why do people assume spanking is not harmful?

[Shadow Wolf]

well my dear, if the kid is too stupid to understand why he gets grounded or time outed. Then what makes you think he can understand the reason why you hit him? If he is stupid then he is stupid period. If he is not that stupid though. Over time he will get the message.

You want to call spanking abuse, but calling a child stupid is one of the most damaging things you can do to a child. Children are such wonderful learners, full of curiosity and a quenchless thirst for knowledge, and an open enough mind to not be shocked, upset, offended when something is different, but a mind that will only become saturated with more questions.
Out of all the psychology classes and life span development classes I have taken (and I can now say I have a degree in it), abuse was addressed as detrimental, spanking was not even mentioned, consistent discipline was heavily outlined as the best method, but degrading and name calling a child had it's own section in many text books about how damaging it can be.

 

[dgirl1986]

You want to call spanking abuse, but calling a child stupid is one of the most damaging things you can do to a child. Children are such wonderful learners, full of curiosity and a quenchless thirst for knowledge, and an open enough mind to not be shocked, upset, offended when something is different, but a mind that will only become saturated with more questions.
Out of all the psychology classes and life span development classes I have taken (and I can now say I have a degree in it), abuse was addressed as detrimental, spanking was not even mentioned, consistent discipline was heavily outlined as the best method, but degrading and name calling a child had it's own section in many text books about how damaging it can be.

I can attest to that.

 

[NocLue]

And says a lot

I don't label children. Most pro spankers do. They say you can't reason with a two year old because they are stupid. I keep hearing that from pro spankers at least 4 times a week. So I said, if they are that stupid (which I don't believe of course) and they can't understand why they are being put in time out. What makes you think they will understand why they are being assaulted? But I don't think children are stupid. I know many adults who are stupid. But so far, I haven't seen a stupid child.

 

[NocLue]

You want to call spanking abuse, but calling a child stupid is one of the most damaging things you can do to a child. Children are such wonderful learners, full of curiosity and a quenchless thirst for knowledge, and an open enough mind to not be shocked, upset, offended when something is different, but a mind that will only become saturated with more questions.
Out of all the psychology classes and life span development classes I have taken (and I can now say I have a degree in it), abuse was addressed as detrimental, spanking was not even mentioned, consistent discipline was heavily outlined as the best method, but degrading and name calling a child had it's own section in many text books about how damaging it can be.

Correction. I meant to say if you feel that the kid is too stupid to understand why they are grounded. Why do you think they will understand why they are assaulted?
I personally didn't label a kid stupid. i know many adults who are stupid beyond belief. But I haven't seen a stupid child.

 

[dgirl1986]

I don't label children. Most pro spankers do. They say you can't reason with a two year old because they are stupid. I keep hearing that from pro spankers at least 4 times a week. So I said, if they are that stupid (which I don't believe of course) and they can't understand why they are being put in time out. What makes you think they will understand why they are being assaulted? But I don't think children are stupid. I know many adults who are stupid. But so far, I haven't seen a stupid child.

Yet you didnt hear that from me. A failure to understand concepts such as consequence via means suggested by you at a certain early developmental stage in life is not the same as a child being stupid.

If you had conducted research on the subject, you would understand why they make that connection.

 

[NocLue]

This has nothing to do with stupidity, it is to do with the developmental stages of children in the first 6 years of their life and their limit of understanding in these different stages.

I smacked his hand and told him no, you do not hurt the cat. He then realised that what he had done was a bad thing, where as earlier he thought it was a joke. He wasnt taking the telling off seriously although usually he does take it seriously when I do it because I do not put up with his tantrums.

When it comes to something like this, you can't just take a laid back "hopefully words will work" approach. It is a pretty serious thing.

The fact that you feel the need to label a child stupid to get your point across is actually quite sad.

First of all. I don't think kids are stupid. Their parents in 98% of the time are. Read my replies please.

 

[dgirl1986]

First of all. I don't think kids are stupid. Their parents in 98% of the time are. Read my replies please.

I did read your replies and my own replies were actually based on those.

 

[NocLue]

I am just wondering how much studying/reading/personal research you have done on child psychology, child development and parenting?

I am just suggesting alternatives that ensure that a child won't feel like ****, which is what spanking does, whether you like to believe it or not.

 

[dgirl1986]

I am just suggesting alternatives that ensure that a child won't feel like ****, which is what spanking does, whether you like to believe it or not.

It is not so black and white. You have to take into consideration age, how regular it occurs, the amount of force used, the environment that it is applied with, what is is used for, the developmental stage of the child etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Correction. I meant to say if you feel that the kid is too stupid to understand why they are grounded. Why do you think they will understand why they are assaulted?
I personally didn't label a kid stupid. i know many adults who are stupid beyond belief. But I haven't seen a stupid child.

They aren't being assaulted though (battery is the term you want, which the child is not a victim of battery either).
With discipline, it's not first about what disciplinary actions are taken, but that the child understands they have done wrong. With my oldest nephew, just moving your arm back was really enough. Some kids spanking will not work with. Some kids grounding will not work. Some kids being put in a corner will not work. Some kids you have to be very creative in coming up with an effective punishment.
Spanking is not something that I myself resort to, except in a few occasions were I did slap but sometimes somethings cannot be avoided (ever see a hand reaching for a boiling pot?) But I was spanked, my siblings were spanked, my parents were spanked, and so on and so forth and any problems any of us have cannot be attributed to spanking.

 

[sojourner]

How about taking the cat away? and ground him for a week. or give him a time out a minute per age. In case he throws a tantrum because of it. which is always possible. Ignore totally and completely, and let him throw his tantrum. In the best case, he will get the message that screaming is not the way to get through to you. In the worst case, he will cry himself to sleep, and at least you will have your peace of mind. You know even as an adult. I Respect people who ignore me when I am out of my mind, more than people who whine, about why something I did or said was somehow wrong. The whiners I tell to **** right off, and leave me alone until they calm down and are ready to talk like people, rather than fight like cats with a mouse.

Ground a toddler for a week??? Sounds ineffective at best.

Screaming? Tantrum? Cry himself to sleep? My kids never, ever needed to do any of those things.

 

[dgirl1986]

Screaming? Tantrum? Cry himself to sleep? My kids never, ever needed to do any of those things.

The only thing my little brother tries is screaming in protest and throwing tantrums. It doesnt work with me though. I firmly tell him to stop and he does. With other family members it is a different story though.

 

[sojourner]

agnostic huh? me too. I guess this topic has more to do with religious cruelty then discipline of children. This cruelty is one of the reasons I changed my views on religion. I still like the basic christian message. But I don't let it define me.

Discipline trauma. Religious cruelty. Tantrums. Screaming. Whining. Crying oneself to sleep.


What a gentle, affirming, idyllic family life you've described here.
Sesame Street? Elm Street!
Thomas the Tank Engine? Trainspotting!
Mr. Rogers? Michael Myers!
Captain Kangaroo? Frankenfurter!
Barney? Howard Stern!

I'm nonplussed.

 

[Rakhel]

It is not a lack of intelligence. it is a lack of cognitive development that seem to have a problem grasping.

There is no end-all be-all guide to parenthood. Not all methods work for every child every time.
I have six kids. Time out works for one but not the others.
Nose in corner works for one but not the others.
One just has to be told where they went wrong. This doesn't work for the others. Grounding works half the time on any of them.
One all you have to say is "no" and he gets the point. Does this work on the others? Hell no!!
One had to be physically restrained to keep her from hurting herself.
Even the one that gets spanked, this method only works when she wants it too.
Take away something like a field trip or a prized toy. Only works until they get the reward back and we are back where we started.
Hell. There are times I put myself in time out just to understand why and what they did and why the punishment did or didn't work.

Look. Kids develop mentally at different ages. This does not mean that a 2yro is going to understand what is he is doing wrong. Probably saw the cat as a stuffed toy and figured, "HEY! I wonder if I can get the stuffing out of this toy too." Saw mommy's face twist and figured, "mommy's being silly when I do this. I'm going to do it again."
Mommy tried method one. didn't work so she moved on to method two. (sorry. scratch out mommy and replace with sister)
This is parenting. Trial and error.

Keep in mind. I have been a mother for 21 years.
So far, I have one success(the one I spanked) and one I call "complicated"(she wasn't spanked).

 

[sojourner]

You make a freaking room somewhere where you can see him and he can see you. And you tell him to sit there for 2 minutes to calm down and behave properly.

THAT always works. Banish him someplace where he can see you ignore him and watch you doing fun stuff. Talk about cruel!

 

[sojourner]

I don't label children. Most pro spankers do. They say you can't reason with a two year old because they are stupid. I keep hearing that from pro spankers at least 4 times a week. So I said, if they are that stupid (which I don't believe of course) and they can't understand why they are being put in time out. What makes you think they will understand why they are being assaulted? But I don't think children are stupid. I know many adults who are stupid. But so far, I haven't seen a stupid child.

"Pro spanker?"

 

[sojourner]

I am just suggesting alternatives that ensure that a child won't feel like ****, which is what spanking does, whether you like to believe it or not.

Nooo. You'd rather lock 'em in a room where you can taunt them with your ignorance of them and your freedom.

 

[NocLue]

THAT always works. Banish him someplace where he can see you ignore him and watch you doing fun stuff. Talk about cruel!

you gave more replies to my thread than anyone else. Give them a chance too. Enough.

 

[sojourner]

you gave more replies to my thread than anyone else. Give them a chance too. Enough.

Well, I guess you put me in timeout!

I think I'd rather just be spanked...

 

[fallingblood]

You don't send them anywhere. You make a freaking room somewhere where you can see him and he can see you. And you tell him to sit there for 2 minutes to calm down and behave properly. It will take time. Why not make the effort?

And this is suppose to help for how long? And how many times do you think you will have to tell that child to sit back down? If the child is two (I'm assuming two as you said two minutes), it will be dozens upon dozens of times. Why? Because the child often sees it as a game.

And does that type of punishment work for everything? Nope. Do you have children yourself?

And again, if the child does something quite bad, why not give him a spanking? Why not slap his fingers? I have slapped my child's hand a number of times, and it gets the point across very quickly. It's much better than giving the child a timeout, and after struggling with them for half an hour, in which time the child forgets why they are being punished, just to have that child do what is wrong again. And in some cases, it can save that child from serious injury, such as burning themselves by trying to grab something hot, or being bitten by a dog because they are playing too rough.