Why Does Being Diverse Make you Special?

[Revoltingest]

Which whites are made to feel that way?
I am white. I don't feel guilty about the plight of minorities.

To make others feel guilty can serve a group's sense of victimhood, which is valuable currency these days. Where would Jesse
Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan be without a continual racial plight to exploit?
To think of oneself as a victim can also justify lack of success. I recall working at Black & Decker in Towson MD many decades ago.
I carpooled with "M", who also worked there. Only twice did she show up on time. Usually, I left without her & drove separately.
Typically, she would roll in an hour late for work. She complained that B&D discriminated against blacks, & that was why she didn't
advance there. She also expressed amazement that there were white folk who weren't millionaires, since we ran the show & all had
it so easy in life. She must have found it useful to not be responsible for lackluster career.

However, I do accept that white people have often been the cause of minority suffering and that it is our responsibility as citizens to try and ensure the wrongs of the past are not repeated.

Of course, history is what it is, but it was perpetrated by others, not by any of us. You don't incur liability just by being the same color,
religion, nationality or gender as some perpetrator from the past. So the burden of avoiding past wrongs falls upon us all.

 

[Cassiopia]

To make others feel guilty can serve a group's sense of victimhood, which is valuable currency these days. Where would Jesse
Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan be without a continual racial plight to exploit?
To think of oneself as a victim can also justify lack of success. I recall working at Black & Decker in Towson MD many decades ago.
I carpooled with "M", who also worked there. Only twice did she show up on time. Usually, I left without her & drove separately.
Typically, she would roll in an hour late for work. She complained that B&D discriminated against blacks, & that was why she didn't
advance there. She also expressed amazement that there were white folk who weren't millionaires, since we ran the show & all had
it so easy in life. She must have found it useful to not be responsible for lackluster career.

Yes and white people come up with all sorts of excuses (including racism) to justify their own lack of achievement too.
There are lazy blacks. There are lazy gays. There are lazy WASPs. What is your point really?

Of course, history is what it is, but it was perpetrated by others, not by any of us. You don't incur liability just by being the same color,
religion, nationality or gender as some perpetrator from the past. So the burden of avoiding past wrongs falls upon us all.

History is only one aspect under discussion here.
The point you seem bent on avoiding is that many minorities are being disadvantaged NOW.
It is one thing to say well it is not my problem and I don't care, but it is another thing to criticize those who do care and who are trying in various ways to rectify the situation.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

To make others feel guilty can serve a group's sense of victimhood, which is valuable currency these days. Where would Jesse
Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan be without a continual racial plight to exploit?
To think of oneself as a victim can also justify lack of success. I recall working at Black & Decker in Towson MD many decades ago.
I carpooled with "M", who also worked there. Only twice did she show up on time. Usually, I left without her & drove separately.
Typically, she would roll in an hour late for work. She complained that B&D discriminated against blacks, & that was why she didn't
advance there. She also expressed amazement that there were white folk who weren't millionaires, since we ran the show & all had
it so easy in life. She must have found it useful to not be responsible for lackluster career.

Of course, history is what it is, but it was perpetrated by others, not by any of us. You don't incur liability just by being the same color,
religion, nationality or gender as some perpetrator from the past. So the burden of avoiding past wrongs falls upon us all.

Discrimination DOES happen, though, Rev. Since you offered a personal anecdote, let me offer mine.

I was to play the part of Puck in a local dance company's version of Midsummers Nights Dream. This dance company was (and is) very well known for it's staging of the show, and it is a huge draw and has been for 20 years. I auditioned for the role and got it. The show was to be staged in 2 months.

A couple of weeks later, I discovered I was pregnant.

I tried to hide my pregnancy, for fear of getting canned, but I was discovered after the director overheard a couple of conversations.

I came to every rehearsal, in spite of the unending nausea and vomiting, for about 3 weeks. One day, I came in to rehearsal, and I saw somebody learning my part. I thought it was my understudy, so I asked.

The director, in front of everybody, said, "No, Heather. She's got the part now. Go home. We don't want a pregnant Puck running around on stage."

I was stunned, mortified, and furious. I asked if we could talk about whether there was anything I could fix, or anything we could work out. And that if we could talk in private.

She said, "Nope. Everybody knows you're pregnant anyway. And there's nothing we can do because of that."

Nothing about my health or the health of the fetus.

Nothing about how Puck's costume won't fit (I would still be in my first trimester by opening night)

Nothing about how they're worried I'll throw up on stage, have a miscarriage, yadda yadda yadda.....nope. It was simply because they "didn't want a pregnant Puck running around on stage."

The point is that discrimination DOES happen. Sure, I've seen people of all stripes blame others for their own bad behavior. But to turn a blind eye to discrimination in the workplace only perpetuates the problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

Discrimination DOES happen, though, Rev. Since you offered a personal anecdote, let me offer mine.

I don't dispute that. There are many aspects to the issue, & to expound upon one is not to deny the others.

I was to play the part of Puck in a local dance company's version of Midsummers Nights Dream. This dance company was (and is) very well known for it's staging of the show, and it is a huge draw and has been for 20 years. I auditioned for the role and got it. The show was to be staged in 2 months.
A couple of weeks later, I discovered I was pregnant.
I tried to hide my pregnancy, for fear of getting canned, but I was discovered after the director overheard a couple of conversations.
I came to every rehearsal, in spite of the unending nausea and vomiting, for about 3 weeks. One day, I came in to rehearsal, and I saw somebody learning my part. I thought it was my understudy, so I asked.
The director, in front of everybody, said, "No, Heather. She's got the part now. Go home. We don't want a pregnant Puck running around on stage."
I was stunned, mortified, and furious. I asked if we could talk about whether there was anything I could fix, or anything we could work out. And that if we could talk in private.
She said, "Nope. Everybody knows you're pregnant anyway. And there's nothing we can do because of that."
Nothing about my health or the health of the fetus.
Nothing about how Puck's costume won't fit (I would still be in my first trimester by opening night)
Nothing about how they're worried I'll throw up on stage, have a miscarriage, yadda yadda yadda.....nope. It was simply because they "didn't want a pregnant Puck running around on stage."
The point is that discrimination DOES happen. Sure, I've seen people of all stripes blame others for their own bad behavior. But to turn a blind eye to discrimination in the workplace only perpetuates the problem.

Presuming your condition wouldn't interfere with your performance, it certainly sounds wrong.
I once lost a job for the expressed reason that the university didn't want to hire a white male.
(That was legal at the time.) S*** happens. We cope. We fight it. And then more s*** happens.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes and white people come up with all sorts of excuses (including racism) to justify their own lack of achievement too.

Now, now....let's not accuse me of making excuses, especially since I've offered none, & my personal achievements haven't even been discussed.
I was illustrating a point about the downside of the victimhood mentality, which is difficult to get acknowledged. You seem to be making this entirely
about white vs black folk, & that one must be culpable, & the other defended. I see people more as individuals, who happen to have traits such a
race & gender. We all have strengths & flaws.

There are lazy blacks. There are lazy gays. There are lazy WASPs. What is your point really?

Read my prior post.

History is only one aspect under discussion here.
The point you seem bent on avoiding is that many minorities are being disadvantaged NOW.

I'm addressing the aspects of the discussion which interest me, as are you. This is not to deny other aspects.
You aren't avoiding my points are you, simply because you address others? Please try to not take this so personally,
& to make this so personal.

It is one thing to say well it is not my problem and I don't care, but it is another thing to criticize those who do care and who are trying in various ways to rectify the situation.

Your intent here is unclear. Do you imply that I'm criticizing & not caring?
If so, you read something which isn't there.

 

[Cassiopia]

To make others feel guilty can serve a group's sense of victimhood, which is valuable currency these days. Where would Jesse
Jackson, Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan be without a continual racial plight to exploit?
To think of oneself as a victim can also justify lack of success. I recall working at Black & Decker in Towson MD many decades ago.
I carpooled with "M", who also worked there. Only twice did she show up on time. Usually, I left without her & drove separately.
Typically, she would roll in an hour late for work. She complained that B&D discriminated against blacks, & that was why she didn't
advance there. She also expressed amazement that there were white folk who weren't millionaires, since we ran the show & all had
it so easy in life. She must have found it useful to not be responsible for lackluster career.

Of course, history is what it is, but it was perpetrated by others, not by any of us. You don't incur liability just by being the same color,
religion, nationality or gender as some perpetrator from the past. So the burden of avoiding past wrongs falls upon us all.

Yes and white people come up with all sorts of excuses (including racism) to justify their own lack of achievement too.
There are lazy blacks. There are lazy gays. There are lazy WASPs. What is your point really?


.

Now, now....let's not accuse me of making excuses, especially since I've offered none, & my personal achievements haven't even been discussed.
I was illustrating a point about the downside of the victimhood mentality, which is difficult to get acknowledged. You seem to be making this entirely
about white vs black folk, & that one must be culpable, & the other defended. I see people more as individuals, who happen to have traits such a
race & gender. We all have strengths & flaws.

I think you are being a bit mischievous here; ignoring my point by making out that it was some kind of personal attack. It wasn't and that is clear. I was not accusing you of making excuses. I was replying directly to the point in your post which you reiterated above. However rather than reading like an example of victimhood mentality (which could apply to a person of any race, color or sexuality) you seemed to be putting your former colleague forward more of a general example of how black people in particular are exploiting their predicament.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think you are being a bit mischievous here; ignoring my point by making out that it was some kind of personal attack.

That's how I saw it, & so I responded without mischief.

It wasn't and that is clear. I was not accusing you of making excuses.

You are correct. I re-read it, & see it now. (The "Yes" looked like a "You".)
I offer the lame excuse that a portion of my screen is going bad, & I cannot read it easily.
Monday it goes in for service.

But back to the issue of the problem of a culture of victimhood, I've nothing to add.

 

[Cassiopia]

That's how I saw it, & so I responded without mischief.

You are correct. I re-read it, & see it now. (The "Yes" looked like a "You".)
I offer the lame excuse that a portion of my screen is going bad, & I cannot read it easily.
Monday it goes in for service.

But back to the issue of the problem of a culture of victimhood, I've nothing to add.

Thanks. Good luck with the service!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I don't dispute that. There are many aspects to the issue, & to expound upon one is not to deny the others.

Presuming your condition wouldn't interfere with your performance, it certainly sounds wrong.
I once lost a job for the expressed reason that the university didn't want to hire a white male.
(That was legal at the time.) S*** happens. We cope. We fight it. And then more s*** happens.

Agreed.

 

[Nooj]

No need to be bi***y about it.

you don't need to be a sexist about it either.

 

[Revoltingest]

you don't need to be a sexist about it either.

I see your point, but I use it a a gender neutral term.

 

[Alceste]

Why not? I see no reason to continue to have pride days for minority groups if they are to be thoroughly integrated into the whole.

Then it must be a relief for you to finally be able to give up all your hard work organizing and attending public celebrations of minority culture.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Then it must be a relief for you to finally be able to give up all your hard work organizing and attending public celebrations of minority culture.

It's like herding cats, it is. :yes:

 

[Alceste]

No need to be bi***y about it.

You'd have to ask those who do take pride in being the race they are.
But my point was only about disparate treatment in acceptance of racial pride.

And many whites are made to feel undeservedly guilty for the plight of minorities.

The argument of obviousness is not convincing.
Perhaps I'm not the one misunderstanding the situation.

Undeservedly? Really?

Edit: To elaborate, nobody is MAKING you feel guilty, R. If you are feeling guilt, you've generated that all by yourself. All anybody else can do is put the crimes against humanity that have been perpetrated against them in front of our faces and say "LOOK! KNOW! BE AWARE!" What you do with that awareness is up to you entirely. It sounds like you're using that awareness to feel guilty and maybe a little resentful toward those who say "LOOK!" because if they didn't make such a stink about it, maybe you wouldn't be feeling guilty.

There are other things you can do with that awareness though - other ways you can process this horrific, troubling information without feeling ashamed of yourself. The easiest one is to stop seeing yourself as part of the same "tribe" that committed those crimes and start seeing yourself as a member of the human race. If you need a "tribe" you could join the multicultural, pan-religious tribe of "people who oppose discrimination, coercion and violence". Then you would likely identify with those who opposed slavery in the time of slavery, those who supported suffrage for women before they had it, those who did not support the genocide of indigenous people, etc.

You might be stuck with your gender and skin colour, but there is no need to identify with the philosophy of the knuckle-dragging, barbaric majority of people throughout history who happened to share these qualities with you.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Recently I have had a similar discussion at work and not surprisingly the question of "why do blacks need a black history month?" Or a "juneteenth?" Lucky for me, I have many educated African-American friends who educated me on the reason so in turn, from I know, I used that knowledge to respond to the question:

"Black history month as celebreated by millions of African-Americans, is a month of recognition of the 439 years of blacks being in captivity and the pioneers who paved the way for equality, not just for themselves but for all people of color. Black history month is American history, and apart of the social dynamics of what we see in American society."

No offense to anyone here of Caucasian descent but it seems whites have the biggest issue with multiculturalism. As I see in places like Denmark, United Kingdom there are always talks of immigrants acclimating to "their country." I even read in the Los Angeles times in the Oped, that UK was becoming "too ethnic." It seems conservatives especially those who strongly feel that an influx of immigrants will deteriorate society, why do they fear this so much? Then I hear that multiculturalism is called reverse racism..... No reverse racism upon whom? Whites? I see nothing wrong with a diverse society as a diverse society do-away with stereotypes and the inclusion of ideas different from mine can widen my knowledge and gives me more an in-depth approach about the world I exist in. Whether its the celebration of gay pride or Ramadan or Yom Kippor, I believe the different human cultures that encapsulate our lives is what builds our society.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Undeservedly? Really?



You might be stuck with your gender and skin colour, but there is no need to identify with the philosophy of the knuckle-dragging, barbaric majority of people throughout history who happened to share these qualities with you.

Which is why I identify with a white republican man. You know, the guy who abolished slavery? knuckle dragging, give me a break.

 

[Alceste]

Which is why I identify with a white republican man. You know, the guy who abolished slavery? knuckle dragging, give me a break.

Did you perhaps misunderstand my point? I was saying that, instead of identifying with the historical tribe of "white people", the majority of whom supported slavery, or at least apartheid, as well as the genocide of indigenous people, why not identify with "people who fought against injustice", a group which includes a great many people who happen to be of European descent, if not the majority?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Did you perhaps misunderstand my point? I was saying that, instead of identifying with the historical tribe of "white people", the majority of whom supported slavery, or at least apartheid, as well as the genocide of indigenous people, why not identify with "people who fought against injustice", a group which includes a great many people who happen to be of European descent, if not the majority?

I was just trying to point out that through out history there where white Southern Men who ran underground railroads, even fought their own family members to fight slavery.

White men where the majority that gave women the right to vote.

These champions of justice are always overlooked and lumped in with the knuckle draggers just as the black slave traders are always ignored.

It goes against the grain of demonising a whole group of people aka white guys.

Think about this for just one moment, when white land owners where the only people in power, how on earth could you not credit them for all the improvements that have happened through out history?

The focus has always been on the bad guys and demonising the whole group.

 

[Revoltingest]

No offense to anyone here of Caucasian descent but it seems whites have the biggest issue with multiculturalism.

No offense taken, but I'd say the Asian side of my family has at least as big a problem.

As I see in places like Denmark, United Kingdom there are always talks of immigrants acclimating to "their country." I even read in the Los Angeles times in the Oped, that UK was becoming "too ethnic." It seems conservatives especially those who strongly feel that an influx of immigrants will deteriorate society, why do they fear this so much? Then I hear that multiculturalism is called reverse racism..... No reverse racism upon whom? Whites? I see nothing wrong with a diverse society as a diverse society do-away with stereotypes and the inclusion of ideas different from mine can widen my knowledge and gives me more an in-depth approach about the world I exist in. Whether its the celebration of gay pride or Ramadan or Yom Kippor, I believe the different human cultures that encapsulate our lives is what builds our society.

Looking at Africa, we can see that black folk also have problems with influx of different peoples.
I don't think it's productive to argue which race is the worst. Human nature is universally prone to being awful.

 

[Revoltingest]

Undeservedly? Really?

Yes, really.

Edit: To elaborate, nobody is MAKING you feel guilty, R.

That must be why I don't feel guilty.
I bear full responsibility for what I do, but take non for the actions of others
who might merely share my race, gender, nationality, blood line or age.
People are individuals, even if they might be pigeon holed into some group.

You might be stuck with your gender and skin colour, but there is no need to identify with the philosophy of the knuckle-dragging, barbaric majority of people throughout history who happened to share these qualities with you.

Geeze, you sound angry.
I bear you no ill will.