Why do you say" you have to prove your personal faith and beliefs"

[Spirit of Light]

Whenever you publicly make claims / express beliefs, you should expect such answers.
Not just on RF but in all situations.

If you don't wish your beliefs to be questioned and met with scrutiny, then keep them to yourself.

I don't mind people asking questions but when someone commenting with similar to " You don't know what you believe because you can not physically or scientifically prove it" I can actually answer back and say, to you it may not be truth but I believe in the scripture and it is my personal beliefs that what I believe in is right for me. That's why I answer it does not matter what a non-believer say about my belief, it's a personal belief. And if you don't like it, that's not my problem.

 

[blü 2]

I don't know that there are facts. Remember that I am global skeptic. I can talk about the idea of facts like the idea of God. But I don't know anything about either other than they are ideas.

Is that a fact?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is that a fact?

No, it is a belief that apparently works for me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't mind people asking questions but when someone commenting with similar to " You don't know what you believe because you can not physically or scientifically prove it" I can actually answer back and say, to you it may not be truth but I believe in the scripture and it is my personal beliefs that what I believe in is right for me. That's why I answer it does not matter what a non-believer say about my belief, it's a personal belief. And if you don't like it, that's not my problem.

Sure.

And the same goes for me.

You are free to point out your beliefs.
I am free to point out how I think those beliefs are ridiculous and / or baseless.

Again, if you don't like that, perhaps don't share your beliefs?

Whenever you put your beliefs in public, people will respond in whatever way the see fit.
They are free to do that. Just like you are free to share your beliefs.

It's a two-way street.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sure.

And the same goes for me.

You are free to point out your beliefs.
I am free to point out how I think those beliefs are ridiculous and / or baseless.

Do you have evidence for this or are those your opinions/beliefs?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sure.

And the same goes for me.

You are free to point out your beliefs.
I am free to point out how I think those beliefs are ridiculous and / or baseless.

Again, if you don't like that, perhaps don't share your beliefs?

Whenever you put your beliefs in public, people will respond in whatever way the see fit.
They are free to do that. Just like you are free to share your beliefs.

It's a two-way street.

Yes you are free to reply, and to ask question, but trying to offend anyone who believe in a God. No that you are not free to do in a forum.

 

[blü 2]

No, it is a belief that apparently works for me.

Like being alive? Or do you think you're not?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Like being alive? Or do you think you're not?

Well, I do believe it. But I don't believe in your version of axioms. I have my own and they only overlap in some cases. That is it.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Sure.

And the same goes for me.

You are free to point out your beliefs.
I am free to point out how I think those beliefs are ridiculous and / or baseless.

Again, if you don't like that, perhaps don't share your beliefs?

Whenever you put your beliefs in public, people will respond in whatever way the see fit.
They are free to do that. Just like you are free to share your beliefs.

It's a two-way street.

It’s indeed a two way street, and in most civilised societies people who meet in the street don’t barge each other out of the way because they are coming from opposite directions.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why do you say" you have to prove your personal faith and beliefs"

If you want me to believe them as you do... then you have no choice in the matter, really. Either produce the evidence, or move on, understanding that you cannot win me over.

If you aren't trying to convince me of the truth of your claims? Then you probably didn't start talking to me about in the first place. So why would I care? How would I even know what someone's beliefs were if they never tried to tell me about them? You can be darn sure I DIDN'T ASK! And that because I do not care. The only time I care is when someone goes about the business of claiming they are right, or making statements that indicate they believe themselves to be correct that also, by the nature of them, implicate me in being incorrect. Then I am going to pipe up... and ask that the demonstrate how they have come to know these things they are talking about.

Again... if they never talked about it... I wouldn't know anything at all about it... and would therefore have absolutely nothing to challenge. Religious types have a very, very hard time not talking about it, however, and an even harder time talking about it in such a way so as not to convey the blatant assumption they hold that their knowledge is "the truth."

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you want me to believe them as you do... then you have no choice in the matter, really. Either produce the evidence, or move on, understanding that you cannot win me over.

If you aren't trying to convince me of the truth of your claims? Then you probably didn't start talking to me about in the first place. So why would I care? How would I even know what someone's beliefs were if they never tried to tell me about them? You can be darn sure I DIDN'T ASK! And that because I do not care. The only time I care is when someone goes about the business of claiming they are right, or making statements that indicate they believe themselves to be correct that also, by the nature of them, implicate me in being incorrect. Then I am going to pipe up... and ask that the demonstrate how they have come to know these things they are talking about.

Again... if they never talked about it... I wouldn't know anything at all about it... and would therefore have absolutely nothing to challenge. Religious types have a very, very hard time not talking about it, however, and an even harder time talking about it in such a way so as not to convey the blatant assumption they hold that their knowledge is "the truth."

Well, you can also find that with philosophy and politics, That is not unique to religion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If you want me to believe them as you do... then you have no choice in the matter, really. Either produce the evidence, or move on, understanding that you cannot win me over.

If you aren't trying to convince me of the truth of your claims? Then you probably didn't start talking to me about in the first place. So why would I care? How would I even know what someone's beliefs were if they never tried to tell me about them? You can be darn sure I DIDN'T ASK! And that because I do not care. The only time I care is when someone goes about the business of claiming they are right, or making statements that indicate they believe themselves to be correct that also, by the nature of them, implicate me in being incorrect. Then I am going to pipe up... and ask that the demonstrate how they have come to know these things they are talking about.

Again... if they never talked about it... I wouldn't know anything at all about it... and would therefore have absolutely nothing to challenge. Religious types have a very, very hard time not talking about it, however, and an even harder time talking about it in such a way so as not to convey the blatant assumption they hold that their knowledge is "the truth."

When I write a new OP, in my mind i asking believers, waiting mostly for their answer and thoughts, that some few non-believers chose to come with a a attack or silly coment, that is their choice, does not seem like those few non-believers are interested in any form for dialog, only to make fun of believers.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Why should someone have to prove to you that "their belief" is right for them. It is a personal belief in a religious faith they hold. Who are you to say they are wrong, or it is not logical to believe as they do, because YOU don't believe what they do.

Who are you to tell a faithful believer that their belief is wrong, because there is no "evidence" that YOU accept to be true?

It is not your belief/disbelief, but if the faithful believer has all the personal evidence that their belief is right for them.

Who are you to tell them it is not?
The believer has the proof they need personally to hold their faithful belief in what ever religious faith they follow. They do not have to prove it to anybody.

You can ask: why do you believe so or so, and what ever the answer you get that is why that person believe what they do. You do not have the right to say "your belief is wrong" just because you disagree. Accept that people believe and walk away.

And yes I know your attack will come...who cares anyway????

I don't... unless people are posting their beliefs on a forum such as this, in which case they have opened themselves up to questions and clarification. If a person doesn't want to have his or her beliefs questioned then I'd assume that they wouldn't be posting them on a public discussion site such as this.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't... unless people are posting their beliefs on a forum such as this, in which case they have opened themselves up to questions and clarification. If a person doesn't want to have his or her beliefs questioned then I'd assume that they wouldn't be posting them on a public discussion site such as this.

So are you questioning any beliefs as such, including one that acknowledge that is not a claim of evidence ,proof, truth and what not?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't... unless people are posting their beliefs on a forum such as this, in which case they have opened themselves up to questions and clarification. If a person doesn't want to have his or her beliefs questioned then I'd assume that they wouldn't be posting them on a public discussion site such as this.

As I said, asking good quality question to learn why the believer believe what they do. No problem at all.
But when it is framed to fully indicate "YOU are wrong, because I don't believe in a God" then the interaction between the believer and the non-believer has no value at all.

 

[Sheldon]

I've never really understood why so many outspoken and militant atheists frequent religion discussion boards. They certainly don't seem to have any serious interest in or openness towards the subject of religion. Their attitude towards religious people on the boards is too often open hostility.

Sometimes it seems to me like some of them look at RF and similar boards as if they are video-games, where their goal is to shoot down as many "religious idiots" as possible and run up the score. The payoff for them seems to be a (perhaps illusory) feeling of their own intellectual superiority.

As for me, I'm an agnostic which I take to be something very different than an atheist (despite the recent attempts on the part of atheists to collapse the distinction). I'm not motivated by hostility towards religion and by contempt for religious people. I've always felt a strong sense of the transcendent and been something of a "seeker" I guess. I sense deep and fundamental mysteries wherever I turn. That's what's motivated my lifelong interest in philosophy I guess, even though I have little expectation that I will ever arrive at the answers.

I don't perceive religion or religious people as paper targets for me to cut down with arrogant gunfire. I see them as fellow travelers on their own paths, intelligent and perceptive people who may or may not have something valuable to offer me on mine. So I'm inclined to take them and their beliefs seriously, even when I'm not motivated to share them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So here is one for you to have fun with.

There is no positive evidence for a creator god and such a claim is at present not falsifiable and therefore a positive belief without a claim of evidence in a creator god is meaningless.
What do you think of that?

 

[Valjean]

But when it is framed to fully indicate "YOU are wrong, because I don't believe in a God" then the interaction between the believer and the non-believer has no value at all.

Whoever framed such a statement? "You're wrong because I don't agree with you?" It makes no sense.

I do see -- and contributie to -- a lot of theistic questioning, but the questions generally concern evidence and the reasons for belief. These, it seems to me, would be "good quality questions."

My impression is, when confronted with a challenge they can't meet rationally, many theists feel bullied, threatened, or attacked.

 

[Sheldon]

So here is one for you to have fun with.

There is no positive evidence for a creator god and such a claim is at present not falsifiable and therefore a positive belief without a claim of evidence in a creator god is meaningless.
What do you think of that?

I think it is a list of assertions you have made, whilst ignoring my post again.

 

[Valjean]

So here is one for you to have fun with.

There is no positive evidence for a creator god and such a claim is at present not falsifiable and therefore a positive belief without a claim of evidence in a creator god is meaningless.
What do you think of that?

Maybe not meaningless. Perhaps irrational, unreasonable or delusional.