Why do you come here? (To atheists)

[tumbleweed41]

* Edited out * . Read it again. Countless users of DMT have reported going to the same realm and having the same spiritual encounter. LSD will make you see anything from trolls to leprechauns. But never has it sent hundreds of people to the same place with the same details of their visuals. Pretty weird, if you read it without trying to prove you're smarter than it.

Source?
Objective evidence?




(BTW, name calling is usually a sign of weakened defense. You might want to change tactics.)

 

[tumbleweed41]

To prevent further derailing of this thread,

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ogenics-religious-experience.html#post2310267

 

[EddyM]

So what does this appeal to emotion have anything to do with truth or reality?

Emotions are by far the most distinctly sentient organic thing. They are both useful and can be a barrier to productivity. Emotions come in many ranges. I think this is a question where the answers can be either yes or no. Because it depends on the emotion that is involved.

No matter how emotional I get about denying a fact, the fact wont change just because of my emotions. That would be adamance.

Intense devotionalism requires sincerity and atleast some understanding. This can help mellow down a person and ease or compel them in connecting with the person the devotionalism is dedicated to.

So if God is "true", then whatever may help bring awareness of God in anyway positively would be a valid thing perhaps.

 

[SnifferOuter77]

Oh you crazy kiddos(hope that doesn't qualify as name-calling for the little ears here), you speak of hallucinogens as if you actually know a thing about them. My bet is that about 99% of you don't even know that when an animal is sacrificed, the fumes coming off of the fresh burning flesh and fat is hallucinogenic when breathed as well. They didn't just sit there roasting marshmellows over the lil critter, they experienced visions and euphoria.
Speaking of animals, Tumbleweed believes animals have some fraction of moral fiber... no he really does. Then people wonder why their dog or cat leaves a torn up dead squirrel on the porch. I guess if you find me next to some mangled bloodied-up toddler you'd say I was just havin fun too right? Yeah, you know why? Cause you n me baby ain't nothin but mammals uh uh you know the rest.

 

[Autodidact]

Sniffer: Can you possibly discuss something or share information without the smarmy self-satisfied smug superiority and insults to the rest of us? It's quite annoying. Or do you really believe you're smarter than everyone here?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Speaking of animals, Tumbleweed believes animals have some fraction of moral fiber... no he really does. Then people wonder why their dog or cat leaves a torn up dead squirrel on the porch. I guess if you find me next to some mangled bloodied-up toddler you'd say I was just havin fun too right? Yeah, you know why? Cause you n me baby ain't nothin but mammals uh uh you know the rest.

I would suggest you study up a bit on moral philosophy, societal evolution, and ethical responses in higher mammals before making such uneducated remarks.
And a little knowledge of animal behavior patterns wouldn't hurt either.

 

[SnifferOuter77]

Sniffer: Can you possibly discuss something or share information without the smarmy self-satisfied smug superiority and insults to the rest of us? It's quite annoying. Or do you really believe you're smarter than everyone here?

If you read this thread and I'm the only smart *** you find defending their point, then all that does is show what side of the argument you're on. Grow up smarty-pants.
I now grant you full permission to scroll past my posts and replies without even glancing at them. You're welcome

 

[SnifferOuter77]

I would suggest you study up a bit on moral philosophy, societal evolution, and ethical responses in higher mammals before making such uneducated remarks.
And a little knowledge of animal behavior patterns wouldn't hurt either.

Animals high and low(even your precious primates) have brains whose cerebral cortex is much less complex than that of a human. I'm done arguing with you on animal morals dude, last time any animal had a thought was in your dreams, and that's where it'll stay.

 

[Autodidact]

Actually, if you refuse to abide by our courtesy rules, I think I'd rather report you to the mods.

 

[SnifferOuter77]

Actually, if you refuse to abide by our courtesy rules, I think I'd rather report you to the mods.

Don't be a taddle-tale you're a big boy you can handle this without the mods having to intervene for you. The mods have already edited out the parts they wanted to edit out, my point still stands. I'm not breaking any rules here. Besides, for all you know I'm just some fat geek drooling behind a computer screen hoping to boost my self-esteem by winning some arguments... who cares what I think right?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Animals high and low(even your precious primates) have brains whose cerebral cortex is much less complex than that of a human. I'm done arguing with you on animal morals dude, last time any animal had a thought was in your dreams, and that's where it'll stay.

Actually, the complex and folded neo-cortex is nearly identical in all primates, including humans, and also in larger mammals.
Anthropologists have found a correlation between the ratio of the size of the neocortex in relation to the rest of the brain, and social grouping size and behavior.

 

[McBell]

... hoping to boost my self-esteem by winning some arguments....

You seem to be failing at this.
Well, except in your own mind.

 

[SnifferOuter77]

Animals don't have morals. They have a consciousness that cannot be heightened past a certain point, which is why nobody's amazed by animal tricks anymore. Yes you can get a monkey to do a bit of sign language, you still can't hold a full conversation with it. It can only respond to handsigns it's been trained to know, with handsigns it's been trained to do. Anything further is your imagination. Now go grab you a salad.

 

[SnifferOuter77]

Ha hey Mestemia that was funny! I can do that too...

Got my 2 cents in, and boy do I feel accomplished!

Sorry I may have messed up your words a bit :/ oops.

 

[Penumbra]

Some do, doubtless. But that is almost an accident, and certainly not needed.

There are some based entirely around gods.

Am I? It seems to me that the wide net is the one that attempts to reduce every religion to belief in deities instead.

Can you show me where I've attempted to reduce every religion to belief in deities?

I never denied that belief in Gods exists in non-Abrahamic faiths. But it is hardly necessary, and in fact often quite deleterious to religious practice.

That's your specific view of them. That umbrella of religions is extremely vast with all sorts of religious practice.

And for the ones that don't include gods, atheism is a valuable definition.

Point taken. I tend to over-value the forms that I find most worthy.

Not in Dharmic, and not particularly so in many other non-Abrahamic faiths, no they don't.

How can you possibly say that atheism and theism aren't valuable concepts in Dharmic religions?

It does, because our culture used the Abrahamic understanding of deity as a basis for the concept of Atheism. It doesn't make as much sense without an Abrahamic frame of reference.

I think you're putting way too much weight on the Abrahamic frame of reference.

That is a defense of faith, not necessarily of belief, much less of belief in the existence of any concept of God. "God" may easily, and arguably most naturally, be a metaphor or an artistic concept in that passage.

How can faith and belief be separated?

And this again is a form of idealization.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Animals don't have morals. They have a consciousness that cannot be heightened past a certain point, which is why nobody's amazed by animal tricks anymore. Yes you can get a monkey to do a bit of sign language, you still can't hold a full conversation with it. It can only respond to handsigns it's been trained to know, with handsigns it's been trained to do. Anything further is your imagination. Now go grab you a salad.

Despite your assertions, ethical social behavior has been observed, tested, and verified in many social mammals.

(And sign language has no bearing on ethical behavior)

 

[McBell]

Animals don't have morals.

Please present your definition of "morals".

They have a consciousness that cannot be heightened past a certain point, which is why nobody's amazed by animal tricks anymore.

What?
You mean your miracle drug cannot help them?
What a useless thing it must be.

Yes you can get a monkey to do a bit of sign language, you still can't hold a full conversation with it. It can only respond to handsigns it's been trained to know, with handsigns it's been trained to do. Anything further is your imagination.

And you can support this with something other than your own claims, right?

 

[McBell]

Ha hey Mestemia that was funny! I can do that too...

Sorry I may have messed up your words a bit :/ oops.

That's it?
Rather disappointing it is.
I mean, I expected so much better from someone who is so superior.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Animals don't have morals.

How woukd you know? Can you present any scientific data that backs up this assertion?

They have a consciousness that cannot be heightened past a certain point, which is why nobody's amazed by animal tricks anymore. Yes you can get a monkey to do a bit of sign language, you still can't hold a full conversation with it. It can only respond to handsigns it's been trained to know, with handsigns it's been trained to do. Anything further is your imagination. Now go grab you a salad.

They don't sound that much different than the rest of us primates.....How about some scientific evidence for your claims...?

 

[waitasec]

Animals don't have morals. They have a consciousness that cannot be heightened past a certain point, which is why nobody's amazed by animal tricks anymore. Yes you can get a monkey to do a bit of sign language, you still can't hold a full conversation with it. It can only respond to handsigns it's been trained to know, with handsigns it's been trained to do. Anything further is your imagination. Now go grab you a salad.

i'll ask again, do you consider empathy as an attribute of morality?

Experiments with rhesus monkeys would prove that the evolution of empathy is a very long one. These little monkeys were given the option of doubling their food source while simultaneously shocking their fellow monkeys, or eating half as much and letting their friends live an electricity-free existence. Using a system of chains, batteries, and automatic food dispensers, the experimenters found that two-thirds of the monkeys preferred the empathetic less-food option. In a few cases, these monkeys were even starving themselves to avoid hurting their little buddies. They were also less likely to shock another monkey if they had experienced a shock themselves, and were less likely to shock any monkey they knew, although they might not be so kind if one of the scientists were thrown into the cage.

Empathy is fundamental to any species that raise their young. As it turns out, the right brain is critical in early childhood development, and is dominant during the first three years of life, until the left brain has its growth spurt and becomes dominant as the child develops its language capabilities. The first few years are a right-brained wonderland between mother and child, as non-verbal communication is vital. The right brain's gift for emotional recognition and communication is well suited for mothering. The irritating nonsense words uttered by parents to their infant children during this stage are a product of the right brain. The right brain makes a mess out of the English language.

Conservative Left Brain, Liberal Right Brain