why do people assume spanking is not harmful?

[sojourner]

It is not a lack of intelligence. it is a lack of cognitive development that seem to have a problem grasping.

There is no end-all be-all guide to parenthood. Not all methods work for every child every time.
I have six kids. Time out works for one but not the others.
Nose in corner works for one but not the others.
One just has to be told where they went wrong. This doesn't work for the others. Grounding works half the time on any of them.
One all you have to say is "no" and he gets the point. Does this work on the others? Hell no!!
One had to be physically restrained to keep her from hurting herself.
Even the one that gets spanked, this method only works when she wants it too.
Take away something like a field trip or a prized toy. Only works until they get the reward back and we are back where we started.
Hell. There are times I put myself in time out just to understand why and what they did and why the punishment did or didn't work.

Look. Kids develop mentally at different ages. This does not mean that a 2yro is going to understand what is he is doing wrong. Probably saw the cat as a stuffed toy and figured, "HEY! I wonder if I can get the stuffing out of this toy too." Saw mommy's face twist and figured, "mommy's being silly when I do this. I'm going to do it again."
Mommy tried method one. didn't work so she moved on to method two. (sorry. scratch out mommy and replace with sister)
This is parenting. Trial and error.

Keep in mind. I have been a mother for 21 years.
So far, I have one success(the one I spanked) and one I call "complicated"(she wasn't spanked).

Now this makes sense!

 

[sojourner]

And this is suppose to help for how long? And how many times do you think you will have to tell that child to sit back down? If the child is two (I'm assuming two as you said two minutes), it will be dozens upon dozens of times. Why? Because the child often sees it as a game.

And does that type of punishment work for everything? Nope. Do you have children yourself?

And again, if the child does something quite bad, why not give him a spanking? Why not slap his fingers? I have slapped my child's hand a number of times, and it gets the point across very quickly. It's much better than giving the child a timeout, and after struggling with them for half an hour, in which time the child forgets why they are being punished, just to have that child do what is wrong again. And in some cases, it can save that child from serious injury, such as burning themselves by trying to grab something hot, or being bitten by a dog because they are playing too rough.

Simple, efficient, and dispassionate. How cruel of you!

 

[LuisDantas]

I find spanking utterly despicable and destructive, myself.

Alice Miller's books are an interesting read on this matter.

 

[Curious George]

Well, I was spanked, thrown, and hit in the face. And I am decidedly not screwed up. But that is only my experience, I know plenty like me and plenty more who are not screwed up that.suffered much more abuse, and still I know plenty more who are not screwed up that suffered less severe punishments but which still included spankings. My point here is that we cannot include case studies of people to make causal statements about spankings or punishments. The best we can do is create statistical data and speak generally about spankings. The effects, both immediate and lasting will vary child to child, this variance would further be exacerbated by other variables such as when, by whom, where etc.

I am sorry your parents choices have affected you so negatively, but if you wish to affect societal change you should focus on research and staristics to share not on your personal testimony. Once you establish that rational side, then you can bring in your personal testimony for the.added.emotional layers. So I would suggest to get people to understand you should hit their heads and then their hearts.

 

[Vinayaka]

A few studies cited here .... The case against spanking

 

[Curious George]

A few studies cited here .... The case against spanking

Not sure if those studies were for me or for the original poster. If they were for me I hope I did not convey the thought that such studies are lacking in the accessible media. My point was that people who are troubled by spankings and wish to change that facet of our society should read, understand, and communicate the statistics before appealing emotionally.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not sure if those studies were for me or for the original poster. If they were for me I hope I did not convey the thought that such studies are lacking in the accessible media. My point was that people who are troubled by spankings and wish to change that facet of our society should read, understand, and communicate the statistics before appealing emotionally.

I'm troubled by it, and as a former teacher, I refused to strap a kid based on the parent's suggestion, and I gave out pamphlets that showed stats that showed it to be ineffective. But it's really hard to change someone when they have really solid programming for it. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Well, I got good lickin's and it didn't do me no darn harm." So I don't know it I had any effect at all, and possibly the opposite, because some parents had the attitude, "Well, I'll show that guy who's boss." and then the next day I had the moral decision whether or not to call in social services.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm 200% pro-spanking, as it's clear that a lack of discipline has lead to this glaring issue of most kids being obnoxious, rude, disrespectful, ill-mannered, snot-nosed brats that the rest of society has to deal with, and they grow up to be the typical douche bags we gripe about. People need to take responsibility for what they elect to squeeze out of their crotch. And if it's not effective, you're not doing it hard enough.

 

[Curious George]

I'm troubled by it, and as a former teacher, I refused to strap a kid based on the parent's suggestion, and I gave out pamphlets that showed stats that showed it to be ineffective. But it's really hard to change someone when they have really solid programming for it. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Well, I got good lickin's and it didn't do me no darn harm." So I don't know it I had any effect at all, and possibly the opposite, because some parents had the attitude, "Well, I'll show that guy who's boss." and then the next day I had the moral decision whether or not to call in social services.

Yes, and I was worried that my pov was not clear enough. Whether we say "didn't do me no harm" or "it screwed me up" we are talking about case studies with a very large number of uncontrolled variables. While personal experience is helpful in an emotional appeal, it does very little rationally besides illustrating under certain conditions for a certain person something, such as lasting harm from spankings, is possible.

 

[Curious George]

I'm 200% pro-spanking, as it's clear that a lack of discipline has lead to this glaring issue of most kids being obnoxious, rude, disrespectful, ill-mannered, snot-nosed brats that the rest of society has to deal with, and they grow up to be the typical douche bags we gripe about. People need to take responsibility for what they elect to squeeze out of their crotch. And if it's not effective, you're not doing it hard enough.

And I 300% disagree

 

[Father Heathen]

And I 300% disagree

Spanking builds character.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, and I was worried that my pov was not clear enough. Whether we say "didn't do me no harm" or "it screwed me up" we are talking about case studies with a very large number of uncontrolled variables. While personal experience is helpful in an emotional appeal, it does very little rationally besides illustrating under certain conditions for a certain person something, such as lasting harm from spankings, is possible.

You can show people piles and piles of stats. There are many countries in Europe that have banned it. The kids there are no worse behaved than anywhere else, and most likely better. All schools (except maybe some private schools) in Canada no longer use corporal; punishment. Study after study has shown it to be ineffective. When a society feels that the very way to survive is to be ruled by the fear instinct, then that's what you get. Somehow the personal experience just outweighs any stats at all, in a person's mind. Unfortunately, in some societies, this attitude about beating your kid to make him behave also is horizontally transferred to beating your wife when she steps out of line.

Look how long it took to start a reduction in smoking. The doctors, the scientists, the researchers found links to cancer. Still people said, "My Grandfather lived to 95 and he smoked all his whole life." I'm sorry, but the statistical relevance of a sample of one is zero.

This paper http://www.epinions.com/content_4499546244?sb=1 talks of the combined statistics of over 100 studies. It was 2005. Still, 8 years later, the pro-spanking lobby says it's innuendo and liberal rhetoric. But then so is global warming.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Spanking is considered child abuse and is thus illegal here, and yet this country doesn't have less well-behaved children than any other country. Why allow corporal punishment towards children when it's illegal towards adults?

 

[Father Heathen]

When children act out, it's because they subconsciously desire a spanking.

 

[Curious George]

Spanking is considered child abuse and is thus illegal here, and yet this country doesn't have less well-behaved children than any other country. Why allow corporal punishment towards children when it's illegal towards adults?

Some countries do allow corporal punishment of adults.

But beyond that, I cannot stand behind your rationale simply because I do not believe that adults and children are the same. Otherwise I would also have to advocate for life in prison without the possibility of parole for a five year old, and no matter how heinous the crime I could not see putting a five year old in jail without the possibility of parole.

 

[Curious George]

When children act out, it's because they subconsciously desire a spanking.

Even if this were true, a.child who desires chocolate for dinner every night should not get it

 

[Vinayaka]

Spanking is considered child abuse and is thus illegal here, and yet this country doesn't have less well-behaved children than any other country. Why allow corporal punishment towards children when it's illegal towards adults?

I think it's far worse to hit a child. Assault in some self-defense thing, I can see. If I get a home invader, I might use force. (He'd have to be might old and slow though.) But on a little kid? Why? It's some sort of perverse sadistic ingrained mechanism.

 

[Father Heathen]

Even if this were true, a.child who desires chocolate for dinner every night should not get it

If we're comparing a few slaps on the butt to an "abusive beating", then we can compare chocolate to vegetables.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it's far worse to hit a child. Assault in some self-defense thing, I can see. If I get a home invader, I might use force. (He'd have to be might old and slow though.) But on a little kid? Why? It's some sort of perverse sadistic ingrained mechanism.

What a laughable exaggeration. By your logic a 15 min "time out" on the couch for being naughty is to be considered a form of imprisonment.

 

[dgirl1986]

I'm 200% pro-spanking, as it's clear that a lack of discipline has lead to this glaring issue of most kids being obnoxious, rude, disrespectful, ill-mannered, snot-nosed brats that the rest of society has to deal with, and they grow up to be the typical douche bags we gripe about. People need to take responsibility for what they elect to squeeze out of their crotch. And if it's not effective, you're not doing it hard enough.

I am for spanking, but in special circumstances...like when they do something that could really put them or another being in danger and not in an agressive way. A smack on the hand or something.

When I was a kid, we got the big red spoon on the butt for being cheeky lol.

Also...that thing with the crotch put disturbing images in my mind.