Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[Brian2]

Brian2, God is speaking about JOHN THE BAPTIST preparing the way before the messiah… as you well know the scriptures say:

• “And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Mark 1:4)

And thence came Jesus to be baptised by John … and as he emerged from the water, GOD POURED OUT THE TOTALITY OF HIS SPIRIT on Jesus.

Are you saying that YHWH poured our His spirit onto YHWH?

Why? How?

Malachi 3:1 “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the YHWH of hosts.

YHWH sent His messenger (John the Baptist) before YHWH ("me" in the sentence above)
The Lord whom you seek, the messenger of the covenant (Jesus the Messiah) will come to his temple (God's Temple in Jerusalem).

The Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism to gift Him for the start of His public ministry.

 

[Mister Emu]

I simply did not want anyone else claiming that Jesus is called ‘[a] YHWH’ AT THE END OF TIME.

What is '[a] YWHW'? Are there more than one? Are you saying Jesus is YHWH at the end of time(having the name above all names) but is not at the beginning of time when He created all things, including time itself?

What do you believe about the proposition that God is temporally omnipresent?

Also, that is not what you said, which was that it cannot be shown that the name above all names is YHWH. Is YHWH the name above all names?

 

[Kenny]

Brian2, there’s a name that worthy of those who violate the truth of the scriptures and grieve the spirit of God.

I know you are angry - your posts have gone past the joke stage

Ok - I know your a little upset and nervous - - understandably so - but do check who you are addressing since I’m not @Brian2

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yes, and it was Joshua (Yeshua), Son on Nun, who saved the Israelites into the land flowing with milk and honey.

I don't necessarily disagree with that meaning for Joshua son of Nun.

I hear you. There is a caveat. There there remain wild beasts and stinging bees in the Israel of scripture. These are mentioned in Kings, such as when some children are attacked by a bear. If there are wild beasts then the people have not fully attained peace. (Lev 26:6) In addition some Israelites of a doomed generation are told "You shall never enter my rest." (Deut 1:35). The history of Israel is fraught with invasions, too, and exiles. It is like some are still wandering the wilderness even after they officially enter their land. This point about Joshua not leading Israel into rest is a point of contention raised by the author of Hebrews chapter 4. Its not a very clear or strong point, but it is canon.

I will allow that Joshua might also be considered YHWH. All I'm saying is that the angel calls Jesus this name in Matthew 1. It is called The Name, and the people are called by that name. There are plenty of indications that it functions like a family name.

 

[rational experiences]

No science exists.

Just nature's Life.

Mens brain was changed by star fall hit introduced to his conversion ideas. Ignored ice mass isn't his possession it's supportive only.

Design science.

First they design cities.

Then design used buildings in its science activation. Said gods buildings...used in active participation science.

That advice says how dangerous science was as humans buildings need stable structures. Science temples blew up.

Placing cities built in precarious science caused structural weakening. Basic human advice.

So next men say O I thought by my human mind a circle. I however factor it a number.

O circles and factoring man's sciences god. Angles.

Angels he said are God's. Reactions of O collapsing.

Chemistry.

Humans chemistry he looks at exists isn't reacted. All the pretty colours.

By angles as letters.
By design the O angle within.

By points the angles. Letters angles given numerical function.

YHWH calculus point functioning converting man's only scientific wisdom. Underground applied to mass. Casement pressures not earths ground mass.

Activated mountain mass to shift conversion. Earthquakes carpenter tectonic meaning.

Doing mini attacks to mass underground technology.

As God above is mass. Mass heavens with space pressures space heat causes all changes not O calculus.

A reaction is t opening it was collapse. A relativity lesson he learnt afterwards.

About what is god actually...mass only.

As what is gods activity isn't man of sciences activity just machines. Phi O calculus not any collapse first as phi.

Said no man is God legal.

So God caused lightning by being mass.

Phi never did.

From lightning to I will invent electricity that never existed anywhere. Is just a thought. Man says the heavens needs a huge Influx of snap freeze cooling to reduce its reaction.

I'm not doing wrong it's the saviour.

Funny how only mass owned the saviour first and not man.

 

[Kathryn]

There is always a clue to the fallacy of the states when the poster of the fallacy does not answer what is asked of them as you have done here!

Is ‘Speed demon’ the name of the driver?

‘I am’ is not a name. It is the MEANING of the Hebrew word ‘YHWH’ which is transliterated as any of “Jahvey, Jahweh, Jehovah, Wahvey, YHVH, Yahve, Yahveh, Yahwe, Yahweh”.

Would you say that ‘Rock’ is the personal name of a person?

The disciple/apostle NAMED ‘Peter’ is an Anglosized version of the Greek name, ‘Cephas’, WHICH CARRIES THE MEANING of ‘ROCK’ (or ‘Stone’ and in other versions, ‘Pebble’).

Do you see what is NAME, and what is ‘Meaning of a name’?

What? LOL

 

[rational experiences]

The history Rome learnt as men DNA owner in own nation as new theist.

Grounding Stonehenge fake owning instant blown up in temple activation.

Years later burning star mass returns mind lost. In Rome. Write warnings by experience. Abomination terms.

Review of man's old testimonials first was written by the healed returned conscious biology conscious man.

Stated using maths plus story yes technology nearly destroyed all life on earth. A very long time ago. Don't do it again.

Sacrificed pressurised earth attack huge reaction year 2012 would end my UFO sun cross caused. It was a Jesus return. Meaning a sacrifice also.

Life however would be sacrificed again in causes heavens reaction.

Same advice now man says I'll ignore it. As Maths doesn't lie.

No but natural mass isn't maths.

So Rome got newly attacked said long count 2012 massive event old said was returning won't now occur. New star fall returned it's proof.

2012 prediction was before science was repracticed.

Baha'i not thinking don't say it should not have happened. New star hit.

Nor did Russia.

Two events not involved about long count end of time earth mass pressure change. 2012 known by suns mass gone.

By sun mass depletion Infinite pressure increases upon rock.

Why science said no nuclear ever again and don't add into the return event as we might all die in new caused pressure return.

Space law freezing of rock in space as heat mass is depleted. Known advice about sun nuclear in space pressures.

Obvious warning.

 

[rational experiences]

The history Rome learnt as men DNA owner in own nation as new theist.

Grounding Stonehenge fake owning instant blown up in temple activation.

Years later burning star mass returns mind lost. In Rome. Write warnings by experience. Abomination terms.

Review of man's old testimonials first was written by the healed returned conscious biology conscious man.

Stated using maths plus story yes technology nearly destroyed all life on earth. A very long time ago. Don't do it again.

Sacrificed pressurised earth attack huge reaction year 2012 would end my UFO sun cross caused. It was a Jesus return. Meaning a sacrifice also.

Life however would be sacrificed again in causes heavens reaction.

Same advice now man says I'll ignore it. As Maths doesn't lie.

No but natural mass isn't maths.

So Rome got newly attacked said long count 2012 massive event old said was returning won't now occur. New star fall returned it's proof.

2012 prediction was before science was repracticed.

Baha'i not thinking don't say it should not have happened. New star hit.

Nor did Russia.

Two events not involved about long count end of time earth mass pressure change. 2012 known by suns mass gone.

By sun mass depletion Infinite pressure increases upon rock.

Why science said no nuclear ever again and don't add into the return event as we might all die in new caused pressure return.

Space law freezing of rock in space as heat mass is depleted. Known advice about sun nuclear in space pressures.

Obvious warning.

The realised giant celled alien invasion. Takeover and attack begins in earths garden.

Owning not the small celled biology patterns as seen under a microscope.

Pressurised by spatial heavens in suns law. Natural light. Small laws.

Alien Invasion giant science released cells not even existing before ice. Partial giant cells only. Larger is before than what's observed now. As large celled history didn't have ice on ground and inside of ground mass pressures.

Psychic aware human. In nature's garden knows now lurks the unseen aliens. They hide and are giants.

Microscopic review...I can't see aliens they aren't microscopic that sees microscopic. I might view little portions of an alien cause under my microscope only.

The Invade of Sion.

Why human natural medical conscious psychic is first and correct.

Why psychic predictions are put into visions as movies. Where visions were always seen first in a giant more expansive heavens transmitted story mass.

Why many movies advice was correct.

As psychic mind vision only gets visionary glimpses.

 

[Soapy]

I find in the King James Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God (YHWH Tetragrammaton )
Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied.

Hmm.., Not quite right!!

‘Lord’ (only capital ‘L’) just means like ‘a Master’, ‘one held in the high regard’, ‘a noble one’.

Notice that it is a word that is a title - a title that can be applied to many different entities and depends on the context. So, a man of great wealth or standing in a community can be referred to as ‘Lord’ by his servants, his audience, his wife and children (in a reverential manner!), etc.

Jesus Christ is ‘Lord’ as we fully regard him as our human master, we reverence him for his great wealth and presence as a prophet and messiah of God…

And ‘God’, … that too is a title like ‘Lord’ but much greater. Think of any superlative: ‘Highest’, ‘Greatest’, ‘Most Majestic’, ‘All Mighty’…

There are many entities that can also be ‘God’. ….

….pause….!

‘GOD’ is a TITLE… !!! The word ‘God’ is a title that many entities can be given. It means that such an entity is regarded as the superlative of all such entities:

• ‘A chess grandmaster is GOD [of all chess masters]’
• ‘A Father is GOD [of his own household]’
• ‘A Judge is GOD [in his own courtroom]’
• ‘A Lion is GOD [of all the animals in the jungle]’

Replace ‘God’ in those examples with relevant superlatives.

So you see that we call YHWH “GOD” because we, Jews and Christians, believe that the spiritual person (‘Lord’ (Leader) or ‘Deity’) is the ALL MIGHTY ONE who commands our lives and who created all things.

You can also see ‘Lord God’… this is a reverential multiplication of the mightiness of the deity position: the MASTER GOD.

Hence, you will see in scriptures:

• “I am the God of all whom are called Gods’

Expand this for the understanding:

• “I, YHWH, your worshipful deity, say to you, ‘though there are believed to be among mankind or in the heavens, those whom are also claimed to be mighty ones, there is only one whom you (Israelites) must believe in as your almighty, and that is I, YHWH’”

Even YHWH called some from humanity ‘gods’ (recall that the context means ‘greatest of humanity and would be one’s like, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, The prophets, …) and is in no way claiming that they should be worshipped any more than a family worship the Father, or the Chess masters should worship the Grand Chess master.

‘Lord’, as referring to anyone other than the DEITY God, is never worshipped. But notice that we often, prior to Jesus Christ, referred to God as ‘Lord’, with no embellishments (‘The Lord said to me…’) and this is ok as long as the understanding is that the text is referring to God. But when Jesus came along the distinction is a must.

Trinitarians often use the fact of the usage of ‘Lord’ to refer to the deity God and Jesus Christ, as a way of claiming that Jesus IS ALMIGHTY GOD, but they purposely refuse to take account of the context since their agenda is so ingrained.

So, always refer to the context when the titles of ‘Lord’ and ‘God’ are the subject of a contention:

• YHWH (‘LORD’) can be ‘God’ or ‘Lord God’ or ‘Lord’
• Jesus can only be ‘Lord’, or ‘god’ (a mighty one in humanity)

 

[Soapy]

What is '[a] YWHW'? Are there more than one? Are you saying Jesus is YHWH at the end of time(having the name above all names) but is not at the beginning of time when He created all things, including time itself?

What do you believe about the proposition that God is temporally omnipresent?

Also, that is not what you said, which was that it cannot be shown that the name above all names is YHWH. Is YHWH the name above all names?

What is [a] YHWH?

The Hebrew word, ‘YHWH’ carries the meaning of ‘He who is eternal, he who exists everlastingly, He who never changes…’

The Deity God of the Israelites gave than as a name for himself to illustrate that he is all and more of that description/meaning.

When Jesus accomplishes all that YHWH GOD gave him to do.. at the end of time, when all is accomplished, God changes the status of Jesus to something ‘greater than his brethren’. Humanity of changeable, mutable, SUBJECT to change, can make dramatic changes of minds… such changes means the person made an error!!! A YHWH does not make grave errors!!
By ILLUSTRATION in the book of Esther, the king, Xerxes has an edict written in his name by Haman, whom he authorised to make edicts in the kings name. The edict was to kill all the Jews in the country. When Xerxes discovers that his queen, Esther, was actually a Jew, Xerxes executed Haman BUT COULD NOT RETRACT the edict since it was made in the kings name and ‘the king cannot be seen to change his mind’ over such a matter. A Godly man, uncle to Esther, Mordeciah, provided a way around this: Xerxes allowed Mordeciah to write another edict in the kings name that allowed the Jews to fight the killers and save themselves - which they did and that episode is called ‘Purim’.

Jesus says that he is given (obviously a prophesy) the name that is above all names. Clearly that name cannot be greater than the name God gave himself, so logically it must be the same name, ‘YHWH’, since Jesus also says: ‘I was DEAD but am now alive forevermore’.
This is not a simple claim of immortality since all mankind who are made alive after judgement will also be immortal. Therefore the statement is a greater revelation which leads to a conclusion of ‘Never changing, immutability, Always Will be’: exactly what ‘YHWH’ means.

At this time there will be no dispute about who Jesus or God is so there won’t be need for explaining why there are two ‘YHWH’s. In fact, those in the new life will only be dealing with Jesus Christ as their ‘God over creation’.
Think of it as a CEO of a company handing total control over to an appointed chairman. No staff members thereafter reports to the CEO but only to the Chairman. I don’t know if you watched ‘The Godfather’ films where the Godfather hands over the management of his empire to the son of his love, Michael, and then deflects all enquiries from the caporegimes and lawyer back to Michael.

 

[Soapy]

I don't necessarily disagree with that meaning for Joshua son of Nun.

I hear you. There is a caveat. There there remain wild beasts and stinging bees in the Israel of scripture. These are mentioned in Kings, such as when some children are attacked by a bear. If there are wild beasts then the people have not fully attained peace. (Lev 26:6) In addition some Israelites of a doomed generation are told "You shall never enter my rest." (Deut 1:35). The history of Israel is fraught with invasions, too, and exiles. It is like some are still wandering the wilderness even after they officially enter their land. This point about Joshua not leading Israel into rest is a point of contention raised by the author of Hebrews chapter 4. Its not a very clear or strong point, but it is canon.

I will allow that Joshua might also be considered YHWH. All I'm saying is that the angel calls Jesus this name in Matthew 1. It is called The Name, and the people are called by that name. There are plenty of indications that it functions like a family name.

I am not understanding you. There is no earthly example that perfectly reflects God’s acts. Even Joseph seated in place of Pharoah bring the famine to rights (Jesus seated as God bringing the world to rights!) eventually gave back the position to Pharoah - as Jesus gave back the rulership to God - died some time later. Jesus will never die afterwards. You must only read prophesy up to such and such a point!

But as for Jesus being called ‘YHWH’… I do not see that in any way. Can you show the exact verse rather than present the whole chapter. Thanks.

 

[Soapy]

When Jesus came 2000 years ago He did not come to judge the world as you say (John 12:47) but when Jesus returns to earth it is He who will be judging the earth and raising the dead.
Surely you must have wondered what Jesus meant when He said that all judgement has been given to Him, or did you think that Jesus was lying or that it was one of those verses that trinitarians have added to the Bible to fool everyone.
So the verses below show Jesus is YHWH.

John 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Psalm 96:12 Let the fields exult, and all that is in them. Then all the trees of the forest will sing for joy 13 before the YHWH, for He is coming— He is coming to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in His faithfulness.

Brian2, you are a tempter.

 

[Soapy]

Ok - I know your a little upset and nervous - - understandably so - but do check who you are addressing since I’m not @Brian2

Ok, thanks. I really hope you are not [a] Brian2 since I wouldn’t want to have to be replying with the same responses to the same purposely fallacious presentations.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I am not understanding you. There is no earthly example that perfectly reflects God’s acts. Even Joseph seated in place of Pharoah bring the famine to rights (Jesus seated as God bringing the world to rights!) eventually gave back the position to Pharoah - as Jesus gave back the rulership to God - died some time later. Jesus will never die afterwards. You must only read prophesy up to such and such a point!

But as for Jesus being called ‘YHWH’… I do not see that in any way. Can you show the exact verse rather than present the whole chapter. Thanks.

Matthew 1:21 from my original reply to you on page 1.

Ok. This is not hard, and you may disagree if you like. Nobody says we all must agree upon trivial details or be equally knowledgable.

[Mat 1:21 NIV] 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."​

When Matthew uses "Because he will save his people from their sins" he is identifying Jesus with The Acrostic YHWH. First of all whose people are they? Who can save them from their sins? They are not Moses people, not David's people, not even Abraham's people. No, they are The LORD's people, as-in belonging to. Secondly what does Jesus name mean, and what is the significance of him being called it?

First:
[2Ch 20:9 NIV] 9 'If calamity comes upon us, whether the sword of judgment, or plague or famine, we will stand in your presence before this temple that bears your Name and will cry out to you in our distress, and you will hear us and save us.'
[Psa 106:47 NIV] 47 Save us, LORD our God, and gather us from the nations, that we may give thanks to your holy name and glory in your praise.
[Psa 116:4 NIV] 4 Then I called on the name of the LORD: "LORD, save me!"
[Mat 1:21 NIV] 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

"The LORD" or YHWH as it is often put is the only one who can save the people from their sins, and Matthew says Jesus will do what only YHWH can do (is what the angel from heaven is telling Jesus human parents).

The angel also goes further in naming him after Joshua servant of Moses and saying why. That leads us to the second item.

Second:
They named Jesus after JoshuaJoshua's original name was Hoshea, but Moses changed it to Joshua. We transliterate these, but the name was originally 'Saviour' and was changed to 'YHWH is the Saviour'. This, one of the few names ever explained in canon, was then the name for Jesus. Hence, Matthew is telling us that he is YHWH. By name.​

 

[Brickjectivity]

But as for Jesus being called ‘YHWH’… I do not see that in any way.

I understand that you do not.

I am not understanding you. There is no earthly example that perfectly reflects God’s acts. Even Joseph seated in place of Pharoah bring the famine to rights (Jesus seated as God bringing the world to rights!) eventually gave back the position to Pharoah - as Jesus gave back the rulership to God - died some time later. Jesus will never die afterwards. You must only read prophesy up to such and such a point!

Soapy, I'm not attempting to confound you. I've answered the challenge of the OP: to present a verse which calls Jesus 'YHWH' -- whatever it means and whatever the significance is. Matthew 1:21 does so by explaining the savior's name, why he is named it. I bring forward the translation of the name. I also refer us to Numbers 13:16 where this name is also given to the son of Nun as well as the translation of his previous name. It adds up to: Matthew 1:21 is saying Jesus is named "YHWH is saviour" because Jesus will save his people from their sins.

 

[Soapy]

Matthew 1:21 from my original reply to you on page 1.

Hmmm… Are you sure you have the right context for what you are saying?

Mordeciah (Book of Esther) saved the Jews on the day of Purim…

Joseph saved the people in the days if the famine in Egypt…

Moses saved the Israelites out of Egypt…

Joshua saved the Israelites into the promised land …

Jonah saved the Ninevites from destruction…

These (and more) are Saviours. But they are not YHWH… they are not God!

YHWH commanded and gave each the POWER, STRENGTH, TENACITY, AUTHORITY to do the saving. YHWH upheld them, blessed them, empowered them to do His Will.

YHWH likewise also EMPOWERED JESUS, Commanded him, strengthened him, blessed him… to do His Will.

 

[Soapy]

I understand that you do not.


Soapy, I'm not attempting to confound you. I've answered the challenge of the OP: to present a verse which calls Jesus 'YHWH' -- whatever it means and whatever the significance is. Matthew 1:21 does so by explaining the savior's name, why he is named it. I bring forward the translation of the name. I also refer us to Numbers 13:16 where this name is also given to the son of Nun as well as the translation of his previous name. It adds up to: Matthew 1:21 is saying Jesus is named "YHWH is saviour" because Jesus will save his people from their sins.

The Bible says that we should call on God to show those who are in error the right way.

That, I’m doing here: “May the God of truth bless you with His truth and turn you to the road of righteousness.”

Please ask another person if they think you are correct in your assumption that Matthew 1:21 is calling Jesus ‘YHWH’.

 

[stvdv]

Is there a scripture verse in the Bible where the son of God is called ‘YHWH’ by name?

I like below verse in the Bible from God:
"I Am Who I Am"

Coincidentally, or not, in the Hindu Scriptures God is also referred to as "I Am" or "Tat Twam Asi" (That I Am)

I think, that this is no coincidence, and as the saying goes "If it waggles like duck, quacks like a duck, swimms like a Duck then most probably it is a Duck". Well, and if it also has the name Duck then who will still deny it's a Duck.

What more proof one needs?
Christian God = Hindu God

Exodus 3:14
14God replied to Moses: I am who I am. Then he added: This is what you will tell the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you. 15God spoke further to Moses: This is what you will say to the Israelites: The LORD, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you
@stvdvRF

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I Am is Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH
At Psalms 110 in the King James are two (2) separate LORD/Lord's
The Tetragrammaton is only applied to the LORD in the ALL the Upper-Case letters
The Tetragrammaton is Not applied to the Lord printed in some lower-case letters.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....................Exodus 3:14
14God replied to Moses: I am who I am. Then he added: This is what you will tell the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you. 15God spoke further to Moses: This is what you will say to the Israelites: The LORD, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to youstvdvRF

I notice ^ above^ that the word LORD is printed in ALL Upper-Case letters.
That is because the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was replaced in the King James as LORD.
Exodus 3:15 God's name forever (Psalms 135:13) is from the Tetragrammaton YHWH and Not from any title.
- Psalms 83:18 B - old King James in English states God's name Not His title.