Why does baptism for the dead bother you?

[lunamoth]

I would not care if someone wanted to baptize me after I'm dead, but I can imagine situations where this could cause family problems. After a hundred years or so it is likely that a person has many many descendants, too many to ask them all what they think and try to get some kind of consensus about whether to baptize the long gone relative. If one branch of the family is for it, but others are not, I could see this causing bad feelings.

2 c,
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[rojse]

No, we don't baptize dead people.

If you do not baptize dead people, why are we having this argument?

Secondly, no matter what religious argument that you present for baptism, I do not belong to your religion, and I do not care what religious reasoning you present, any more than I care for the religious reasoning a Satanist or Pagan would represent for their own personal rituals.

Thirdly, what does baptism do for my eternal soul? I've already been condemned to hell regardless of being baptised or not, so what does it do for me?

All that dead person baptism does, in my opinion, is let you sleep better at night. It does nothing for me.

 

[Ozzie]

Are there other people who are bothered by the practice? Why?

Only that the job is already done. Isn't it the GrimReapers job to baptise the dead?

 

[Azakel]

Only that the job is already done. Isn't it the GrimReapers job to baptise the dead?

Yes it is and I take pride in it.

 

[jonny]

If you do not baptize dead people, why are we having this argument?

Secondly, no matter what religious argument that you present for baptism, I do not belong to your religion, and I do not care what religious reasoning you present, any more than I care for the religious reasoning a Satanist or Pagan would represent for their own personal rituals.

Thirdly, what does baptism do for my eternal soul? I've already been condemned to hell regardless of being baptised or not, so what does it do for me?

All that dead person baptism does, in my opinion, is let you sleep better at night. It does nothing for me.

You don't understand LDS doctrine. We don't baptised dead people and Mormonism doesn't condemn you to hell.

 

[Katzpur]

If you do not baptize dead people, why are we having this argument?

Oh, I see you read the post I directed you to. Great!

Secondly, no matter what religious argument that you present for baptism, I do not belong to your religion, and I do not care what religious reasoning you present, any more than I care for the religious reasoning a Satanist or Pagan would represent for their own personal ritual.

Thirdly, what does baptism do for my eternal soul? I've already been condemned to hell regardless of being baptised or not, so what does it do for me?

All that dead person baptism does, in my opinion, is let you sleep better at night. It does nothing for me.

Oh, I see you read the first sentence of the post and then stopped. You obviously are as much in the dark about the meaning of this doctrine as you ever were. So be it. I'm done with this nonsense. People who have no interest whatsoever in understanding why we do what we do aren't really worth the time it takes me to try to communicate with them. I never did expect you to agree with me, but your questions clearly tell me you either didn't read my post or made no effort at all to understand what I was saying. Maybe we'll have better luck discussing another topic down the road than has been the case this time around.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I dont see what the big deal is - before I became LDS - I had no issue with it. For atheists especially - you believe once you dead thats it - so why would it bother you? Im not trying to be funny - I just honestly dont see what the problem is - even with my belief put aside. The only way you can be bothered by it is to believe their is life after death. Secondly, for those who do believe in life after death - at the end of the day its upto the person who the proxy is for. If they dont want to accept the baptism, they dont have too. Its like if you recieved a cheque through the post as a gift - you dont have to accept it if you dont want too! So thats forcing the religion onto people out the way....

Next point.... We here on earth dont know what the afterlife is like... the souls of those who have passed do.... they know the truth for certain... its like the post I explained a few pages back regarding walking through a door.... I wont bore you with it again.... but anyway.... you could have relatives up there desperate to accept the gospel, but as we believe they need to be baptised, but noone down here will allow it... wouldnt it be better just to let some "nutcase", "strange idea" or however you feel continue with the proxy and allow the relative to accept or deny it for themselves... or go by the limited knowledge we have and not allow it and if we (LDS) are right.....

As for the post about the many relatives permission... I think it is only close relatives

Sorry if this post makes no sense- I have just got back from a 12hr shift!

 

[rojse]

I did try read your post. I apologise for having presented any other view of this. I am merely not well versed on religious matters, and the knowledge level you assumed for readers of it was far too high for me. No one's fault that I could not understand it but mine.

What I should, with slightly more elegance, have said is that you should try and respect the wishes of those that do not belong to your church group. I have explicitly stated I do not wish to be baptized by your church, or by any other church or religious group than what I have previously received. I fail to understand why you would wish to go against my wishes. Perhaps the answer to this question is hidden deep within the thread you presented to me, but I cannot understand it yet. As I have said before, my knowledge of religion is not to the level required to understand your thread.

Again, apologies for any offense that I may have caused.

 

[rojse]

What I do not like is that you are fostering on different ideals and labels onto those that are not with us any more. I do not want any associations with religions that I did not have while I was alive, just the same as I would not want any associations with any products or any businesses that I did not have when I was alive. I don't want to be baptised by LDS when I die, just the same as I don't want my image or face trying selling vacuum cleaners, or food, or anything else for that matter. It is an extremely crude comparison, but I lack the eloquence to express it better.

I would like to ask in return, what does my baptism for LDS, or any other church, for that matter, does for you personally, or your religion in general?

 

[Booko]

I dont see what the big deal is - before I became LDS - I had no issue with it. For atheists especially - you believe once you dead thats it - so why would it bother you? Im not trying to be funny - I just honestly dont see what the problem is - even with my belief put aside.

I may have just had an epiphany here. I was thinking back to when I was an atheist, if I had died, my mother surely would have put a gravestone over me with a cross on it.

And I would be royally *@YTssed.

 

[Katzpur]

I did try read your post. I apologise for having presented any other view of this. I am merely not well versed on religious matters, and the knowledge level you assumed for readers of it was far too high for me. No one's fault that I could not understand it but mine.

If that's the case, then I owe you an apology. I seriously considered my post to be pretty basic, but I probably was writing it under the assumption that my readers would be coming from a Christian background or at least have a fairly basic knowledge of Christianity. The fact that you don't would explain why you found it to be over your head.

 

[jonny]

Why is it that Baptism for the Dead gets all the heat? These are not the only ordinances that we perform for dead people in the temple. Before someone has their temple work done they have to
1. Be Baptised
2. Be Confirmed
3. Recieve the priesthood (men)
4. Recieve their endowment
5. Be sealed to their parents for eternity
6. Be sealed to their spouse for eternity

#5 and #6 are the real focus of the temple. Baptism is just a preparation so that members of a family can be sealed together for eternity. Are these other things not as controversial because people don't know about them or because people take their baptism more seriously than they do their marriage?

 

[Katzpur]

Why is it that Baptism for the Dead gets all the heat? These are not the only ordinances that we perform for dead people in the temple. Before someone has their temple work done they have to
1. Be Baptised
2. Be Confirmed
3. Recieve the priesthood (men)
4. Recieve their endowment
5. Be sealed to their parents for eternity
6. Be sealed to their spouse for eternity

#5 and #6 are the real focus of the temple. Baptism is just a preparation so that members of a family can be sealed together for eternity. Are these other things not as controversial because people don't know about them or because people take their baptism more seriously than they do their marriage?

I'd never stopped to think about that. Imagine all of the avowed atheists who are now Mormon priests. :biglaugh: Of course it doesn't work that way, but like you say, nobody seems to get all that worked up over anything except the baptism.

 

[Aqualung]

Why is it that Baptism for the Dead gets all the heat? These are not the only ordinances that we perform for dead people in the temple. Before someone has their temple work done they have to
1. Be Baptised
2. Be Confirmed
3. Recieve the priesthood (men)
4. Recieve their endowment
5. Be sealed to their parents for eternity
6. Be sealed to their spouse for eternity

#5 and #6 are the real focus of the temple. Baptism is just a preparation so that members of a family can be sealed together for eternity. Are these other things not as controversial because people don't know about them or because people take their baptism more seriously than they do their marriage?

Baptism for the dead is a gateway ordinance. Like how drug programs focus more heavily on marijuana.

 

[Buttercup]

I may have just had an epiphany here. I was thinking back to when I was an atheist, if I had died, my mother surely would have put a gravestone over me with a cross on it.

And I would be royally *@YTssed.

You would be mad now or you would have been mad then?

 

[nutshell]

Why is it that Baptism for the Dead gets all the heat?

Because those who dislike the mormon practice are not familiar with or do not understand the ordinances. Baptism is more universal, making it more accessible to their understanding.

 

[gnomon]

I can understand why some people might be upset (it's essentially the whole your religion is wrong ours is right penile measuring bit) but as far as I'm concerned baptize away when I'm dead.

Hell, you can scoop me out of the ground and throw me in a pool for all I care. Of course if my plans for a post-life interstellar travel in cosmic Goodyear blimp is realized then you'll just have to do it ... however it is you do it.

 

[Blindinglight]

Of course it doesn't work that way, but like you say, nobody seems to get all that worked up over anything except the baptism. __________________

I didn't know there was anything esle than that. But, my last wishes remain the same. Just leave my name out of any religious rite, and I'll be happy.

 

[DeepShadow]

I'm starting to wonder. People are confused over me not wanting my name wrote down in a book, pdf, text file, or whatever the LDS keep the names of post-mortum baptisms on, but no one has asked why the Jews have thrown some very large fits over it.

Simply put, I DO NOT want my name associated with any religion, now or when I'm dead. I don't see that as a very complicated final request.

By that definition, your name has probably already been "associated" with many religions, and will be associeated with more after you die. Are you going to hunt down all the religious people you meet and ask them not to pray for you? Many write lists of people they pray for, y'know, and they don't even ask the people's permission! All the churches that do demographic surveys and make sure your name is not on them? Are you going to reject sales from children's groups sponsored by churches (cub/boy/girl scouts, walkathons for cancer down's syndrone, etc) so that your name doesn't get on the rolls? Are you going to leave it in your will not to have church youth groups visit your grave and leave flowers when they are leaving flowers on all the rest?

Just hink of it, your name might be in some church's text file right now...you need to go find them and get it removed!

It's been called a straw-man fallacy when others have pointed out that this doesn't make you a Mormon. Fine. The validity of having your name on our lists somewhere is the same as any of the above. If you are prepared to deal with that, be my guest, but don't fault us when we find your request to be extreme, because it is. It's a lot more extreme than having a "no missionary" sign on your door, or even wearing one on your chest.

 

[DeepShadow]

I didn't know there was anything esle than that. But, my last wishes remain the same. Just leave my name out of any religious rite, and I'll be happy.

Putting flowers on graves is a religious rite. So is praying. Good luck getting these stopped.