Why do so many need a god ?.

[buddhist]

... you are going to be judged by the 10 Commandments whether you reject the Bible or not.

Perhaps, but that's only if the god of the Bible is the one true god ... there is no personally verifiable evidence that that is so, however.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In a nutshell Carlita, I ''define'' God (for want of a better word but using your word lol) as a Love like no other. And Life, like no other. Before my deconversion, I described God as Scripture does...through an indoctrinated lens, if you will. But, now? He is Love and Life, like no other. And if you experience this in your lifetime, you'll know I mean.

I don't know much more than that...if I did...I'd be God.

Thank you. I think back when I "experienced" god (for want of a better word than using your word ), I defined god as, well, life. When I was baptized, it was like I had an old self, and after confession, I went through baptism and came to a new self. Then I started reading more about the "bread of life" and connecting it to the Eucharist. Then took communion, and thought. God is life.

Granted, it's not the definition I have today; but, I never really got God is Love. Maybe life loves you but I thought it was more you love life. Maybe seeing life as a being and it having feelings or making it a person makes it personal, I dont know.

Can't figure the connection. Tryin.

Thank you though.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My worldview, lifestyle, and entire being are driven by my belief in God. Are you asking why I believe in God so strongly that I define my life and being by that God?

More of how did you know god if not based on your experiences and scripture? Do you see god as an individual belief? If it's universal, then his existence wouldn't be hidden from some and not from others. Facts can be observed by all. Experiences only by those who experienced them.

I understand how one defines their life by god. I kinda don't understand how one bases their relationship with god only by experiences, reading, and how they connect what they observe with a subjective lens rather than an objective one (meaning univesal knowledge).

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Perhaps, but that's only if the god of the Bible is the one true god ... there is no personally verifiable evidence that that is so, however.

The evidence is found in His 4th Commandment,,Remember the Sabbath.... it is in that Commandment that we find the seal of God. That He is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Seas and all that is in them. Exodus 20:11

"Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." Isaiah 43:10

 

[psychoslice]

I would say It's the human need for iconic dependency on something/anything that represents superior qualities that one admires and strives for, but themselves ultimately fall short of that achievement.

Having a God or similar icon makes for a wonderful coping mechanism and a motivational platform. It's really hard to go on one's own, so having a God makes for an ideal fit.

Yes and so again its really just a crutch, and that's fine if it helps people, just as many love their sport and live for that sport, they even worship their gods in sport.

 

[psychoslice]

You nailed it! A "tradition" slur of the Japanese has been to accuse them of being "slippery", "deceitful", and "lying". Apparently, the slur originated in early Western misunderstandings of the Japanese cultural view that a person, in effect, has multiple identities or selves. Japanese scholars and apologists often responded to the slur by making the very same point that you have: That even Westerners adopt a different attitude with their peers than they do with their parents. I gather, however, that the Japanese are much more thorough and profound in that regard than Westerners.

By the way, I once witnessed a Japanese woman transform herself from a traditional, very demure and shy Japanese lady to an upbeat, energetic, and quite personable Western woman. She was the translator for a group of businessmen. As long as she was in the company of the men, she behaved exactly like a Japanese lady. She kept her eyes downcast, spoke in the customary manner of a Japanese lady (that is, she spoke as if she was breathless), and so on. Despite the fact that I was at the time married to a Japanese woman, and knew a little bit about the culture, I was still fooled: I thought I was seeing the "true her" -- as if that's all she was.

But almost as soon as the men left, she got up, crossed the room, and was at once indistinguishable from an outgoing, extroverted American college student. The whole transformation occurred within her walking twenty feet.

Yes, I suppose its all just conditioning, just as the westerners are conditioned to behave the way they are, and hence we can be conditioned by our beliefs.

 

[Scott C.]

More of how did you know god if not based on your experiences and scripture? Do you see god as an individual belief? If it's universal, then his existence wouldn't be hidden from some and not from others. Facts can be observed by all. Experiences only by those who experienced them.

I understand how one defines their life by god. I kinda don't understand how one bases their relationship with god only by experiences, reading, and how they connect what they observe with a subjective lens rather than an objective one (meaning univesal knowledge).

I could not possibly deny my experiences, inspirations, scriptures, etc, and stop believing in God, simply because he has not manifested himself in the universal manner that you suggest. The fact that others are not convinced or require a different kind of evidence, does not deter me. But then, I see myself as accountable to God for how I react to my personal witness of him, and not accountable to anyone else.

 

[psychoslice]

I'm not sure what we're debating here. If a thing exists which we need, then we need that thing. Are you suggesting that a life force is superior to a God who we love, respect, obey, and worship? I say the one that actually exists is superior to the other. Perhaps you're saying that you prefer that there be no God, and that there be a life force, so you don't have to be bothered with worship. For me it's not a question of which is superior or which I prefer. I believe based on my personal experience that there is a God upon whom we all depend. I see God as full of love and mercy and goodness. I feel love for this God and am naturally in awe and I naturally give thanks without coercion. I didn't choose either consciously or unconsciously to believe in a God who does not exist, because somehow I need that belief to be happy. Rather, since God does indeed exist, knowing him brings happiness.

Yes I don't have any beliefs in a personal god, as I said there is just the life force whatever you want to call it, I can love all that has been created from this force, for me there is no need to worship it and pray to it, because I cannot change it because I am also it. For me to see god as you do reduces what is into what is not, I rather just leave it all to what is, and flow with that, not reduce it to a belief system.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"The entirety of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous judgments endures forever." Psalm 119:160

You can attempt to marginalize God and the Bible all you want. But you are going to be judged by the 10 Commandments whether you reject the Bible or not.

I would be very appreciative if you read this; because, I do not insult anyone's faith, god/s, scriptures, etc. My questions are based on the purpose of RF and if this makes you uncomfortable, we can talk about why? Maybe it's a misassumption of my intent for my post; I don't know.

I don't insult god nor scripture. Please don't think that.

My question was: what facts can we use from your belief that will be a foundation everyone can agree to base our conversations on?

For example (please read). If you are in a court room and I am the procecutor and you are the defendant, we cannot present evidence that is based on a one-sided law in my or your favor. That would mean the case results would be in my or your favor. Instead, American law we have a jury and we try to have objective standards to which we base evidence and arguments on. We have a common foundation. So both of us-procecutor and defender--when presenting our evidence, it won't be one sided.
​

I hope you read this since it took me awhile to explain it as briefly as I could.

In our conversation, my belief and your belief cannot be the foundation for our conversation. The reality or facts that govern the universe--that is universal knowledge--is the "law" or foundation of our conversation. If you have been raised in your faith, then it would be impossible to see that universal knowledge. If not, then I am sure you can take time to understand my point.

When I present my evidence X and you present your evidence Y, we base our arguments on universal knowledge-Z. That is how one presents their sids of the argument, they use that foundation-Z to base their arguments on. It won't be one-sided.
​

This cannot happen if the Law is in your favor rather than universal (not mine, not yours, everyone).

Anyway. I don't know if you read or understood this. If you did, thank you.

My question (not attack) was: what facts can You, Me, Sunstone, Quin, Smart Guy, Jane, Joe, and Bob can we all agree on -- good foundation--- in order to present our (yours and mine) evidence (or beliefs) in a way that does not favor a one-sided debate?

If you consider this belittling your faith and the Bible, I have no clue how you got that other than you think I'm lying? Never liked assumptions.

I am just trying to be nice. Compassion and humility is a part of my faith. I hope it is for yours.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I could not possibly deny my experiences, inspirations, scriptures, etc, and stop believing in God, simply because he has not manifested himself in the universal manner that you suggest. The fact that others are not convinced or require a different kind of evidence, does not deter me. But then, I see myself as accountable to God for how I react to my personal witness of him, and not accountable to anyone else.

Do you feel god needs to be universal knowledge in order for him to be real/fact or can it be subjective and still be real/fact?

I'm not asking you to deny your experiences. I'm just wondering if you experience god outside of scripture and personal experiences.

For example, I believe the Buddha's law is a fact. It is not a belief. It is real. I believe this because of experiences, of course. What I do is more important than what I believe. I believe this because of our sutras/scriptures of course. How would I know anything about the Law or nature of life without reading what the Buddha said about it.

However, I see this in other people. I see this in nature. I see this from other people's experiences. I see this by observation. I see this in reading other books that have nothing to do with my faith while others that have nothing to do with religion. I see the Law in everything.

It is universal because every person knows that when they make a action there is a reaction and it can be a benefit or a consequence. That's the bare bones of the Buddha's teachings. Cause and affect.

That aside.

edit

With what you believe, do you (or is your faith able to, maybe I should say), see god as real to you (as the Law is real to me) by universal knowledge (for example, as I listed my points above)?

If not, is that something that's impossible?
Is it something that Christianity does not focus on? (Universal knowledge)

I'm not questioning your belief.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

In our conversation, my belief and your belief cannot be the foundation for our conversation.

The Bible is my source for truth. I need God,, because I realize that I cannot exist without God. He is the Creator. He sustains all life on the earth. He is the Redeemer, the Savior of man.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bible is my source for truth. I need God,, because I realize that I cannot exist without God. He is the Creator. He sustains all life on the earth. He is the Redeemer, the Savior of man.

One more question. To wrap up, are you saying in brief that it is impossible to find a common foundation because it's you can't see outside your own perspective? (It's not an attack)

 

[psychoslice]

The Bible is my source for truth. I need God,, because I realize that I cannot exist without God. He is the Creator. He sustains all life on the earth. He is the Redeemer, the Savior of man.

Hey, a SDA, I was a SDA for many years, and myself I found the opposite to be true, I can do without god, or Jesus, I call it, growing up spiritually.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

To wrap up, are you saying in brief that it is impossible to find a common foundation because it's you can't see outside your own perspective? (It's not an attack)

No,, I'm saying that you will not be able to separate me from the Bible. That seems to be the angle that you are attempting to work. It ain't happening.lol

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No,, I'm saying that you will not be able to separate me from the Bible. That seems to be the angle that you are attempting to work. It ain't happening.lol

lol Nope. I'm not. I'm wondering if you can step from your shoes into another persons without feeling you are separating yourself from the Bible while doing so.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

I'm wondering if you can step from your shoes into another persons without feeling you are separating yourself from the Bible while doi

No. I have shoes of my own,, why would I want to wear yours?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No. I have shoes of my own,, why would I want to wear yours?

lol I have a friend who cant and doesn't want to do that too. For her, she feels insecurity as if she'd loose her faith or doubt it. Some people think that actually seeing from another person's point of view--think of others--is compromising their faith and it becomes uncomfortable. Others, I have seen in person, find going into another person's shoes loosing their ego.

I am not like that. I was told that that is why I have a soft shell because I don't like saying "my belief is the Truth and everyone else is false." That mentality doesn't make sense to me.

Taking religion out, that's like my not seeing in another person's shoes who is going through a troublesome issue. Maybe I need to put ME aside for awhile and focus on another person.

With religion, it gets to personal. It could be many reasons. None of the reasons really makes sense to me morally. Logically, many I understand.

 

[MARCELLO]

Because He does help or the concept of Him helps. I had my true Christmas for the first time in my life this year. I attended church,chanted,cried ,donated with my whole heart. I keep a notebook to ask questions to God and I get the answers promptly.

I am drinking much less since this xmas . So? yes, He helps....

 

[Sundance]

My guess is that some people looking out into the vastness of the universe, and they begin to ask: “what kind of higher being or force has beautifully orchestrated all of this?”, whereas some people focus more on the sentiments involved, especially with the idea of a Personal God or gods. Anyway, why does it matter? What does it mean to you?

 

[buddhist]

The evidence is found in His 4th Commandment,,Remember the Sabbath.... it is in that Commandment that we find the seal of God. That He is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Seas and all that is in them. Exodus 20:11

"Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me." Isaiah 43:10

I'm not sure I follow. How exactly is the "Sabbath" evidence of the "seal of God"?