christ
Loving your neighbor doesn't mean approving of everything someone does and being a participant in their sin.

If a man was a homosexual and came to me asking for help, I would help, if he needed money for a good purpose, I would give it, if he was hungry I would buy him food, but if he comes to me and asks me to buy him a condom so he can have homosexual sex, I won't do it, if he wants me to give him money to buy homosexual pornography I am not gonna do it, if he wants me to bake a cake for his homosexual wedding, I am not going to do it... does this mean I hate the person? not at all.

and let's not get into what the bible says about homosexuality, it's clearly condemned. Read Romans chapter 1, or read about how Jesus described marriage as one man cleaving to one woman and becoming one. Also the Old Testament says mankind shall not lie with womankind, The bible condemns homosexuality and bestiality. To claim that the bible does not say homosexuality is a sin is a flat out lie or done out of ignorance. Anyone can twist the bible to make it say what they want, and there are many with a pro homosexual agenda who do so, trust me, I wish homosexuality was not a sin, and I don't want it to be a sin, but God makes the rules not me, and not you.

Jesus being the perfect sinless son of God would never approve of something that it is sin. Jesus is love, but he is also holy and righteous, God hates sin, he loves the sinner which is why he sent his son to die for them, you will never find a single example of Jesus in the bible condoning or participating in the sins of other people.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
Loving your neighbor doesn't mean approving of everything someone does and being a participant in their sin.

If a man was a homosexual and came to me asking for help, I would help, if he needed money for a good purpose, I would give it, if he was hungry I would buy him food, but if he comes to me and asks me to buy him a condom so he can have homosexual sex, I won't do it, if he wants me to give him money to buy homosexual pornography I am not gonna do it, if he wants me to bake a cake for his homosexual wedding, I am not going to do it... does this mean I hate the person? not at all

What if you are in the business of selling cakes? I mean this gets absurd: will you refuse to bake a cake for a Muslim or Jewish celebration? Or what if a Catholic refuses to bake a cake for a second marriage? A doctor refuses treatment of a gay man or lesbian because he believes the wages of sin are death?

No one is asking people to bake cakes without discrimination unless the p person is a baker
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
One wonders tho, do people really make you feel as tho you are under the looking glass? I've felt that way when I was working "there" & it was real.
It happens. Transgender people are often approached and asked about their gender, some people wait to point out "mistakes" someone makes that is an atypical behavior for their identified gender, and people often ask a transgender person about their family, about their past, and even about their sexuality. I wouldn't call it being put under a looking glass, more like being sandwiched between a slide and slide cover and put under a high power microscope.
but if he comes to me and asks me to buy him a condom so he can have homosexual sex, I won't do it, if he wants me to give him money to buy homosexual pornography I am not gonna do it, if he wants me to bake a cake for his homosexual wedding, I am not going to do it... does this mean I hate the person? not at all.
Would you buy the condom for him if he were to have heterosexual sex? Would you buy him porn that feature women?
And not baking the cake does make you intolerant.

Jesus being the perfect sinless son of God would never approve of something that it is sin.
Nor did he say anything about homosexuality.
 

averageJOE

zombie
If a man was a homosexual and came to me asking for help, I would help, if he needed money for a good purpose, I would give it, if he was hungry I would buy him food, but if he comes to me and asks me to buy him a condom so he can have homosexual sex, I won't do it, if he wants me to give him money to buy homosexual pornography I am not gonna do it, if he wants me to bake a cake for his homosexual wedding, I am not going to do it... does this mean I hate the person? not at all.
You would buy him food...but would not bake him a cake...???
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Loving your neighbor doesn't mean approving of everything someone does and being a participant in their sin.

If a man was a homosexual and came to me asking for help, I would help, if he needed money for a good purpose, I would give it, if he was hungry I would buy him food, but if he comes to me and asks me to buy him a condom so he can have homosexual sex, I won't do it, if he wants me to give him money to buy homosexual pornography I am not gonna do it, if he wants me to bake a cake for his homosexual wedding, I am not going to do it... does this mean I hate the person? not at all.

and let's not get into what the bible says about homosexuality, it's clearly condemned. Read Romans chapter 1, or read about how Jesus described marriage as one man cleaving to one woman and becoming one. Also the Old Testament says mankind shall not lie with womankind, The bible condemns homosexuality and bestiality. To claim that the bible does not say homosexuality is a sin is a flat out lie or done out of ignorance. Anyone can twist the bible to make it say what they want, and there are many with a pro homosexual agenda who do so, trust me, I wish homosexuality was not a sin, and I don't want it to be a sin, but God makes the rules not me, and not you.

Jesus being the perfect sinless son of God would never approve of something that it is sin. Jesus is love, but he is also holy and righteous, God hates sin, he loves the sinner which is why he sent his son to die for them, you will never find a single example of Jesus in the bible condoning or participating in the sins of other people.

I wish fornication wasn't a sin but I see the fruit of it. it's not good. I actually in my own mind think it's worse than homosexual sex because at least they don't bring life into the world and then either have to destroy it or raise it in a broken home. And I think you might as well find contentment in being considered "intolerant" because after all these are the same people who consider your God to be intolerant.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
You would buy him food...but would not bake him a cake...???

An evil homosexuality marriage cake, remember. Although it is hard to see any real difference between baking a cake for a gay couple generally and baking one for their wedding, since cake making hardly implies approval of the marriage, much less gay sex.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
I wish fornication wasn't a sin but I see the fruit of it. it's not good. I actually in my own mind think it's worse than homosexual sex because at least they don't bring life into the world and then either have to destroy it or raise it in a broken home. And I think you might as well find contentment in being considered "intolerant" because after all these are the same people who consider your God to be intolerant.

So what, in your mind, distinguishes a secular civil marriage from fornication involving cohabiting couples?
 

averageJOE

zombie
An evil homosexuality marriage cake, remember. Although it is hard to see any real difference between baking a cake for a gay couple generally and baking one for their wedding, since cake making hardly implies approval of the marriage, much less gay sex.
Gay cakes...bad. Straight hamburgers...good.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Storm: Stop being so oversensitive, get over it.
O.K. I WAS KIDDING! I do understand.
I thought you might.

BUT! I get it that my war is over, yours is not.
That's a huge part of it, yes, as is the unrelenting nature.

It's hard to take knowing there are places in the world where orientation will get you tortured and killed. That is sickening but it's reality.
One wonders tho, do people really make you feel as tho you are under the looking glass? I've felt that way when I was working "there" & it was real.
If that is going on with people oriented differently then that is downright criminal.
Yes, though the how of it varies with locale. In Lubbock, where I grew up, it's much more aggressive. The incident of my lover and me being followed home by a pack of no necks threatening to rape us all better was extreme, but there's always someone sneering, and there's not a queer in the city who's unaware of the risk every time you so much as hold hands in public. Not even my dear friend Drew/ Sinnaman, a black drag queen, veritable giant, and the kind of genuine ****** that doesn't need to act tough.

Drew stood 6'7, used to pick me up and perch me on his shoulder - shoulder, SINGULAR - and made a nice living as a body building coach, occasionally supplemented with prize fight purses. He was as loving and protective as he was physically intimidating, and appointed himself bodyguard whenever he saw fit. One night he was doling out safety tips when a much more effeminate guy asked what he'd know about being threatened. He got very still and said "enough jackals can take down any lion." It's the only time I ever heard him say anything with no laughter in his voice.

Portland is much different, acceptance is standard for everyone. Those who dislike weird tend to be a bit preoccupied in the land of the Unipiper, Where's Waldo Day and annual Naked Bike Rides, and don't really bother us much.

Pride is very much a community festival, which is how I like it. Instead of people waving sex toys, we have circus troupes, Brazilian heritage drummers and dancers in white and gold, and huge church contingents (my church was the biggest group last year!) distributing flowers and bangles to toddlers dressed as fairies to watch the parade.

People feel comfortable, part of the community. Which is why they feel so betrayed when suddenly that great Beaverton bakery cancels their wedding cake, or kissing a partner's cheek inspires an old man to start shrieking about sin, or the board member and beloved choir soloist in my church spends a week in ICU because he didn't notice he was being followed as he hurried home to help his husband-the-instant-it's-legal of 17 years soothe the newest of their five current foster children back to sleep. She'd had another nightmare and needed daddy Kevin's fairy dust to bring the good dreams back.

I visited him once the hospital cleared it. He could barely move for the broken ribs, and had very nearly lost an eye, but he was himself, smiling as best he could with the stitches, more concerned about seeing that his church duties were seen to than any possibile complications, and telling me that there's no point in hating them back... right up until he told me why he'd walked instead of waiting half an hour for a cab. He seemed more sad and disappointed than traumatized recounting the attack, but it started to crumble when he got to the fairy dust. She blamed herself, you see. He wouldn't have been walking if she hadn't needed daddy's fairy dust. 6 year olds will do that, find a way to make it their fault, because it's easier to hate themselves than cope with caprice. They nearly killed him, and he forgave that effortlessly. But they took the fairy dust away, it will never make her feel safe again. That? That was beyond what he could forgive.

We're UUs. We'd spent many wonderful evenings comparing his Christianity and my neopaganism, and he'd always gently counseled against the idea that the darkness is holy, too. That hatred, suffering, fury can bring strength and wisdom if we learn how to channel them properly. He finally got it, but he's still a wonderful Christian. He asked me to carry what I could, because it would only poison him. Sometimes even the best humanity has to offer needs help from the broken children of the darkness.

For me, that's the biggest, most devastating part: it's not my war. Honestly, there's nothing left for the ******** to take, nothing they can do to me that hasn't already been done and overcome, and not by any heterosupremacist. I long ago lost the capacity to fear for my own well-being, to give a rat's infected hemorrhoid about mere survival, at least mine. What's the point of breathing if there's no beauty, no joy, no love?

It's the people who bring those things into my life that I fear for. The spirits still unbroken, whose sweet shining balances my darkness, the whose innocence even my demons will not see stolen.

In memory of fairy dust.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Because what the f do they know about it themselves?
Fairy dust. How about you?

I take lessons on how to love from people who love the vile, the obnoxious, the judgmental, and do so without necessarily having that love reciprocated
The fact that you drive away the qualified teachers with such efficient vigor does not mean that one can truly love what one finds vile.

I view myself as a speaker of truth.
Yes, we're aware. Of all the venom you've spewed, nothing is quite so obscene as that simple delusion.

You need a new moniker.
 
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