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Why do many Christians claim the Spirit of God is a Holy ‘Ghost’?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
So the German language did not have the word spirit, but only the word ghost.
@Tamino wrote you a really super explanation, and what I have to add is very little.

English is at its heart a Germanic language (the Saxons were a Germanic tribe that conquered England).

However, it adopted words from many, many other languages such as Latin, as he pointed out. This willingness to incorporate new words from other peoples has made English the most expressive language in the world, with 171,476 in the dictionary. Just as a comparison, Hebrew has about 80,000.

When the Saxons first invaded England, they brought an older version of German with them. Just as the word in today's standard German is Geist, it was Geist even back then in Old High German. By the time what we call Old English was spoken, the word "gæst" (or "gast") primarily meant "spirit" or "soul." It was used to refer to the vital essence or life force within a person, often in a more general or broader sense than the modern English word "ghost." The term could encompass not just the spirits of the dead but also living spirits, including angels and demons--and God. The Old English version of "Holy Ghost" was Hāliġ Gast.

By the time the language had evolved into Middle English, the meaning had changed to something more specific: a disembodied spirit. So it still was used to indicate things like angels, demons, and God. It was during this period of Middle English, roughly 1100 to 1500 CE, that the phrase "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" became common in English religious texts and liturgy.

It is only now, in Modern English, that ghost has come to refer only to the spirits of the dead. This does create a kind of incongruency. On one hand, God is not a dead spirit. On the other hand, religious people are very inclined to maintain tradition and will use older words and grammar in their texts. The Doxology was written in 1674, and is still sung by Christians today; it uses the phrase "Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."

I bet that was more than you ever wanted to know about "ghost." :)
How did the word "spirit" arrive in any language? Was it through idiomatic situations?
To add just a tad to Tamino's post, the Latin word "spiritus" began to influence the English language during the Middle English period, which lasted from roughly 1100 to 1500. English adopted many Latin words because Latin was the language of scholars and the Church. This term encompasses various meanings, including "breath," "soul," "life," and "spirit." In Latin, the words for Holy Spirit were "Spiritus Sanctus." By the 15th century, "spirit" had become well established in English.

While Christians today will say "Holy Ghost" when reading or singing these older texts, I've noticed that they have become uncomfortable with the use of Holy Ghost, and have pretty much switched to Holy Spirit.

What are your thoughts about the Canaanite pantheon? Would the Holy Ghost be among the many that's the pantheon? Many gods people create, including the Holy Ghost. Because that's what pantheon means is many?
Canaanite pantheism is extremely different from Christianity today. Christians believe there is only ONE God, expressed as the three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That's not polytheism, it's a sort of mucky version of monotheism.

Furthermore, in classic paganism, what we call gods would be better understood to be "powers," things that had great effect on the lives of humans, such as "storm" or "sea" or abstractions like "love." They didn't have the Christian concept of God the Holy Spirit, who is not part of nature, but transcends nature.

Anyhow, it would be a great misunderstanding of Christianity to label Father, Son, and Holy Spirit a pantheon.
 
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Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
@Tamino wrote you a really super explanation, and what I have to add is very little.

English is at its heart a Germanic language (the Saxons were a Germanic tribe that conquered England).

However, it adopted words from many, many other languages such as Latin, as he pointed out. This willingness to incorporate new words from other peoples has made English the most expressive language in the world, with 171,476 in the dictionary. Just as a comparison, Hebrew has about 80,000.

When the Saxons first invaded England, they brought an older version of German with them. Just as the word in today's standard German is Geist, it was Geist even back then in Old High German. By the time what we call Old English was spoken, the word "gæst" (or "gast") primarily meant "spirit" or "soul." It was used to refer to the vital essence or life force within a person, often in a more general or broader sense than the modern English word "ghost." The term could encompass not just the spirits of the dead but also living spirits, including angels and demons--and God. The Old English version of "Holy Ghost" was Hāliġ Gast.

By the time the language had evolved into Middle English, the meaning had changed to something more specific: a disembodied spirit. So it still was used to indicate things like angels, demons, and God. It was during this period of Middle English, roughly 1100 to 1500 CE, that the phrase "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" became common in English religious texts and liturgy.

It is only now, in Modern English, that ghost has come to refer only to the spirits of the dead. This does create a kind of incongruency. On one hand, God is not a dead spirit. On the other hand, religious people are very inclined to maintain tradition and will use older words and grammar in their texts. The Doxology was written in 1674, and is still sung by Christians today; it uses the phrase "Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."

I bet that was more than you ever wanted to know about "ghost." :)

To add just a tad to Tamino's post, the Latin word "spiritus" began to influence the English language during the Middle English period, which lasted from roughly 1100 to 1500. English adopted many Latin words because Latin was the language of scholars and the Church. This term encompasses various meanings, including "breath," "soul," "life," and "spirit." In Latin, the words for Holy Spirit were "Spiritus Sanctus." By the 15th century, "spirit" had become well established in English.

While Christians today will say "Holy Ghost" when reading or singing these older texts, I've noticed that they have become uncomfortable with the use of Holy Ghost, and have pretty much switched to Holy Spirit.


Canaanite pantheism is extremely different from Christianity today. Christians believe there is only ONE God, expressed as the three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That's not polytheism, it's a sort of mucky version of monotheism.

Furthermore, in classic paganism, what we call gods would be better understood to be "powers," things that had great effect on the lives of humans, such as "storm" or "sea" or abstractions like "love." They didn't have the Christian concept of God the Holy Spirit, who is not part of nature, but transcends nature.

Anyhow, it would be a great misunderstanding of Christianity to label Father, Son, and Holy Spirit a pantheon.
Good post, would only argue with one sentence: they brought an older version of German with them.

English was never a variant of German as far as I am aware.

Besides that, this is a very good evaluation and I expect it to be be completely shoved aside, unfortunately.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Soapy, language is not stationary and I would suggest consulting a linguist expert in this field. You may or not be correct, I don't know enough.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Good post, would only argue with one sentence: they brought an older version of German with them.

English was never a variant of German as far as I am aware.

Besides that, this is a very good evaluation and I expect it to be be completely shoved aside, unfortunately.

That depends on how you draw the line for in effect early Germanic dialects versus languages and how you understand where Saxon and Angle fit into that and not forgetting the Frisians and Jutes.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
That depends on how you draw the line in effect early Germanic dialects versus languages and how you understand where Saxon and Angle fit into that and forgetting the Frisians and Jutes.
I think using words like 'German' and 'English' are slightly anachronistic as most of these were still variants of the Germanic language in the Northern, Eastern and Western groups. I think it would be more sensible to say English is a variant of West Germanic. That might be what @IndigoChild5559 meant.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Given my studies I'm more worried that you haven't read any books on the topic you're apparently so passionate about :)
Funny… that’s what I was saying about you.

I’ve been doing scriptural study for over 50 years …

What you mean …. Is that you are surprised I haven’t been converted to ‘believe the lie’ but that I believe what the Scriptures say that the MAJORITY will be misled - the majority who are travelling gayfully along the straight and broad road that leads to failure towards God’s word.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Lol. You don't possess the authority to "let me off" or not.
I fear you have no understanding of what I said to you. It therefore goes without saying that you don’t understand spiritual matters….

What you did was like when a skilled fighter is offended by a featherweight, and the fighter says, ‘I will let you off because I can see you don’t know my abilities…’. And you quip back: ‘You don’t have the right to let me off being offensive to you!!’

Wow - that featherweight doesn’t know he just dodged the beating of his life …
Professional help is available in your country. There is no shame in getting support when you need it.
What’s that supposed to mean…?
"The holy ghost". Der is the article, heilig means holy and Geist means ghost. It should be "der heilige Geist", to be precise.
Do you say that ‘Geist’ means ‘Ghost’…. Why haven’t you shown evidence of that claim??
Post a link??

And ‘No’ back to you…. It’s not surprising that you should answer that way…. YOU CANNOT answer any other way!!!

Teacher’s Comment to Head Teacher: ‘I gave this pupil zero marks as the pupil has failed to justify his claims and refused to answer the very simple questions set to him!’
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I don't personally believe that God is playing any sort of mind game with us. For starters, I believe that all of us are in for a lot of surprises one day, and secondly, I choose my religion because it helps me to be a better person, no other reason.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Funny… that’s what I was saying about you.

I’ve been doing scriptural study for over 50 years …

What you mean …. Is that you are surprised I haven’t been converted to ‘believe the lie’ but that I believe what the Scriptures say that the MAJORITY will be misled - the majority who are travelling gayfully along the straight and broad road that leads to failure towards God’s word.
There is more than one book.

There are books that explain the emergence of modern languages. I've read them.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
There is more than one book.

There are books that explain the emergence of modern languages. I've read them.
Why are you talking about the emergence of modern language when the thread is about the holy Scriptures and the Spirit of God.

Are we supposed to believe that modern language claims that God has a Ghost?

If it comes to it, modern language says that ‘Ghost’ is ‘The disembodied Spirit of a dead person’…


Which one of those definitions pertains to ‘The Ghost of God’?
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Why are you talking about the emergence of modern language when the thread is about the holy Scriptures and the Spirit of God.

Are we supposed to believe that modern language claims that God has a Ghost?

If it comes to it, modern language says that ‘Ghost’ is ‘The disembodied Spirit of a dead person’…
For. ****. Sake.


The

Word

Ghost

Has

A

History

We

Learn

About

In

Books

About

How

Our

Language

Evolved.


Are you doing this on purpose?

Look up the etymology of the word GHOST.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Why are you talking about the emergence of modern language when the thread is about the holy Scriptures and the Spirit of God.

Are we supposed to believe that modern language claims that God has a Ghost?

If it comes to it, modern language says that ‘Ghost’ is ‘The disembodied Spirit of a dead person’…


Which one of those definitions pertains to ‘The Ghost of God’?
Are you an anti-intellectual?

Because that seems to be your ideology.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
For. ****. Sake.


The

Word

Ghost

Has

A

History

We

Learn

About

In

Books

About

How

Our

Language

Evolved.


Are you doing this on purpose?

Look up the etymology of the word GHOST.
I was thinking it but you said it.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Why are you talking about the emergence of modern language when the thread is about the holy Scriptures and the Spirit of God.

Are we supposed to believe that modern language claims that God has a Ghost?

If it comes to it, modern language says that ‘Ghost’ is ‘The disembodied Spirit of a dead person’…


Which one of those definitions pertains to ‘The Ghost of God’?
From your source:

: the seat of life or intelligence : SOUL
give up the ghost

Literally the first definition.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
From your source:

: the seat of life or intelligence : SOUL
give up the ghost

Literally the first definition.
What has that for to do the The Spirit of God. Are you saying that God’s GHOST is a Soul?

How, exactly, does the ‘SOUL’ (which means ‘Person’) relate to ‘Spirit of God’? Surely you know that the word ‘Ghost’ IN CONTEXT OF THE DEBATE is about ‘The DISEMBODIED SPIRIT of a dead SOUL’…..

I think you guys are are leaning too much on ETYMOLOGY and have lost the purpose of CHRISTIAN discussion/debate.

This is also how many scientists claim there is no God because they look down their microscopes and see the structure of the world and say, ‘It all came about … by accident!’.

The debate is: Why is the Spirit of God called a ‘GHOST’ by some Christian’s when the word ‘Ghost’ means, ‘A disembodied Spirit of a DEAD person/Soul’.

You guys have microscoped down into the Etymology of ‘Ghost’ to try to squirm your way out of your grave error of meaning.

It would be easier for you if you just admit that the Spirit of God cannot be a ‘GHOST’ since I notice that nearly all of you are just posting COMMENTS but no actual EVIDENCE of your claim. This is typical behaviour of people in ignorance……
 
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McBell

Unbound
@Soapy, language is not stationary and I would suggest consulting a linguist expert in this field. You may or not be correct, I don't know enough.
The problem here is that the OP is stuck on a single definition of the word 'ghost' and completely ignoring all other definitions of the word "ghost".
 

McBell

Unbound
Look up the etymology of the word GHOST.
Don't even have to go very far.
I presented the etymology in post #45:

 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Are you an anti-intellectual?

Because that seems to be your ideology.
An apostle wrote, concerning the Greeks, who were well known ‘interlectuals’:
  • ‘For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.’ (1 Cor 1:19-21)
Those verses reflect exactly what I’ve been saying to you. Too much study [of earthly matters] makes you lose the spiritual aspect of reality. It’s the study that becomes your ‘spiritual’ reality. This then leads you to ‘excuse God’ out if the equation of life such that Pagan beliefs become attractive to you.

I ask you: ‘Is there a Ghost of God’?

What do you say?

You go into Etymology instead of answering from the actual point of action. Delving into the etymology is an obscurity way out of answering seeing that you could not / May, dare not / just say,
  • “No, there is no such a thing as ‘the Ghost of God’”
 
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