Why do some people who hate Jews love Israel?

[Epic Beard Man]

You didn't show any evidence at all! You referenced an opinion piece by a Leftist activist Jewish professor.

So we're politicizing evidence now? So anything that progressives put out is by default false?

Y I've never ever encountered pro-Israel anti Jews!

Of course, you haven't just as I've never encountered a man-eating spaghetti monster.

If anything Christians believe the Jews to be Gods Chosen people.

Good for you. In my worldview, Jews are finite and mortal just like any other people. Not special in my book. No magical powers or nothing that indicates anything of Divine Providence. We are all specks of dust in this vast universe. I mean I challenge the notion of "God's Chosen People" and "Light to the world" because if such were true, peace would exist. How many decades since 1948 and they're still fighting over there? Humns put too much stock in themselves.

They hope for a change of heart among Jews and eventual adoption of Jesus as their Messiah.

Which, in itself is problematic. According to Jewish scholarship, a Messiah is one who completes his mission "during their lifetime." According to rabbinical commentary, peace on earth would solidify the mission of the Messiah. Well, there was no peace on earth during Jesus' lifetime, and after. In essence, Jesus failed his mission thus was not considered a Messiah.

There is an odd kinship and desire to protect Israel and Jews from her enemies.

Evangelicals don't sincerely care about Jews. The irony in all of this is the so-called peace-loving Christians want to destroy a Holy site to bring about the "end of days."

 

[Colt]

False.

They were living in peace for a thousand years or more. The infighting was between the Jews and the Christians. It changed in the 20th century.

So I think you should make a little bit of research.

Muslim–Jewish wars and military conflicts

Main articles: Islam and antisemitism and Islam and war

In the early days of Islam, according to Islamic sources, a Jewish tribe of Arabia (see Banu Qurayza) was alleged to have broken the peace treaty with the early Muslims, resulting in the execution of over 700 Jews. Many of the surviving women were subsequently taken by Muslim soldiers; one of these, Safiyya bint Huyayy whose husband Kenana ibn al-Rabi had also been killed, was taken by Muhammad as his wife.[85] There were notable persecutions of Jews such as the 1033 Fez massacre, 1066 Granada massacre and 1834 looting of Safed. In the late 19th century, the Zionist movement sought to re-establish a Jewish homeland in historic Israel, within the historical territory of Palestine, also known as Zion, also known as the Holy Land. This created tensions between the Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs, leading to, beginning in 1947, a civil war and the subsequent exodus of many Palestinian Arabs and many Jews from Muslim countries. In 1948, the state of Israel was declared, and shortly after its declaration of independence, the Arab States declared war on Israel, in which the Israelis were victorious. After the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, twelve more wars were fought between the Arab States and Israel. The Arab–Israeli conflict has weakened Islamic–Jewish relations severely.

Looks like its you who are uneducated?



Ishmael in Islam
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_in_Islam#searchInput

Ismaeyl
إسماعيل
Ishmael

Ismā‘īl's name in Islamic calligraphy
Born 2424 BH
(c. 1800 BCE)[citation needed]
Canaan
Died (aged 136)
Mecca, Arabia

Ishmael (Arabic: إسماعيل‎, Ismaeyl) is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as Abraham's (Ibrahim) son, born to Hagar (Hajar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad. He also became associated with Mecca and the construction of the Kaaba. These sources include the Quran, Quranic commentary (tafsir), hadith, historiographic collections like that of Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, and Isra'iliyat (Islamic texts about Biblical or ancient Israelite figures that originate from Jewish or Christian sources).[1][2]:13

 

[Colt]

So we're politicizing evidence now? So anything that progressives put out is by default false?



Of course, you haven't just as I've never encountered a man-eating spaghetti monster.



Good for you. In my worldview, Jews are finite and mortal just like any other people. Not special in my book. No magical powers or nothing that indicates anything of Divine Providence. We are all specks of dust in this vast universe. I mean I challenge the notion of "God's Chosen People" and "Light to the world" because if such were true, peace would exist. How many decades since 1948 and they're still fighting over there? Humns put too much stock in themselves.



Which, in itself is problematic. According to Jewish scholarship, a Messiah is one who completes his mission "during their lifetime." According to rabbinical commentary, peace on earth would solidify the mission of the Messiah. Well, there was no peace on earth during Jesus' lifetime, and after. In essence, Jesus failed his mission thus was not considered a Messiah.



Evangelicals don't sincerely care about Jews. The irony in all of this is the so-called peace-loving Christians want to destroy a Holy site to bring about the "end of days."

We can see from your prejudice towards Christians that this insincere thread is just about you stirring up controversy.

Your failing psychic powers and introspective claims about Christians not really loving Jews says much more about you than the truth.

 

[Left Coast]

Anecdotal experiences are fine, however, they're not universal. It reminds me of people who say "I grew up in a town and I've never experienced racism." Just because YOU never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere.

I agree of course.

I mean you can look at the KKK. They consider themselves Christian. They hate Jews, but love Jesus even though he is historically Jewish.

They're also not Israel fans in the way your typical Evangelical Republican is, though.
That was my point. Your typical neo-Nazi is very critical of Israel and Zionism, which they blame for a myriad of the world's problems.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

We can see from your hatred of Christians.

Oh so now we are putting words in people's mouths now?

that this insincere thread is just about you stirring up controversy.

This thread was inspired by the following:

Wait, does this video count since David Pakman is not only an Argentinian Jew, he is also an agonistic-atheist.

Your failing psychic powers.

"mmmhmm special you are"

-Master Yoda

Didn't know I had psychic powers. Does that mean I'm an X-men now?

 

[firedragon]

Muslim–Jewish wars and military conflicts

Main articles: Islam and antisemitism and Islam and war

In the early days of Islam, according to Islamic sources, a Jewish tribe of Arabia (see Banu Qurayza) was alleged to have broken the peace treaty with the early Muslims, resulting in the execution of over 700 Jews. Many of the surviving women were subsequently taken by Muslim soldiers; one of these, Safiyya bint Huyayy whose husband Kenana ibn al-Rabi had also been killed, was taken by Muhammad as his wife.[85] There were notable persecutions of Jews such as the 1033 Fez massacre, 1066 Granada massacre and 1834 looting of Safed. In the late 19th century, the Zionist movement sought to re-establish a Jewish homeland in historic Israel, within the historical territory of Palestine, also known as Zion, also known as the Holy Land. This created tensions between the Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs, leading to, beginning in 1947, a civil war and the subsequent exodus of many Palestinian Arabs and many Jews from Muslim countries. In 1948, the state of Israel was declared, and shortly after its declaration of independence, the Arab States declared war on Israel, in which the Israelis were victorious. After the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, twelve more wars were fought between the Arab States and Israel. The Arab–Israeli conflict has weakened Islamic–Jewish relations severely.

Looks like its you who are uneducated?



Ishmael in Islam
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ismaeyl
إسماعيل
Ishmael

Ismā‘īl's name in Islamic calligraphy
Born 2424 BH
(c. 1800 BCE)[citation needed]
Canaan
Died (aged 136)
Mecca, Arabia

Ishmael (Arabic: إسماعيل‎, Ismaeyl) is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as Abraham's (Ibrahim) son, born to Hagar (Hajar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad. He also became associated with Mecca and the construction of the Kaaba. These sources include the Quran, Quranic commentary (tafsir), hadith, historiographic collections like that of Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, and Isra'iliyat (Islamic texts about Biblical or ancient Israelite figures that originate from Jewish or Christian sources).[1][2]:13

I said research. Not quick googling of "fighting between muslims and jews" and finding wikipedia

 

[Colt]

Oh so now we are putting words in people's mouths now?



This thread was inspired by the following:

Wait, does this video count since David Pakman is not only an Argentinian Jew, he is also an agonistic-atheist.



"mmmhmm special you are"

-Master Yoda

Didn't know I had psychic powers. Does that mean I'm an X-men now?

You just aren't in touch with your anti-Christian bias. I watched that Leftist guy in the video giving an opinion with no evidence to back it up. Its a common theme with your sources.

The so-called Christians who love Israel but hate Jews remains elusive outside of your imagination.

 

[Colt]

I said research. Not quick googling of "fighting between muslims and jews" and finding wikipedia

Its a quick, common knowledge way to debunk your false claims.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You just aren't in touch with your anti-Christian bias. I watched that Leftist guy in the video giving an opinion with no evidence to back it up. Its a common theme with your sources.

The so-called Christians who love Israel but hate Jews remains elusive outside of your imagination.

Ok. So where are your links to contradict mine. Where are your videos? So because he is a "leftist Jew" his opinion on the matter (mind you, he has a lot of antisemitism thrown his way on the show) doesn't matter?

Can you substantiate your claim outside the realm of opinions? Like a research article or something verifiable? I suspect you can't. You're one of those "you're wrong, I'm right because you're a leftist" that is usually how right-wing conservative logic works.

 

[firedragon]

Its a quick, common knowledge way to debunk your false claims.

Nope.

Its common knowledge that they lived in harmony for a millennium or more. Of course people can lie through their teeth. And there were conflicts in between. But remember what you said that its an age old conflict because of lineage issues. Thats made up. Untrue.

Read some history on peace between them. Maybe a book by Bernard Lewis. Cohen.

Maybe read Martin Luther - The Jews and their Lies

Pls read some real stuff.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I typically see this among so-called Christians but this behavior applies to anyone of this behavior.

Well, indoctrination overcomes contradiction. Faulty reasoning methods do the same. Here I am not speaking about most Christians, but mainly the conspiracy theorists and extreme fundamentalists. They believe that Jews are secretly running the world and are our enemy but at the same time they support Israel in the middle eastern conflict.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well, indoctrination overcomes contradiction. Faulty reasoning methods do the same. Here I am not speaking about most Christians, but mainly the conspiracy theorists and extreme fundamentalists. They believe that Jews are secretly running the world and are our enemy but at the same time they support Israel in the middle eastern conflict.

This is why I used the phrase "so-called Christians."

 

[Samael_Khan]

This is why I used the phrase "so-called Christians."

Definitely so called Christians. Thing is that Christianity was started by Jews and it was the Jewish leaders that got Jesus executed. So I don't understand why there are Christians who dislike Jews with so much venom.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Definitely so called Christians. Thing is that Christianity was started by Jews and it was the Jewish leaders that got Jesus executed. So I don't understand why there are Christians who dislike Jews with so much venom.

I believe it is largely for conspiratorial reasons.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I believe it is largely for conspiratorial reasons.

Agreed. It seems like the "Christian" nations tended to use the Jews as a common enemy to keep social cohesion.

 

[Colt]

Nope.

Its common knowledge that they lived in harmony for a millennium or more. Of course people can lie through their teeth. And there were conflicts in between. But remember what you said that its an age old conflict because of lineage issues. Thats made up. Untrue.

Read some history on peace between them. Maybe a book by Bernard Lewis. Cohen.

Maybe read Martin Luther - The Jews and their Lies

Pls read some real stuff.

In year 20 of the Muslim era, or the year 641 CE, Muhammad's successor the Caliph Umar decreed that Jews and Christians should be removed from all but the southern and eastern fringes of Arabia—a decree based on the uttering of the Prophet: "Let there not be two religions in Arabia". The two populations in question were the Jews of the Khaybar oasis in the north and the Christians of Najran. Only the Red Sea port of Jeddah was permitted as a "religious quarantine area" and continued to have a small complement of Jewish merchants."

While there was relative peace in their secular interactions during the middle ages, the same wasn't true of their religious belief.

Although Jewish life improved under Islamic rule, an interfaith utopia did not exist.[8]:58 Jews still experienced persecution. Under Islamic Rule, the Pact of Umar was introduced, which protected the Jews but also established them as inferior.[8]:59 Since the 11th century, there have been instances of pogroms against Jews.[11] Examples include the 1066 Granada massacre, the razing of the entire Jewish quarter in the Andalucian city of Granada.[12] In North Africa, there were cases of violence against Jews in the Middle Ages,[13] and in other Arab lands including Egypt,[14] Syria[15] and Yemen[16] Beginning in the 15th century, the Moroccan Jewish population was confined to segregated quarters known as mellahs. In cities, these were surrounded by walls and a fortified gateway. Rural mellahs, however, were separate villages inhabited solely by Jews.[17] The Almohads, who had taken control of much of Islamic Iberia by 1172, were far more fundamentalist in outlook than the Almoravides, and they treated the dhimmis harshly. Jews and Christians were expelled from Morocco and Islamic Spain.[18] Faced with the choice of either death or conversion, some Jews, such as the family of Maimonides, fled south and east to more tolerant Muslim lands, while others went northward to settle in the growing Christian kingdoms.[19][20] In 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in an offensive manner. The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.[21][22]

 

[Nakosis]

I find religious and to some degree political belief incoherent and inconsistent.
Nothing particularly to be surprised about here.

Religious and political ideologies are generally based more on feelings than facts.
While this is true of most things in our life, religion and politics seems to exacerbate it.

 

[firedragon]

In year 20 of the Muslim era, or the year 641 CE, Muhammad's successor the Caliph Umar decreed that Jews and Christians should be removed from all but the southern and eastern fringes of Arabia—a decree based on the uttering of the Prophet: "Let there not be two religions in Arabia". The two populations in question were the Jews of the Khaybar oasis in the north and the Christians of Najran. Only the Red Sea port of Jeddah was permitted as a "religious quarantine area" and continued to have a small complement of Jewish merchants."

While there was relative peace in their secular interactions during the middle ages, the same wasn't true of their religious belief.

Although Jewish life improved under Islamic rule, an interfaith utopia did not exist.[8]:58 Jews still experienced persecution. Under Islamic Rule, the Pact of Umar was introduced, which protected the Jews but also established them as inferior.[8]:59 Since the 11th century, there have been instances of pogroms against Jews.[11] Examples include the 1066 Granada massacre, the razing of the entire Jewish quarter in the Andalucian city of Granada.[12] In North Africa, there were cases of violence against Jews in the Middle Ages,[13] and in other Arab lands including Egypt,[14] Syria[15] and Yemen[16] Beginning in the 15th century, the Moroccan Jewish population was confined to segregated quarters known as mellahs. In cities, these were surrounded by walls and a fortified gateway. Rural mellahs, however, were separate villages inhabited solely by Jews.[17] The Almohads, who had taken control of much of Islamic Iberia by 1172, were far more fundamentalist in outlook than the Almoravides, and they treated the dhimmis harshly. Jews and Christians were expelled from Morocco and Islamic Spain.[18] Faced with the choice of either death or conversion, some Jews, such as the family of Maimonides, fled south and east to more tolerant Muslim lands, while others went northward to settle in the growing Christian kingdoms.[19][20] In 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in an offensive manner. The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.[21][22]

Great cut and paste from wikipedia. Super research.

 

[firedragon]

Religious and political ideologies are generally based more on feelings than facts.

I believe atheistic apologetics are worse.

 

[Harel13]

Great cut and paste from wikipedia. Super research.

So would you define his examples as "rare exceptions" or "utterly false"?