Why do many Christians claim the Spirit of God is a Holy ‘Ghost’?

[vijeno]

Do you say that ‘Geist’ means ‘Ghost’…. Why haven’t you shown evidence of that claim??

Because German is my native tongue, and I was brought up as a catholic in a majority catholic country, I sang a lot of church songs when I was young, so I think I know what we call the holy spirit, and also what we call an apparition. Believe me, we use "Geist" for both.

But okay, I'll humor you, just for fun.

Acts 19:2: Acts (Acts) 19 :: German Luther (LUT)
"Habt ihr den heiligen Geist empfangen, da ihr gläubig wurdet?" (He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.) (εἶπέν τε πρὸς αὐτούς εἰ πνεῦμα ἅγιον ἐλάβετε πιστεύσαντες οἱ δὲ πρὸς αὐτόν ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ εἰ πνεῦμα ἅγιον ἔστιν ἠκούσαμεν)

Rev 22:17: Revelation (Revelation) 22 :: German Luther (LUT)
"Und der Geist und die Braut sprechen: Komm!" (And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.) (Καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ ἡ νύμφη λέγουσιν, Ἐλθε)

Here are 5 church songs mentioning the holy spirit in German and English:

ChatGPT

A conversational AI system that listens, learns, and challenges

chatgpt.com

And then on the other hand, here's "Geist" meaning "apparition": "Geisterjäger John Sinclair" (John Sinclair (German fiction) - Wikipedia)

Oh, and you even have a German loanword in that sense: "Poltergeist", literally a ghost that rumbles.

...and here's wikipedia explaining the whole concept for you: Geist - Wikipedia

Geist can be roughly translated into three English meanings: ghost (as in the supernatural entity), spirit (as in the Holy Spirit), and mind or intellect. Some English translators resort to using "spirit/mind" or "spirit (mind)" to help convey the meaning of the term.[1]

Or how about Kant's "Träume eines Geistersehers"? Träume eines Geistersehers, erläutert durch Träume der Metaphysik
"Soll er die Richtigkeit aller solcher Geistererscheinungen gänzlich ableugnen?" ("
"Should he completely deny the veracity of all such ghostly apparitions?")

What’s that supposed to mean…?

Resolve your intense uncontrollable emotional flares when somebody disagrees with you in a calm and respectful manner.

And ‘No’ back to you…. It’s not surprising that you should answer that way…. YOU CANNOT answer any other way!!!

How would I answer to claims that are clearly and blatantly wrong? "Geist ist geil" does not mean what you think it does. I know that because, tadah, it's my mother language. Let me kindly suggest that you get your translations straight when you try to ridicule. Otherwise, the joke will backfire in your face.

Let me also kindly suggest that you study the bible, a little bit of linguistics, and maybe a bit of hebrew and ancient greek, and then come back and try to argue with the adults.

 

[vijeno]

As an ironic reaction, some people switched it to "Geist is geil" - "intellect is sexy", and used it to critique inconsiderate consumerism and promote the German intellectual tradition

Haha, cool, das ist ja völlig an mir vorbeigegangen.

 

[Rival]

Thanks for the thumbs up

I'm just curious. When the Saxons first arrived in England from Germany, what language do you think they spoke at that time?

Saxon in various forms. A west Germanic language, but not quite the variant that would evolve into German.

 

[Tamino]

Haha, cool, das ist ja völlig an mir vorbeigegangen.

I think the original campaign was 20 years ago, and the "Geiz-ist-Geil Mentalität" sparked some discussion and controversy in the media. Feels recent to me, but I guess I am just getting old

 

[Rival]

What was the religious belief system of the Saxons?

Who gives a ****?

Languages don't have religion.

Please drop this. It's not an argument it's your bias.

 

[McBell]

What are you talking about… what nonsense are you on about….??

How many times have I presented the definition… ten, twenty… more?

Where have you been?

But, because it’s no problem to me to answer you:

You claim you are using the Scriptural definition of the word ghost but can not present where Scripture actually defines the word ghost?

I mean, you do know that Merriam-Webster is not Scripture, right?

 

[Rival]

An apostle wrote, concerning the Greeks, who were well known ‘interlectuals’:

• ‘For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.’ (1 Cor 1:19-21)

Those verses reflect exactly what I’ve been saying to you. Too much study [of earthly matters] makes you lose the spiritual aspect of reality. It’s the study that becomes your ‘spiritual’ reality. This then leads you to ‘excuse God’ out if the equation of life such that Pagan beliefs become attractive to you.

I ask you: ‘Is there a Ghost of God’?

What do you say?

You go into Etymology instead of answering from the actual point of action. Delving into the etymology is an obscurity way out of answering seeing that you could not / May, dare not / just say,

• “No, there is no such a thing as ‘the Ghost of God’”

Do you understand that ghost and spirit mean the same thing in different languages?

Yes or no.

And yes, there is a Ghost of God. I will say this until my dying breath as someone who studies language and knows what she's talking about. You seem like a fundamentalist and won't read other books. You are deflecting by saying that book learning is bad because you lack the necessary skills to defend your argument. This debate has already been won by the people who have understood the sources and are not reliant on a belief system to tell them what words mean, because that is absurd.

Christians loved and love study and books and from early on were devoted to reading the ancients and commenting on their work. They set up scriptoria wherein they could write copies of books and study them. They became Renaissance masters who studied ancient languages and formerly lost works. They set up universities in the High Mediaeval Period and had libraries and went on long treks just to borrow books.

So you are on the wrong side of the argument, here.

 

[Soapy]

Depends on when in history you examine the definition of Ghost, which changed over time. The way ghost (gæst) was understood in Old English can indeed mean the same thing as "ruach." In Greek, the word "pneuma" (πνεῦμα) translates as spirit or ghost, breath, and wind.

You really should be catching on by now. The fact that you aren't is troublesome.

Getting desperate won’t help you. Wrong is wrong no matter how you try to wrap it.

Bring it didn’t to simplicity - and back on topic:

• Does God have a Ghost?

 

[Soapy]

OMGosh. You can't seem to learn. I gave you six different translations of "geist" on of which is ghost. Your obstinance isn't helping you.

I explained IN GREAT DETAIL who the meaning of ghost has changed over time, and that it is acceptable (though awkward) to use its older meaning, just as many Christians enjoy using the older English of the KJV.

It's called an idiom. Sheesh.

Oh, you mean like ‘Ghost’ in place of ‘Spirit’?

• The Ghost of God?
• The Ghost of a dead person goes to rest with God when the Soul (did someone claim that ‘Soul’ meant ‘Ghost’?) dies?
• “So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my [GHOST],’ says the LORD Almighty.” (Zech 4:6)
• “Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my [GHOST].” When he had said this, he breathed his last.” (Luke 23:46)
• “Then the LORD said, “My [GHOST] will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” (Gen 6:3)
• “And I will put my [GHOST] in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” (Ezekiel 36:27)

There is nothing spiritual about words. Words are simply labels we give to people, things, actions, etc. There is no such thing as any magical or heavenly language. Languages are simply tools we use to communicate.

Skirting….! You know I’m talking about the Spiritual meaning - Deceit is ever the sword of the ignorant ones!!

Jesus said to Nicodemus: ‘How be if you are a leader of the Jews yet you do not understand SPIRITUAL things??’ (John 3:10)

Yet you say there is no such thing as Spirutusl language?

Actually if you want to be BIBLICAL, you would say, Καὶ μὴ λυπεῖτε τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον τοῦ θεοῦ, ἐν ᾧ ἐσφραγίσθητε εἰς ἡμέραν ἀπολυτρώσεως.. You would use ANY English word.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel, now. Any further and you will fall out the bottom of your bucket of deceit.

Your misunderstanding of this expression has already been corrected.

Who has corrected me? To what? To a deceptive and wrongful understanding… I think not? Nay, I know not!!

What is ‘The Ghost of God’… what is a Ghost :- Did the Jews believe in a GHOST OF GOD?
DO JEWS believe in a Ghost of God?

 

[Soapy]

That is factually WRONG.

Why am I wasting my time? You clearly aren't interested in actually reading and understanding what I'm saying. You are willfully ignorant. Normally ignorance is not a vice. But when a person persists in their ignorance after being corrected time and again, that is very definitely a vice.

Show me here, now, no equivocating… show me, before medieval times, evidence that people spoke and wrote of a ‘Ghost of God’.

I will give you the opportunity to NOT ANSWER to save your face….

Of course, not answering says you were wrong….!

 

[Rival]

• “Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my [GHOST].” When he had said this, he breathed his last.” (Luke 23:46)

Luke 23:46

Ða quoth se hælend clepiende mycele stefne. Fader ich be-beode minne gast on þinre hande. & þus cweðende he forð-ferde.

So yes.

 

[Soapy]

Because German is my native tongue, and I was brought up as a catholic in a majority catholic country, I sang a lot of church songs when I was young, so I think I know what we call the holy spirit, and also what we call an apparition. Believe me, we use "Geist" for both.

But okay, I'll humor you, just for fun.

Acts 19:2: Acts (Acts) 19 :: German Luther (LUT)
"Habt ihr den heiligen Geist empfangen, da ihr gläubig wurdet?" (He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.) (εἶπέν τε πρὸς αὐτούς εἰ πνεῦμα ἅγιον ἐλάβετε πιστεύσαντες οἱ δὲ πρὸς αὐτόν ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ εἰ πνεῦμα ἅγιον ἔστιν ἠκούσαμεν)

Rev 22:17: Revelation (Revelation) 22 :: German Luther (LUT)
"Und der Geist und die Braut sprechen: Komm!" (And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.) (Καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ ἡ νύμφη λέγουσιν, Ἐλθε)

Here are 5 church songs mentioning the holy spirit in German and English:

ChatGPT

A conversational AI system that listens, learns, and challenges

chatgpt.com

And then on the other hand, here's "Geist" meaning "apparition": "Geisterjäger John Sinclair" (John Sinclair (German fiction) - Wikipedia)

Oh, and you even have a German loanword in that sense: "Poltergeist", literally a ghost that rumbles.

...and here's wikipedia explaining the whole concept for you: Geist - Wikipedia


Or how about Kant's "Träume eines Geistersehers"? Träume eines Geistersehers, erläutert durch Träume der Metaphysik
"Soll er die Richtigkeit aller solcher Geistererscheinungen gänzlich ableugnen?" ("
"Should he completely deny the veracity of all such ghostly apparitions?")



Resolve your intense uncontrollable emotional flares when somebody disagrees with you in a calm and respectful manner.



How would I answer to claims that are clearly and blatantly wrong? "Geist ist geil" does not mean what you think it does. I know that because, tadah, it's my mother language. Let me kindly suggest that you get your translations straight when you try to ridicule. Otherwise, the joke will backfire in your face.

Let me also kindly suggest that you study the bible, a little bit of linguistics, and maybe a bit of hebrew and ancient greek, and then come back and try to argue with the adults.

It matters not what your mother tongue is…. Many more people have English as their mother tongue and yet make grave errors of ibteroretation…. ‘They’re’, ‘Their’, ‘There’… ‘Than’ and ‘Then’ … “it” and “it’s”… In fact, some foreign English speakers are better than native speakers since native speakers often are less pressured to be correct in speaking and spelling - and ACCEPT sloppy spellings and pronunciation. But you are leading off topic again since you cannot hold to the line of debate which you are in.

Is there such a thing as ‘The Ghost of God’?
Is the Ghost if God the Spirit of a Dead person?

Does God have a ‘Ghost’? Does God have a Dead Body?

Show evidence of your answer.

 

[Soapy]

Luke 23:46

Ða quoth se hælend clepiende mycele stefne. Fader ich be-beode minne gast on þinre hande. & þus cweðende he forð-ferde.

So yes.

Erm, the witch of Endor ‘brought up’ the GHOST OF SAMUEL….

Of course, you know that it was just a TRICK, and ILLUSION… don’t you?

Your answers are so short and devoid of flesh that it leads me to believe that you are struggling to find support for your flimsy ideology.

If ONE translation in German or Saxon or whatever language that was is all you can provide as your evidence then you are skating in thin ice.

Considering yours and all these others on here claiming that ‘Ghost’ is the same as ‘Spirit’ but none can provide evidence …. Odd… isn’t it???

And you all cannot STAY ON TOPIC but need to stray in ancient language of PAGAN PEOPLE to prove(?) your point…. Hmmm… flimsy…!!

Did the Old Testament Jews believe in an Ghost of God?

 

[Rival]

Erm, the witch of Endor ‘brought up’ the GHOST OF SAMUEL….

Of course, you know that it was just a TRICK, and ILLUSION… don’t you?

Your answers are so short and devoid of flesh that it leads me to believe that you are struggling to find support for your flimsy ideology.

If ONE translation in German or Saxon or whatever language that was is all you can provide as your evidence then you are skating in thin ice.

Considering yours and all these others on here claiming that ‘Ghost’ is the same as ‘Spirit’ but none can provide evidence …. Odd… isn’t it???

And you all cannot STAY ON TOPIC but need to stray in ancient language of PAGAN PEOPLE to prove(?) your point…. Hmmm… flimsy…!!

You do realize we still speak English, right? That this is written in the same language we are speaking? It's just an older form, which I'm using to show you how this word was and still is used. Why is this confusing?

You asked someone to provide an English version where the word 'ghost' is used in specific passages. I gave you one.


So respond properly instead of dismissing it.

You are becoming rather tiresome and everyone has told you you are wrong.

What exactly is your purpose now?

 

[Rival]

@Soapy

What evidence would you actually accept that ghost is the same as spirit?

You asked for texts, I gave you some.

You dismissed them.

What do you want? Because if you nothing will convince you, why did you make this thread?

 

[Soapy]

You do realize we still speak English, right? That this is written in the same language we are speaking? It's just an older form, which I'm using to show you how this word was and still is used. Why is this confusing?

You asked someone to provide an English version where the word 'ghost' is used in specific passages. I gave you one.


So respond properly instead of dismissing it.

You are becoming rather tiresome and everyone has told you you are wrong.

What exactly is your purpose now?

Please —- Be as tiresome as you like… the truth dies t change because you cannot fudge your incorrect Pagan ideology into a scriptural forum.

You cannot even admit that Anglo Saxons were PAGAN and therefore INCORPORATED their Pagan beliefs into the new CHRISTIAN / Judeo belief.

The Anglo-Saxon believed in the Spirits of the dead wandering in the works of the living. IIt is therefore virtually absolute that their belief in such ‘Disembodied Spirits’ should amalgamate into the Christian term for a ‘Spirit’ (An ethereal invisible formless ‘spirit’ creation by God).

Acceptance of such a definition leads to wrongful belief - a misleading term which even worse is then applied to the HOLY SPIRIT that is Of God… God’s own holy, righteous Spirit…. Blasphemously termed, ‘Holy Ghost’ by church leaders, upheld by advocates, blessed by those who care less for truth and righteousness and correction of Godly matters… you, are more interested in your learnings to do with etymology of words and upholding of Anglo-Saxon folklore!!!

 

[Rival]

Please —- Be as tiresome as you like… the truth dies t change because you cannot fudge your incorrect Pagan ideology into a scriptural forum.

You cannot even admit that Anglo Saxons were PAGAN and therefore INCORPORATED their Pagan beliefs into the new CHRISTIAN / Judeo belief.

The Anglo-Saxon believed in the Spirits of the dead wandering in the works of the living. IIt is therefore virtually absolute that their belief in such ‘Disembodied Spirits’ should amalgamate into the Christian term for a ‘Spirit’ (An ethereal invisible formless ‘spirit’ creation by God).

Acceptance of such a definition leads to wrongful belief - a misleading term which even worse is then applied to the HOLY SPIRIT that is Of God… God’s own holy, righteous Spirit…. Blasphemously termed, ‘Holy Ghost’ by church leaders, upheld by advocates, blessed by those who care less for truth and righteousness and correction of Godly matters… you, are more interested in your learnings to do with etymology of words and upholding of Anglo-Saxon folklore!!!

The Anglo Saxons ARE NOT PAGANS.

We still exist, we are called the ENGLISH.

The Anglo-Saxons were converted.

Are you telling me that the Anglo-Saxons have no way of writing the Gospels in our own language????

Which language would you suggest we use???

 

[Soapy]

@Soapy

What evidence would you actually accept that ghost is the same as spirit?

You asked for texts, I gave you some.

You dismissed them.

What do you want? Because if you nothing will convince you, why did you make this thread?

It us right to dismiss ‘evidence’ that is non-conducive with the question. In fact, it seems obvious WHY you cannot furnish conducive answers… you have none.

And, I consistently try to keep the thread ON TOPIC but you (and the others) deviate at the drop of a hat back to your ‘safe ground’ of off topic subject.

 

[Eddi]

The Anglo Saxons ARE NOT PAGANS.

Some are!

But not very many

 

[Rival]

It us right to dismiss ‘evidence’ that is non-conducive with the question. In fact, it seems obvious WHY you cannot furnish conducive answers… you have none.

And, I consistently try to keep the thread ON TOPIC but you (and the others) deviate at the drop of a hat back to your ‘safe ground’ of off topic subject.

Tell me which language English people can write the Gospel in.